Was Krejci's glove-down legal?

[Beezeral]

All I gave you was stats. Hard facts.

I've never seen so much crying about a minor missed call, you'd think he threw the puck into the net from your description. I can't believe that 40 hours later you're still not over it. Let it go man, you'll feel better.

over what? I'm enjoying finding out the lengths you will go to deflect from a pretty obvious fact that a thrown puck directly led to a goal in that game.

where Carolina got far bigger breaks (obvious trip and puck over the glass), that it's not worth discussing at all.

nothing but facts here. lol

I think it is more there are people willing to argue about it on both sides than one side is upset about it.

Also taking the "you mad" approach is quite infantile on your part.

the you mad at least admits a blown call happened. the completely delusional denial of what happened is way more infantile/enjoyable to watch play out.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Just watched it for the first time.

Really ,this is a 22 page thread?
I'm starting to dislike 2018.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

case in point. you would rather minimize the impact of the play we are discussing, deflect by trying to argue your team got screwed worse that night, and most hilariously, follow it up by hinting at some long term conspiracy against your team rather then simply admit your team got away with an obvious blown call.

Minor break? lmao. the guy threw the puck past the defenseman, then chased it down and fed a teammate for a goal. But hey, that puck over glass penalty and missed trip cost your team 4 minutes of PP time. In your warped mind, 4 minutes of missed PP time where your team is 22% on the PP had more of an impact on the game then a call that resulted in an actual goal.

This thread is pure fun for me and your contributions have been a main reason. so thank you.

They scored on a 5v3 that should have been 4v3. Evened out.

 

[Jdavidev]

I don't know why other B's fans can't look at the play objectively.

Picture that being a play by Plekanec in either a leafs or habs jersey and those same defenders would be in here complaining about "Montreal Typical" or "typical favoritism for the leafs".

Krejci definitely got away with one there.

Other than the first few pages where people incorrectly thought the puck went off his knee, almost no one is saying that. But you can pretend there is a strong opposition. I have repeatedly said, along with quite a few others, that this should have been whistled dead. There are some that are arguing over the wording of the rule and the changes made recently to it to great confusion.

Of course, there are others that are calling for a penalty, for some reason. Others using exaggeration and hyperbole to misrepresent what happened to what end, I don't know. And others arguing physics by using the Oxford English dictionary.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Of course, there are others that are calling for a penalty, for some reason.

That’s the only real argument to be had here, whether this counted as closing his hand on the puck.

 

[Jdavidev]

That’s the only real argument to be had here, whether this counted as closing his hand on the puck.

But there is no real argument when reviewing the rules. 67.2 - You are allowed to catch the puck in the air, as long as you don't skate with it (or if standing still, hold on to the puck for a period of time). This doesn't happen in this play. As shown in the gif and the stills, he catches the puck a foot or two before the blue line and releases the puck while his skates are still on the blue line, fully in motion. Whole exchange takes less than half a second. Therefore, no penalty for Closing Hand on the Puck (That's just the name of the penalty, by the way, and also covers concealing the puck with your glove on the ice and picking the puck up off the ice). 67.1 - This then moves to Handling the Puck because the pucks squirts too far away from his stick from the act of releasing the puck while in motion. If he plays the puck at the red line, it's all good. If this all happened in the defensive zone (catching it, and playing it with his stick once it was on the ice), it's all good. However, the Bruins gained territorial advantage from the action, therefore it moves to rule 79.1 and is considered a Hand Pass (even though the pass is to himself). It's an infraction, blown dead, face off just outside the Bruins zone. It is not a penalty.

 

[tarheelhockey]

But there is no real argument

There is definitely a real argument. You are presenting one side of that argument which is fine, but at the end of the day it's a judgment call as to how explicitly a player is allowed to hold a puck in his closed hand before the 2 minute penalty comes into effect.

 

[Anglesmith]

But there is no real argument when reviewing the rules. 67.2 - You are allowed to catch the puck in the air, as long as you don't skate with it (or if standing still, hold on to the puck for a period of time). This doesn't happen in this play. As shown in the gif and the stills, he catches the puck a foot or two before the blue line and releases the puck while his skates are still on the blue line, fully in motion. Whole exchange takes less than half a second.

But is that not half a second of skating with the puck, then?

