WCH and FIFA World Cup

[Xokkeu]

The IIHF has no power over North American hockey. We have our own ice size and rule book, we would just continue on playing our game.

However, cooperation is better. The IIHF, IOC, and TV networks (my idea, the TV networks could foot some of this bill, they profit from the Olympics) should come together and cover the expenses for the NHL to go.

The NHL players want to go.

Yes that is why I say they have no leverage and why they are willing to sanction the World Cup. Better to be on the same train than openly shooting at each other.

 

[snipes]

Yes that is why I say they have no leverage and why they are willing to sanction the World Cup. Better to be on the same train than openly shooting at each other.

Exactly. Work together to find a way for the insurance and travel costs to be covered for the NHL players. The NHL should not, and will not, take on all the risks and foot the bill to go.

The IOC is making huge money off this, cover the expenses.

 

[masa2009]

the TV networks could foot some of this bill, they profit from the Olympics

The rights are already so exorbitant that they often don't profit.

 

[Xokkeu]

Exactly. Work together to find a way for the insurance and travel costs to be covered for the NHL players. The NHL should not, and will not, take on all the risks and foot the bill to go.

The IOC is making huge money off this, cover the expenses.

IOC =/= IIHF

Much like the World Cup, the IIHF is just a rubber stamp of approval for the Olympics.

And yes the IOC is making huge money off this and it will be interesting game of chicken between them and the NHL leading up to next season.

 

[snipes]

IOC =/= IIHF

Much like the World Cup, the IIHF is just a rubber stamp of approval for the Olympics.

And yes the IOC is making huge money off this and it will be interesting game of chicken between them and the NHL leading up to next season.

I realize that. Both the IOC and IIHF jointly covered the costs previously.

For example, at the 2014 Sochi Olympics, the IOC covered $14M and the IIHF covered $18M.

 

[Kshahdoo]

The IIHF signs off on pretty much everything, but really they don't have any leverage. Lets say they decided to threaten to withhold transfer certificates for players who are kept out of the World Juniors or World Championships. The NHL would simply laugh and continue on. That's why the IIHF signs off on the World Cup with fake teams, it's why USA Hockey and Hockey Canada sign off on fake teams. Because they know the NHL would do it anyway and they might as well benefit from it.

Do you remember that Yashin story? It could go a totally different way, if not IIHF. The organization still has some leverage.

 

[Xokkeu]

I realize that. Both the IOC and IIHF jointly covered the costs previously.

For example, at the 2014 Sochi Olympics, the IOC covered $14M and the IIHF covered $18M.

I'm not privy to the negotiations, but I doubt it's the IIHF holding out on Korea.

 

[snipes]

I'm not privy to the negotiations, but I doubt it's the IIHF holding out on Korea.

Oh no, it's not. This is on the IOC, they came out and refused to cover the Olympics. I think the IIHF is open to covering some of the expenses, but the IOC has flatly refused to cover the insurance and travel costs.

The IIHF I think is still trying to change the IOC's mind on this. It would be a shame if the IOC remained stubborn.

 

[Xokkeu]

Do you remember that Yashin story? It could go a totally different way, if not IIHF. The organization still has some leverage.

I don't remember the details of Yashin's conflict, but if I recall it came down to if the IIHF would allow him to play in the World's while Ottawa had suspended him? The IIHF can enforce suspensions, like Todd Bertuzzi was not allowed to play during the lockout. But these are all cases of the IIHF enforcing the will of the NHL. The question of enforcing something against the NHL is where the IIHF would be lacking in much leverage.

 

[Xokkeu]

Oh no, it's not. This is on the IOC, they came out and refused to cover the Olympics. I think the IIHF is open to covering some of the expenses, but the IOC has flatly refused to cover the insurance and travel costs.

The IIHF I think is still trying to change the IOC's mind on this. It would be a shame if the IOC remained stubborn.

It's a real shame. I have no interest in supporting the IOC or FIFA, who really are quite deplorable organizations. At the same time, they hold the cards because I want to watch the Olympics and World Cup.

 

[snipes]

It's a real shame. I have no interest in supporting the IOC or FIFA, who really are quite deplorable organizations. At the same time, they hold the cards because I want to watch the Olympics and World Cup.

It's a bloody shame indeed. It seems like the IIHF is trying, I don't blame them and they shouldn't be lumped in with the IOC.

The IOC came out and said they are not covering any expenses or insurance costs. Those costs being covered were crucial for NHL participation in 1998 onward. The IOC have contributed to covering these costs for every Olympics up until now.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I don't remember the details of Yashin's conflict, but if I recall it came down to if the IIHF would allow him to play in the World's while Ottawa had suspended him? The IIHF can enforce suspensions, like Todd Bertuzzi was not allowed to play during the lockout. But these are all cases of the IIHF enforcing the will of the NHL. The question of enforcing something against the NHL is where the IIHF would be lacking in much leverage.

