Was Pierre Turgeon Soft

[Eye of Ra]

Something i heard alot is that he was soft. Was he? Was his softness exaggerated?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I personally think it's an overblown reaction to his role in the Punchup in Piestany.

 

[blogofmike]

Not as soft as his reputation.

 

[Tuna99]

Yes he was soft, regular season PP specialist - I’d define soft in his case as in he got all his points on special teams and versus low ranked teams and if he played vs a top defensive line or a hungry team (like a Florida) he’d generally be invisible

 

[MadLuke]

89 to 93 Turgeon was 7th in even strenght points and 12th in power play points.
94 to 01 Turgeon was 7th in even strenght points and 16th in power play points.

playoff
88 to 93 Turgeon was 61th in even strenght points and 66th in power play points.
94 to 01 Turgeon was 28th in even strenght points and 33th in power play points.

Not sure if that is fair to call him a PP specialist, seem a more than regular EV/pp points distribution for when he played.

In playoff ppg
88 to 93 Turgeon was 14th in ppg, with 1.12
94 to 01 Turgeon was 26th in ppg, with 0.87 like Recchi-Francis-Weight-Shanahan.

Could have been more thought than people give him credit for, hard to play 1294 games in the nhl, make a playoff comeback after that Hunter back injury, in term of soft vs hard, certainly of the softer side for the era in term of punishing others and hard to play against, but was not issue for him to play hockey in a rough era.

 

[Albatros]

A skill forward that didn't play very physical but also didn't avoid tough areas, I wouldn't call him either soft or tough in NHL terms.

 

[fish7]

When he was with the Blues, I thought the softness label was overblown

 

[GlitchMarner]

For his time, maybe he was kind of soft.

But he played in eras with some real badasses and warriors. It's not surprising that a skilled, playmaking centre didn't run around taking guys' heads off.

I'm not sure he was any softer than guys like LaFontaine, Weight and Gomez. Even some big (physically) centres of the time (like fellow first overall picks Sundin and Modano) weren't physically punishing players, though they weren't soft.


If he played now, he definitely wouldn't be considered soft.

 

[seventieslord]

He was a finesse center who didn't go looking for trouble. Definitely gets a rougher ride for this than Oates, Savard, Sedin, Lafontaine, and many others who could be described the same way.

It was a different time though. We think back to guys like Lindros, Messier, Gilmour, Roenick, Brind'Amour and there just aren't as many like that anymore. He was soft compared to that kind of player (even if those players were the exception and not the rule). But nowadays he would fit right in.

 

[Michael Farkas]

He got hurt celebrating a goal. That's soff.

(But really, the last two posts)

 

[Crosby2010]

I don't think anyone can be as soft as the "Tin Man" nickname that was given to him. I won't hang him for the Piestany Punch Up in 1987 because he's still 17. Although even someone like Gretzky who is the furthest thing from a fighter would have jumped off the bench and at least gone looking for the softest Soviet player to grab onto (and the Soviet player would be looking for him too). But I won't hold that against him, he had a long NHL career after that. He was a guy you wish you got more out of when push came to shove. Probably was skilled enough to be on Team Canada but I wouldn't say good enough or someone who could fit in on those teams either. Just didn't play the sort of high intensity hockey you'd hope for. But he did come back from the Hunter injury. And I honestly think that maybe this messed him up psychologically a bit. Hunter cheapshots him from behind as he is celebrating a goal and that's dirty as can be. Separates his shoulder if I recall.

That being said, if I want to win a Cup I don't want him as my #1 centre. Patrick Roy described Turgeon being the captain in Montreal as saying someone with balls the size of snowpeas. I really have no idea why Damphousse wouldn't have immediately been captain after Mike Keane was traded. He had won a Cup with Montreal and was the leading scorer that year. He was french-Canadian, definitely played with more tenacity. Anyway, Turgeon can be my #2 centre anyday of the week though.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I'm not sure he was any softer than guys like LaFontaine, Weight and Gomez.

He was a finesse center who didn't go looking for trouble. Definitely gets a rougher ride for this than Oates, Savard, Sedin, Lafontaine, and many others who could be described the same way.

lafontaine had some jam to him right?

from one of numerous old turgeon threads:

Duhatschek, Eric.Calgary Herald; Calgary, Alta. [Calgary, Alta]26 Oct 1991: H2.

It took them almost nine months to get it done and when New York Islanders finally ended up trading Pat LaFontaine, they made a bad deal.

Friday's seven-player deal between the Islanders and Buffalo Sabres essentially boiled down to three players - LaFontaine for Pierre Turgeon and Uwe Krupp - and that transaction weighed heavily in Buffalo's favor.

Once upon a time, LaFontaine played for the Islanders when they were winning Stanley Cups. For the Sabres, a team that hasn't won a playoff round since 1982, that is an intangible quality they were desperately seeking.

Even though he's on the small side (five-foot-10, 177 pounds), there's a little of Theoren Fleury's feistiness in LaFontaine. Moreover, LaFontaine also possesses the unique ability to make something out of nothing. Playing with the sorriest cast of wingers in the league, LaFontaine averaged 93 points over the past four seasons.

Turgeon, on the other hand, is just the opposite of LaFontaine. Known as a "soft" player, Turgeon only does one thing well - score points - and he didn't do that especially well last season, managing only 79 points.