Let's not get too caught up in the rule numbers. Rule 67.2 and Rule 79.1 both feature identical descriptions of legal and illegal play with regards to catching the puck.

Legal play is described as immediately dropping the puck or knocking it down. This allows a player some leeway to direct the puck where he wants it to land, and players frequently take this leeway. However, on this play, Krejci neither drops the puck or knocks it down. After catching it, he feigns as if to drop it (perhaps he was intending to drop it initially) then changes the trajectory of his arm to throw the puck. The throw is not immediate with respect to the catch, nor is it a knocking down or dropping motion. Thus Krejci does not act in a legal manner with regards to the rules.

Illegal play is described as skating with the puck after catching it. This is vague, and perhaps intentionally so to cover situations like this. It does not describe how long a player needs to be in possession of the puck before he is considered to be skating with it. There are no recommended number of steamboats. After catching it, Krejci is in motion (with skates on ice) without releasing the puck for a finite amount of time. Thus he does skate with the puck in his glove. It may be a seemingly pedantic interpretation, but I think it plays off of the description of legal play. Skating with the puck ought to cover basically any time a player does not perform the legal play and immediately drop the puck or knock it down. That way there is no grey area in the rules. Yes, players always skate with the puck when they catch it by this definition, but the rules supply a specific exception when they immediately drop it or knock it down.

 

[Beezeral]

But is that not half a second of skating with the puck, then?

Let's not get too caught up in the rule numbers. Rule 67.2 and Rule 79.1 both feature identical descriptions of legal and illegal play with regards to catching the puck.

Legal play is described as immediately dropping the puck or knocking it down. This allows a player some leeway to direct the puck where he wants it to land, and players frequently take this leeway. However, on this play, Krejci neither drops the puck or knocks it down. After catching it, he feigns as if to drop it (perhaps he was intending to drop it initially) then changes the trajectory of his arm to throw the puck. The throw is not immediate with respect to the catch, nor is it a knocking down or dropping motion. Thus Krejci does not act in a legal manner with regards to the rules.

Illegal play is described as skating with the puck after catching it. This is vague, and perhaps intentionally so to cover situations like this. It does not describe how long a player needs to be in possession of the puck before he is considered to be skating with it. There are no recommended number of steamboats. After catching it, Krejci is in motion (with skates on ice) without releasing the puck for a finite amount of time. Thus he does skate with the puck in his glove. It may be a seemingly pedantic interpretation, but I think it plays off of the description of legal play. Skating with the puck ought to cover basically any time a player does not perform the legal play and immediately drop the puck or knock it down. That way there is no grey area in the rules. Yes, players always skate with the puck when they catch it by this definition, but the rules supply a specific exception when they immediately drop it or knock it down.

Be ready for a convoluted response about dropping a puck while in motion. What he won’t explain is how dropping a puck results in that puck immediately traveling faster than the person who dropped it.

 

[PB37]

2 replies out of 25 thought it wasn't a penalty, and one of those is from Mass.

So 96% percent of replies thought it was a missed call.

You just made your own case worse.

It's your case that it was unanimous on the first two pages

 

[Jdavidev]

But is that not half a second of skating with the puck, then?

Let's not get too caught up in the rule numbers. Rule 67.2 and Rule 79.1 both feature identical descriptions of legal and illegal play with regards to catching the puck.

Legal play is described as immediately dropping the puck or knocking it down. This allows a player some leeway to direct the puck where he wants it to land, and players frequently take this leeway. However, on this play, Krejci neither drops the puck or knocks it down. After catching it, he feigns as if to drop it (perhaps he was intending to drop it initially) then changes the trajectory of his arm to throw the puck. The throw is not immediate with respect to the catch, nor is it a knocking down or dropping motion. Thus Krejci does not act in a legal manner with regards to the rules.

Illegal play is described as skating with the puck after catching it. This is vague, and perhaps intentionally so to cover situations like this. It does not describe how long a player needs to be in possession of the puck before he is considered to be skating with it. There are no recommended number of steamboats. After catching it, Krejci is in motion (with skates on ice) without releasing the puck for a finite amount of time. Thus he does skate with the puck in his glove. It may be a seemingly pedantic interpretation, but I think it plays off of the description of legal play. Skating with the puck ought to cover basically any time a player does not perform the legal play and immediately drop the puck or knock it down. That way there is no grey area in the rules. Yes, players always skate with the puck when they catch it by this definition, but the rules supply a specific exception when they immediately drop it or knock it down.