It didn't do anything in the case of Radulov and forced NHL to respect RSL/KHL contracts.

 

[Xokkeu]

It didn't do anything in the case of Radulov and forced NHL to respect RSL/KHL contracts.

This is true. I think the NHL was just ready to let Radulov go in the end. But respecting contracts came down more to the KHL and NHL sitting down, with the IIHF mediating, and coming to an agreement to avoid all out war.

 

[snipes]

It didn't do anything in the case of Radulov and forced NHL to respect RSL/KHL contracts.

This is true. I think the NHL was just ready to let Radulov go in the end. But respecting contracts came down more to the KHL and NHL sitting down, with the IIHF mediating, and coming to an agreement to avoid all out war.

The NHL is not completely unreasonable. They can negotiate and seek cooperation if parties are open to it. This example of mediation shows it.

At the same time, the NHL is a business. As it pertains to the current issue, the IOC cannot expect them to pay all of the expenses and insurances fees while shutting down their season.

It's not about making money, it's about not being stuck with the bill for sending the NHL players and taking all of the risk. We all want the NHL players at the Olympics, the players want to go.

Maybe the IIHF needs to use some power to influence the IOC?

 

[Xokkeu]

The NHL is not completely unreasonable. They can negotiate and seek cooperation if parties are open to it. This example of mediation shows it.

At the same time, the NHL is a business. As it pertains to the current issue, the IOC cannot expect them to pay all of the expenses and insurances fees while shutting down their season.

It's not about making money, it's about not being stuck with the bill for sending the NHL players and taking all of the risk. We all want the NHL players at the Olympics, the players want to go.

Maybe the IIHF needs to use some power to influence the IOC?

The IIHF is like the Switzerland of international affairs. It just wants everyone to get along and tries to promote as much hockey in as many places as possible. I doubt that they'd have much they could do to push the IOC, since there's no way they'd drop sanctioning hockey in the Olympics.

 

[snipes]

The IIHF is like the Switzerland of international affairs. It just wants everyone to get along and tries to promote as much hockey in as many places as possible. I doubt that they'd have much they could do to push the IOC, since there's no way they'd drop sanctioning hockey in the Olympics.

I still have faith a deal will get done and the NHL guys will be there.

The Olympics matter to everyone.

 

[The CyNick]

To the OP. Soccer is a much different beat than hockey. First, you have far more countries that play the game and are competitive at an international level. So you need a more widespread play in procedure. Further, the players that would participate in a world cup are from many leagues throughout the world.

Hockey is different in that there are really only 6 good national sides. And about 99% of the players that make up those teams play in one league. Sure there are the odd player from other leagues, but by and large you only need the NHLPA to have a proper tournament.

The Olympic issue - its just so hard to comprehend how anyone can side with the opinion that the NHL should be at the Olympics. They have to risk their own assets. And they can't air any footage or use any images. The argument is always look at the exposure the Olympics provides, but even if a player does something great, the NHL can't capitalize on it. On top of that their season is disputed. FIFA world cup doesn't disrupt club football, and the Olympics for soccer is a joke, just like the hockey tournament was prior to 98 and will be again.

The WCOH has already been great, and fans are excited. It's going to be very profitable and will continue. Each subsequent event will gain in popularity and prove this tournament to be the #1 international event for hockey. Some keyboard warriors will complain, but those are not paying customers, so their opinion is irrelevant.

 

[Xokkeu]

To the OP. Soccer is a much different beat than hockey. First, you have far more countries that play the game and are competitive at an international level. So you need a more widespread play in procedure. Further, the players that would participate in a world cup are from many leagues throughout the world.

Hockey is different in that there are really only 6 good national sides. And about 99% of the players that make up those teams play in one league. Sure there are the odd player from other leagues, but by and large you only need the NHLPA to have a proper tournament.

The Olympic issue - its just so hard to comprehend how anyone can side with the opinion that the NHL should be at the Olympics. They have to risk their own assets. And they can't air any footage or use any images. The argument is always look at the exposure the Olympics provides, but even if a player does something great, the NHL can't capitalize on it. On top of that their season is disputed. FIFA world cup doesn't disrupt club football, and the Olympics for soccer is a joke, just like the hockey tournament was prior to 98 and will be again.

