Series Talk: WCSF: Colorado Avalanche (C3) vs Dallas Stars (C1) | Stars win 4-2

[Foppa2118]

So assuming there's no more injury, once Drouin and Kivi are back who get scratched? Wagner and Parise?

Wagner then Duhaime. Then Kivi when Landy gets back.

I like Duhaime's physicality, he hasn't been that impactful so far in the playoffs IMO. Parise's X factor potential for big goals is more important. They haven't been pushed around much up front, and they've got other big bodies in Trenin, Wood, Val, Mikko, and hopefully Gabe, though he may not play very physical when he gets back. You can put one or two on each line too.

These are the ideal lines IMO, but they can swap Mikko with Nuke if they want, or maybe even swap Landy with Lehky if he looks good. I think Art could help that 3rd line a lot too, in ways that LOC did, with his defense, and his hounding forecheck.

Drouin - MacK - Nuke
Lehky - Mitts - Mikko
Landy - Colton - Wood
Cogs - Trenin - Parise

 

[Balthazar]

Wagner then Duhaime. Then Kivi when Landy gets back.

I like Duhaime's physicality, he hasn't been that impactful so far in the playoffs IMO. Parise's X factor potential for big goals is more important. They haven't been pushed around much up front, and they've got other big bodies in Trenin, Wood, Val, Mikko, and hopefully Gabe, though he may not play very physical. You can put one or two on each line too.

These are the ideal lines IMO, but they can swap Mikko with Nuke if they want, or maybe even swap Landy with Lehky if he looks good. I think Art could help that 3rd line a lot too.

Drouin - MacK - Nuke
Lehky - Mitts - Mikko
Landy - Colton - Wood
Cogs - Trenin - Parise

There's no way Parise is more effective in a low minute, 4th line role than Duhaime.

Parise simply isn't a good bottom 6er.

 

[Foppa2118]

There's no way Parise is more effective in a low minute, 4th line role than Duhaime.

Parise simply isn't a good bottom 6er.

This sounds like something someone probably said about Daren Helm in the playoffs too. It's the playoffs. You don't take a guy like Parise out.

 

[Balthazar]

This sounds like something someone probably said about Daren Helm in the playoffs too.

Helm could still skate. All Parise has left is his hockey IQ and he isn't going to use it much with 4th liners. The other options are good PKers and/or can be physical.

Parise ruined the 3rd line when he was put there.

 

[Foppa2118]

Helm could still skate. All Parise has left is his hockey IQ and he isn't going to use it much with 4th liners. The other options are good PKers and/or can be physical.

Parise ruined the 3rd line when he was put there.

I like Duhaime, but he hasn't been very effective in a 4th line role in the playoffs either IMO. He's just been ok. But Parise scored a huge goal in game 2 to change the tide of the Jets series.

He didn't ruin that 3rd line. That line hasn't looked the same without LOC. That was also the regular season coming off an injury. This is the playoffs. That matters for a gamer like Parise.

That IQ can come up huge in big moments. He's a better fit for a top 9 role, but he doesn't need to play with other skill players to use his IQ.

In a low scoring, tied playoff game, and your 4th line getting just a handful of minutes,
Parise's instincts will tell him when to go to the net, and the puck will find him. With a rebound sitting in the slot or crease, you want the puck on Parise's stick instead of Duhaime's if you have the choice.

 

[MacKaRant]

Helm could still skate. All Parise has left is his hockey IQ and he isn't going to use it much with 4th liners. The other options are good PKers and/or can be physical.

Parise ruined the 3rd line when he was put there.

I'd rather give the 8 minutes to a veteran who's wily and defensively responsible and has some scoring touch even if the other guy is a more prototypical fourth liner. Put me in camp Parise.

 

[Balthazar]

I like Duhaime, but he hasn't been very effective in a 4th line role in the playoffs either IMO. He's just been ok. But Parise scored a huge goal in game 2 to change the tide of the Jets series.

He didn't ruin that 3rd line. That line hasn't looked the same without LOC. That was also the regular season coming off an injury. This is the playoffs. That matters for a gamer like Parise.

That IQ can come up huge in big moments. He's a better fit for a top 9 role, but he doesn't need to play with other skill players to use his IQ.

In a low scoring, tied playoff game, and your 4th line getting just a handful of minutes,
Parise's instincts will tell him when to go to the net, and the puck will find him. With a rebound sitting in the slot or crease, you want the puck on Parise's stick instead of Duhaime's if you have the choice.

Duhaime looked good next to Mitts too. Parise doesn't have 2 goals if he plays on the 4th line.

IMO Parise is 2nd line or healthy scratch.

I'd rather give the 8 minutes to a veteran who's wily and defensively responsible and has some scoring touch even if the other guy is a more prototypical fourth liner. Put me in camp Parise.

4th line is an energy line. Parise doesn't fit there at all.

 

[dahrougem2]

Duhaime sits before Parise. There is no chance Bednar healthy scratches Parise ahead of him.

Personally, idk what folks see in Duhaime. He was good for the first few games upon arrival but I haven't liked him at all in the playoffs.

 

[GeoRox89]

Parise isn’t coming out unless he has a few games where he is completely ineffective. Don’t underrate the value that guy brings from the bench compared to a struggling Duhaime. While not as effective, he’s this years Cogs/JMFJ that long term vet that the guys want a Cup with more so than they want to win it for him

Parise is a solid option for PP2 as well

 

[Balthazar]

Duhaime sits before Parise. There is no chance Bednar healthy scratches Parise ahead of him.

Personally, idk what folks see in Duhaime. He was good for the first few games upon arrival but I haven't liked him at all in the playoffs.

