Confirmed with Link: Walman and a 2nd Round Pick traded to SJ

[Steve Yzerlland]

Really we just need to change our pro-scouting approach and philosophy completely. We've made some really horrible decisions in FA and moving Walman that quickly without looking at other offers is just a real shame. Letting him and Ghost go just to bring in Gus is a huge, huge indictment of our process.

I hated both of these moves from the beginning. We can’t score at all, and dropping two offensive assets from the blue line, while giving up a second-round pick to move one of them without any replacement, is almost a fireable offense for anyone not named Steve Yzerman. If I’m being fair, his drafting still has a jury out, but his roster construction and free-agent signings deserve a D– or D grade. Just horrible.

 

[Tetsuo]

It’s nepotism. Steve has his brother Chris yzerman running the pro scouting in Detroit. If it was anyone but Stevie doing this in Detroit the fans would want heads to roll, and they should. I just cannot believe how apathetic and tame this fanbase has become. We are an original 6 team, some of the most decorated history in the sport came from our franchise. How is this acceptable. This isn’t just losing its incompetent. And nothings being done about it. Like how in the world is Lalonde still a coach.

It's actually fine for me if we keep Lalonde. This is a lost season, you just need to make sure the young guys develop and stay healthy, most of the rest of this roster can and should be moved. Ideally we plummet to a bottom 2 record to lock in one of Hagens, Martone, Schaefer or Misa (or whoever you have after the top 3) and then go all in on a star (if they make it) in FA.

That said I do think we need to start speaking up about his FA decisions, they've largely been the reason we've gotten stuck in the murky middle the past few years rather than bottoming out to improve our talent pool. The only thing that's going to save Steve here is if ASP, Buch, Cossa and somebody else become studs and redefine the outlook of this team.

I hated both of these moves from the beginning. We can’t score at all, and dropping two offensive assets from the blue line, while giving up a second-round pick to move one of them without any replacement, is almost a fireable offense for anyone not named Steve Yzerman. If I’m being fair, his drafting still has a jury out, but his roster construction and free-agent signings deserve a D– or D grade. Just horrible.

I do think the drafting is starting to sort itself out. We have the deepest pool in the league and the next few seasons will see a lot of guys graduate, which means we'll have a window where we can be really good and have a lot of cap space. The trick is for us to *not* shoot ourselves in the foot in FA and I'm not sure if I trust this Front Office to do it. Maybe it's time for Steve to step aside and let Lidstrom take over day to day operations.

 

[Winger98]

I do think the drafting is starting to sort itself out. We have the deepest pool in the league and the next few seasons will see a lot of guys graduate, which means we'll have a window where we can be really good and have a lot of cap space. The trick is for us to *not* shoot ourselves in the foot in FA and I'm not sure if I trust this Front Office to do it. Maybe it's time for Steve to step aside and let Lidstrom take over day to day operations.

I think part of that was us not spending on a bigger upgrade on the blueline this last summer. Roy looked interesting this summer...does he still look interesting 3 years from now or is he a guy we are regretting just when we have a lot of those kids (hopefully) solidifying themselves into a real core?

Maybe we'll go after a UFA like Petersson, Gavrikov, or Chychrun, but I'd bet we look at another short term trade and moving ASP into the lineup.

 

[SantosHalper]

Steve has his brother Chris yzerman running the pro scouting in Detroit.

Who says so?

I see 6 pro scouts but no director of pro scouting. Last person to hold that position was Mark Howe and he retired in 2022.

But really who/what the pro scouts actually are scouting for? How much scouting the likes of Copp, Compher and Chiarot need? They been in the league for years, GMs see them playing every night.

I think some of those scouts focus on AHL players, you need players for call ups and i don't think GM has the time watch AHL every night. European pro scout naturally scouts Europe and the rest of them are probably scouting these small minutes players and potential PTO guys.

- Maltby has been a pro scout since 2010.
- MacKinnon was hired in 2019, this is his first front office job.
- Chris Yzerman, pro scout since 2019 in Detroit. Before that amateur scout in Tampa 2010-2018 and pro scout 2018-2019.
- Gordon was hired in 2023, 1st front office job.
- Flynn was hired in 2023, 1st front office job.

UFA markets are UFA markets, rarely we see that there is a difference maker UFA. And even more rarely you can get a bargain in the UFA markets with term.

 

[OneMoreTry]

We have the deepest pool in the league

Is that really the case? It gets mentioned regularly, but is it true? I don't know.,.

 

[SirKillalot]

I get that it was because of the locker room and cap space. To me that's having the wrong priorities. If we evaluated Chiarot, Petry, Holl and Gustafsson to be acceptable defenseman for 4/6 spots in our lineup, then that's a bad evaluation. If we thought that having those guy's personalities over Walman's was a higher priority than Walman's play over theirs, that's the wrong priority. We chose the worse players and we did it because we thought they'd be better for our locker room.

Look at their history vs. Walman's history...besides Holl I get why one would believe the others were better.

Take Gustafsson he was coming of two seasons of 31 and 38 points being a plus, besides 2021-22 season with Chicago he hasn't really had a bad season. I'm not saying he is great and a top d-man, but its within reason to acquire him as he had held his own to a good degree defensively as well. Idk why he gets so much shit on, easy frustration target I guess.