The WCOH has already been great, and fans are excited. It's going to be very profitable and will continue. Each subsequent event will gain in popularity and prove this tournament to be the #1 international event for hockey. Some keyboard warriors will complain, but those are not paying customers, so their opinion is irrelevant.

Only eight teams have ever won the World Cup, and that counts Uruguay who I bet nobody posting here was alive when they last won. FIFA has clearly shown it has no problem with teams showing up for the World Cup who presumably "can't win." For example a team like Costa Rica that probably shouldn't even be there because they have no chance to win, wins a group and knocks out Italy and England. The notion that Hockey is unique in that it only has 6 sides that can win, whereas football doesn't, is flatly wrong. FIFA has embraced the model that having everyone participate is a substantially better investment in the tournament's scope than not. Unless you think St. Vincent and the Grenadines are worse at soccer than Switzerland is at hockey.

 

[Xokkeu]

I still have faith a deal will get done and the NHL guys will be there.

The Olympics matter to everyone.

I think it's 50/50. The IOC should inherently know that not having the NHL players there will really put a huge damper on their marquee event. That said, does the IOC ego and the fact that they already have the huge rights fees paid for overwhelm their arrogance.

 

[Kshahdoo]

To the OP. Soccer is a much different beat than hockey. First, you have far more countries that play the game and are competitive at an international level. So you need a more widespread play in procedure. Further, the players that would participate in a world cup are from many leagues throughout the world.

Hockey is different in that there are really only 6 good national sides. And about 99% of the players that make up those teams play in one league. Sure there are the odd player from other leagues, but by and large you only need the NHLPA to have a proper tournament.

The Olympic issue - its just so hard to comprehend how anyone can side with the opinion that the NHL should be at the Olympics. They have to risk their own assets. And they can't air any footage or use any images. The argument is always look at the exposure the Olympics provides, but even if a player does something great, the NHL can't capitalize on it. On top of that their season is disputed. FIFA world cup doesn't disrupt club football, and the Olympics for soccer is a joke, just like the hockey tournament was prior to 98 and will be again.

The WCOH has already been great, and fans are excited. It's going to be very profitable and will continue. Each subsequent event will gain in popularity and prove this tournament to be the #1 international event for hockey. Some keyboard warriors will complain, but those are not paying customers, so their opinion is irrelevant.

It's not that simple about FIFA World Cup. Big clubs have been hating it for years, that their best players go to international competitions, where they usually get injured and then miss a lot of games, still getting money.

They can't do a flying **** about it though, because football is a big politics in so many countries, and clubs risk to madden fans, press, politicians and whoever else, which would be even worse for their business, than injured players.

It looks like NHL just don't care, what fans from other than Canada and US countries think. Probably, NHL doesn't even care, what US and Canada fans think.

 

[Xokkeu]

It's not that simple about FIFA World Cup. Big clubs have been hating it for years, that their best players go to international competitions, where they usually get injured and then miss a lot of games, still getting money.

They can't do a flying **** about it though, because football is a big politics in so many countries, and clubs risk to madden fans, press, politicians and whoever else, which would be even worse for their business, than injured players.

It looks like NHL just don't care, what fans from other than Canada and US countries think. Probably, NHL doesn't even care, what US and Canada fans think.

There are so many more moving parts with FIFA and the clubs. There is FIFA, there is it's subordinate UEFA, there are the clubs, the leagues and the players. Unlike the NHL, the clubs are not subservient to the leagues. They are a lot more intertwined with UEFA as the Champions league is major cash pull for them. The NHL has none of those connections with the IIHF or IOC. The players may want to go but there is little consequence if the NHL pulls out. The NHL as a league and it's clubs are like the US federal government and the states. The Fed is a unified power that overrides the states and deals with foreign governments on an equal basis. FIFA and the clubs is more like the EU, with varying levels of power and integration that as Britain is finding out, is a lot hard to untangle yourself from so easily.

 

[Mad Brills*]

It's basically like the WBC's

 

[Jussi]

NHL>>>>>>>>>IIHF

At least the players themselves get a 50% profit share.

Because they really need more money...

I prefer my country's federation getting millions of euros from hosting IIHF tournaments and using it on junior hockey, such as regional skills coaches.

 

[Seanaconda]

Because they really need more money...

I prefer my country's federation getting millions of euros from hosting IIHF tournaments and using it on junior hockey, such as regional skills coaches.

Yes and you still have your tourney that hasn't been taken away.

 

[Tuoppi]

Propostition, ditch the world championships and put one competition every year.
20 team world cup. Same system as rugby world cup
Olympics
Continental championships including 16 team European championships
Regional championships (Works as a qualifying tournament)

Make EHT 8 team world league. Below that would be 8 team European league and 4 team Asian league.