Unlike LaFontaine, he had the luxury of playing with two pretty good players, Dave Andreychuk and Alexander Mogilny.

One NHL GM recently described Turgeon as "one of the most overrated players in the game." Krupp may be a quality defenceman, but if his inclusion is all it took to swing the deal, then the Sabres win the trade hands down.

The bottom line: With LaFontaine, you can win. With Turgeon, all you'll ever get is close.

 

[The Panther]

He got hurt celebrating a goal. That's soff.

Kind of like the guy in Revenge of the Nerds who broke his leg playing chess....

Turgeon was just as "tough" (whatever that means) as any other mainly non-physical, skilled forward of his era. I can't find the clip right now, but there was a Boston-Buffalo game in 1989 or 1990 when Turgeon dropped the gloves and fought a Bruin (didn't do particularly well but he was in there). This "soft" narrative is just a myth.

 

[Gorskyontario]

I thought he was very soft but became less soft as his career progressed.

He played by far his best hockey in St Louis. Having Pronger on the team may have had something to do with it.

 

[Gorskyontario]

He was a finesse center who didn't go looking for trouble. Definitely gets a rougher ride for this than Oates, Savard, Sedin, Lafontaine, and many others who could be described the same way.

He was more soft than Oates, Savard, Lafontaine. Sedin was more soft than Turgeon.

 

[Stephen]

I think Turgeon's "soft" moniker applied to having a low level of emotional intensity and the ability to rev it up when you need the extra juice. I'm thinking the comparison with a more recent player is Patrick Marleau.

 

[Staniowski]

Patrick Roy described Turgeon being the captain in Montreal as saying someone with balls the size of snowpeas.

Patrick Roy definitely didn't say that about Turgeon.

Roy and Turgeon were best friends when they were teammates (Roy has said Turgeon was his closest friend among all his Habs teammates over a decade of playing in Montreal).

And, further, Roy was never on any hockey team in which Turgeon was the captain.

I know accuracy isn't a hallmark of the HOH subforum, but, my god, saying ridiculous things like this over and over and over again....

 

[Crosby2010]

Patrick Roy definitely didn't say that about Turgeon.

Roy and Turgeon were best friends when they were teammates (Roy has said Turgeon was his closest friend among all his Habs teammates over a decade of playing in Montreal).

And, further, Roy was never on any hockey team in which Turgeon was the captain.

I know accuracy isn't a hallmark of the HOH subforum, but, my god, saying ridiculous things like this over and over and over again....

I'm obviously referring to when Roy was traded, with Mike Keane, and then the Habs needed to pick a new captain since Keane was gone. That captain was Turgeon. I will admit I can't even remember where I first heard that quote that is credited to Roy since it has been said several times over the years, but do you happen to know how the comment came about and if Roy said it who he was talking about if not about Turgeon?

 

[MadLuke]

Roy said it who he was talking about if not about Turgeon?

When did Roy said it ?

Turgeon said really nice things when Roy became the Isles coach:

https://www.nhl.com/news/new-york-islanders-in-nice-place-with-patrick-roy-as-coach

Sound a bit like the many habs urban legends (that can be true or not, but the number of different conspiracy I heard back in the days at school when Tugnutt got the net against the Bruins in the 1994 playoff because of Roy "appendicitis" according to the official mainstream media version was nuts).

 

[Bear of Bad News]

This feels like something that should be easy to find if it happened and was tied to the Roy trade.

 

[Crosby2010]

When did Roy said it ?

Turgeon said really nice things when Roy became the Isles coach:

https://www.nhl.com/news/new-york-islanders-in-nice-place-with-patrick-roy-as-coach

Sound a bit like the many habs urban legends (that can be true or not).

I can't find definitive proof that he said it. The story I have always heard (have heard it on here too) was that when Roy was with the Avs he made this comment about his old team and choosing a captain that has balls the size of snowpeas. It possibly could have been said since he'd have been awfully bitter at that time about Montreal. I am just wondering where the quote first came about. Or why it was credited to Roy.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Gare Joyce's book quotes a "former Canadiens star" as saying it, but I can't immediately find any evidence tying Roy to it that's any more than conjecture by random people.

 

[MadLuke]

Someone that would have had Turgeon as a captain and involved in the mood that did lead to his trade sound more likely than Roy... Not sure a francophone would have that expression either (petit pois being an much more obvious one to use than snow peas...)

 

[reckoning]

I think the quote originated in the Joyce book, and a lot of people assumed the ex-Habs star who said it was Patrick, because his brother Stephane was one of the Canadians who got double-teamed in the brawl. But there's never been any evidence it was him.

And for what it's worth, 97-98 was the first season the NHL officially tracked hits. The five players who threw the least hits per game:

Wayne Gretzky 4/82, .049
Pierre Turgeon 6/60, .100
Jari Kurri 7/70, .100
Ray Whitney 8/77, .104
Ray Sheppard 8/71, .112

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

here is the source of the snow peas comment, from gare joyce’s piestany book:

obviously the identity of the speaker isn’t known. could be roy, could be guy lafleur or henri richard for all we know.

the context suggesting it was roy would be that in the brawl that turgeon stayed on the bench during, roy’s brother stephane was left to be double-teamed by two soviets and sustained an extremely dangerous kick to the head.

the person stephane roy singled out in the book was kerry huffman, although turgeon’s name does come up.