I'm mean, I think you are right that the rules would really need to be clarified to be black and white, that you can never grab the puck or catch it. But they actually specifically allow it, with a vague clarifier of time: skating with it. As you said, unless they are completely motionless, everyone is technically skating with it. The entire elapsed time from when he grabs it until it is released is 12 frames, so 0.4 seconds. That is extremely quick in real time. He makes no strides, and his arm raises, palm down, releasing the puck. I can't imagine any ref, ever, would call that a penalty.

 

[Lyons71]

I call a penalty on that play. He grabbed it, changed directions and threw it across the entire neutral zone. But refs miss plays all the time.

 

[chizzler]

If the refs called it, they wouldn’t be wrong. They didn’t. Oh well. Not sure it’s worth 22 pages of arguing.

 

[bearcountry17]

Krejci did it again today around 1215 remaining in the 2nd. Nobody scored after so nobody cares.

 

[CherryToke]

I'm sure Jack Edwards thought it was perfectly legal.

 

[Beezeral]

I'm sure Jack Edwards thought it was perfectly legal.

According to Bruins fans even he thought it was illegal.

Krejci did it again today around 1215 remaining in the 2nd. Nobody scored after so nobody cares.

Happened right in front of me. He definitely likes to toss the puck forward to give himself an andavatage. This one wasn’t nearly as obvious because he picked up the puck again after one stride.

 

[Bank Shot]

It's your case that it was unanimous on the first two pages

Among non Bruins fans sure. Keep the homering strong.

 

[LakeLivin]

But there is no real argument when reviewing the rules. 67.2 - You are allowed to catch the puck in the air, as long as you don't skate with it (or if standing still, hold on to the puck for a period of time). This doesn't happen in this play. As shown in the gif and the stills, he catches the puck a foot or two before the blue line and releases the puck while his skates are still on the blue line, fully in motion. Whole exchange takes less than half a second. Therefore, no penalty for Closing Hand on the Puck (That's just the name of the penalty, by the way, and also covers concealing the puck with your glove on the ice and picking the puck up off the ice). 67.1 - This then moves to Handling the Puck because the pucks squirts too far away from his stick from the act of releasing the puck while in motion. If he plays the puck at the red line, it's all good. If this all happened in the defensive zone (catching it, and playing it with his stick once it was on the ice), it's all good. However, the Bruins gained territorial advantage from the action, therefore it moves to rule 79.1 and is considered a Hand Pass (even though the pass is to himself). It's an infraction, blown dead, face off just outside the Bruins zone. It is not a penalty.

I've got the game DVRd and I just took a look at the play in slow/ stop motion from angles on both sides of the ice. Here's exactly what happened.

Krejci catches the puck over his head while his skates are 3-4 feet back of the beginning of his own blue line. He brings his hand down and it's below his waist while his skates are still 1 foot.shy of the blue line. Instead of releasing the puck, or continuing his arm in a downward motion and then releasing the puck, he brings his arm up and out while continuing forward, tossing the puck forward and to the side. He released it while his skates were right in the middle of the blue line, his arm about 1 foot in front of it. The puck lands past Jordan Staal, about 10 feet in front of the blue line. Krejci catches up with it at the red line. Total distance from where Krejci closes his hand on the puck to where it lands after he tosses it: 13-14 feet. Total distance Krejci travels (skates) between catching the puck and releasing it: about 4 feet.

People can argue all they want over whether it should have been called given current conventions, but I don't see how there can be much doubt that it was technically a penalty as per the rules. He held it in a closed hand while traveling forward (if that's not skating, what is it, teleportation, lol?) longer than he needed to and it gave him a clear territorial advantage over the defender. Regardless of how quickly things happened, it's that hitch in his arm motion while he's skating forward instead of directly bringing the puck to the ice that makes the call so clear when you analyze the play. I think a good analogy to help visualize it is when a player on a shoot out attempt stops the pucks forward motion and draws it backwards before continuing his attempt. Doesn't matter how quickly that happens, it's still a violation.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Definitely a penalty, was missed.