That's because you compare Duhaime on the 4th line with Parise on the 2nd line.

First of all, Parise is by far the worst player in the top 6, like it's not close. Then you have to take in consideration that Parise doesn't PK, doesn't skate fast and doesn't hit.

WTF is he going to add to the 4th line?

Goals?

 

[LOFIN]

Parise isn’t coming out unless he has a few games where he is completely ineffective. Don’t underrate the value that guy brings from the bench compared to a struggling Duhaime. While not as effective, he’s this years Cogs/JMFJ that long term vet that the guys want a Cup with more so than they want to win it for him

Parise is a solid option for PP2 as well

1000%

Unless Parise clearly struggles, he's not coming out. That hasn't happened.

 

[Foppa2118]

Great interview by Zach. And great questions by Meghan. She got some good sound bytes.

Also worth noting this is a (near) 20 year, highly respected vet, talking about how great Bednar is at making "adjustments." The alternative was never an issue IMO.

He also talks about how he gives them a road map to win, and then it's just up to them to execute on the plan, and if they do, they have a good shot at winning.

This was the problem in the past against teams like Vegas. They didn't execute. They stopped moving their feet. Same problem in game 1 against the Jets and same problem in the first period of game 1 against the Stars. They didn't move their feet. Once they started, they took over the game, and they won.

 

[Foppa2118]

That's because you compare Duhaime on the 4th line with Parise on the 2nd line.

First of all, Parise is by far the worst player in the top 6, like it's not close. Then you have to take in consideration that Parise doesn't PK, doesn't skate fast and doesn't hit.

WTF is he going to add to the 4th line?

Goals?

I respect your opinion Balth, but I think you forgot who he was playing with when he scored that huge goal to change the tide in game 2 vs the Jets.

Using the same instincts to go to the net I talked about, with the same line I penciled in.

Cogs - Trenin - Parise

 

[forsbergavs32]

Great interview by Zach. And great questions by Meghan. She got some good sound bytes.

Also worth noting this is a (near) 20 year, highly respected vet, talking about how great Bednar is at making "adjustments." The alternative was never an issue IMO.

He also talks about how he gives them a road map to win, and then it's just up to them to execute on the plan, and if they do, they have a good shot at winning.

This was the problem in the past against teams like Vegas. They didn't execute. They stopped moving their feet. Same problem in game 1 against the Jets and same problem in the first period of game 1 against the Stars. They didn't move their feet. Once they started, they took over the game, and they won.

Meghan is probably the best at covering the Avs, it’s too bad she’s stuck working with Moe, Larry and Curly at DNVR.

 

[dahrougem2]

That's because you compare Duhaime on the 4th line with Parise on the 2nd line.

First of all, Parise is by far the worst player in the top 6, like it's not close. Then you have to take in consideration that Parise doesn't PK, doesn't skate fast and doesn't hit.

WTF is he going to add to the 4th line?

Goals?

No, it's because I compare Parise the player to Duhaime the player.

Duhaime will sit before Parise. There is zero chance Bednar does the opposite to a respected vet fighting for a cup for the last time.

Obviously he is the worst player in the top six. Our top six is stacked. Should we be surprised or something?

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Definitely not Parise.

Wagner 100%. Then 1 of Cogliano/Duhaime.

Wags and Kivi will get scratched.

JD/Mack/Mikko
Lehky/Mitts/Nuke
Wood/Rosco/Parise
Cogs/Trenin/Duhaime

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

I like Forslund, but I can't stand Eddie O. Hopefully we make him sad tonight

The good news is Douche-Shay is in Carolina, and not in Dallas, so at least we don't have both he and Eddie to listen to. Last game, I muted the TV and played Conor instead.

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

Advanced stats we like=good. Advanced stats we don’t like=needs context

I think following advanced stats blindly is just as problematic. Like, using a chart after a game as gospel for which player played well and which player played poorly, there’s accuracy and there’s outliers within the data.

Sometimes you just need to trust your eyes and other times, maybe the numbers make you have another look.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I think following advanced stats blindly is just as problematic. Like, using a chart after a game as gospel for which player played well and which player played poorly, there’s accuracy and there’s outliers within the data.

Sometimes you just need to trust your eyes and other times, maybe the numbers make you have another look.

I think a mix of both is needed. Eye test can lead to both positive and negative biases sticking out. But numbers definitely can not show the whole picture.

 

[katfude]

This is kinda dark but I'm ok with that

 

[5280]

I think following advanced stats blindly is just as problematic. Like, using a chart after a game as gospel for which player played well and which player played poorly, there’s accuracy and there’s outliers within the data.

Sometimes you just need to trust your eyes and other times, maybe the numbers make you have another look.

I agree. There’s just a human element to it all. That’s why they play the games.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Same shirt on as the last 5 games....check. let's do this!

 

[Alienblood]

Definitely not Duhaime.

Perhaps they rotate the old men but Cogs is a better bottom 6er than Parise.

Kivi stays out for now

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Duhaime will be the one that sits... But I think it eventually gets to Wags/Kivi tbh.


Drouin - Mack - Mikko
Lehky - Mitts - Nuke
Wood - Colton - Parise
Cogs - Trenin - Duhaime



Is where we probably end up in 2-3 games, but in the short term if Kivi comes back before Drouin, Wags will come out.



IF we ever get to a point where Landy does indeed return, Duhaime will be the next one out of that roster.

 

[Alienblood]

Duhaime sits before Parise. There is no chance Bednar healthy scratches Parise ahead of him.

Personally, idk what folks see in Duhaime. He was good for the first few games upon arrival but I haven't liked him at all in the playoffs.

His physicality will be needed though. just keep Kivi out