Never like the Holl signing.

Chiarot had two bad years prior to coming to Detroit. It was a gamble believing he could turn it around in a new environment. I wouldn't have taken it on him, but we needed a d-man or more at the time.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Is that really the case? It gets mentioned regularly, but is it true? I don't know.,.

Deepest pool is all projection.

 

[Retire91]

Kind of reminds me of Kyle Quincey, wings didn't have roster for him so he just walked off the team once he was no longer waiver protected. Start in LA with a very notable season, then never really much after that. Although we didn't lose our pick on him until later in his career when Holland deleted a first round pick to get him back. So he was kind of like Walman on layaway.

 

[Gniwder]

Kind of reminds me of Kyle Quincey, wings didn't have roster for him so he just walked off the team once he was no longer waiver protected. Start in LA with a very notable season, then never really much after that. Although we didn't lose our pick on him until later in his career when Holland deleted a first round pick to get him back. So he was kind of like Walman on layaway.

Kyle Quincey was waived in favor of Derek Meech. It was a horrible decision, one that really pissed me off at the time.

He was claimed off waivers, he didn't walk. Waiver claims really don't have any choice other than quitting hockey.

Anyways, Quincey herniated a disc with GR, and aggravated the injury in Colorado. That's why he never really looked the same.

 

[The Zermanator]

Deepest pool is all projection.

If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster.

 

[better Red than Dead]

It’s nepotism. Steve has his brother Chris yzerman running the pro scouting in Detroit. If it was anyone but Stevie doing this in Detroit the fans would want heads to roll, and they should. I just cannot believe how apathetic and tame this fanbase has become. We are an original 6 team, some of the most decorated history in the sport came from our franchise. How is this acceptable. This isn’t just losing its incompetent. And nothings being done about it. Like how in the world is Lalonde still a coach.

He was also the pro scout in Tampa so not sure he’s the reason the pro scoring sucks. But I agree it is very weak

 

[SoupGuru]

Kyle Quincey was waived in favor of Derek Meech. It was a horrible decision, one that really pissed me off at the time.

He was claimed off waivers, he didn't walk. Waiver claims really don't have any choice other than quitting hockey.

Anyways, Quincey herniated a disc with GR, and aggravated the injury in Colorado. That's why he never really looked the same.

Who would you rather have in his prime: Derek Meech or Brett Lebda?

 

[Oddbob]

If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster.

A guarantee only matters if it says it on the box!

 

[Winger98]

If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster.

we bought a toaster at a garage sale for three bucks and the thing lasted for another twelve years.

 

[Winger98]

Kyle Quincey was waived in favor of Derek Meech. It was a horrible decision, one that really pissed me off at the time.

He was claimed off waivers, he didn't walk. Waiver claims really don't have any choice other than quitting hockey.

Anyways, Quincey herniated a disc with GR, and aggravated the injury in Colorado. That's why he never really looked the same.

It should also be noted that the Wings had a trade made to move Quincey that the stars backed out of because of his back issues. I don't remember anyone liking Meech over Quincey, but the Wings weren't the only team scared off by Quincey's medicals.

He was also the pro scout in Tampa so not sure he’s the reason the pro scoring sucks. But I agree it is very weak

I think people just get a little blind to the realities of signing nearly anyone through free agency.

 

[Konnan511]

Not really, unless you're cool with... something made Walman persona non grata in the locker room

Last season Walman wasn't anything special, don't think he was bad, but not like he was in his 1st full season in Detroit.

There were off ice issues

No he paid to get him of him because he had off ice issues

I get that it was because of the locker room and cap space.

This is all allegedly. There has been no proof, just rumors by members of this board. I would love to see any proof whatsoever that he was a bugaboo in the locker room. Seriously, I'd love to see it so we can either squash these rumors or finally have the clarity we need that this trade was more than just a cap dump.

He was great his first season and pretty good the first half of last season, then his play slipped dramatically and he was injured.

 

[norrisnick]

This is all allegedly. There has been no proof, just rumors by members of this board. I would love to see any proof whatsoever that he was a bugaboo in the locker room. Seriously, I'd love to see it so we can either squash these rumors or finally have the clarity we need that this trade was more than just a cap dump.

No one is going to name names in the organization.

But listen to this answer at the time stamp (4:07, link should take you right there).



You think he's talking about Perron not being bought in? Or Ghost down the stretch (the only part of the season he was semi-decent)? All signs point to Walman with that answer.

 

[SirKillalot]

This is all allegedly. There has been no proof, just rumors by members of this board. I would love to see any proof whatsoever that he was a bugaboo in the locker room. Seriously, I'd love to see it so we can either squash these rumors or finally have the clarity we need that this trade was more than just a cap dump.

He was great his first season and pretty good the first half of last season, then his play slipped dramatically and he was injured.

I would love to see it as well. The rumour didn't come from this board it came from elsewhere. Also got sort of enhanced when he got internally suspended from a game with the Sharks for missing some recovery training.

To my understanding he himself didn't want to leave. I would have liked to kept him.
My guess is there was some smoke there to some degree, maybe Walman is just a bit of a "bohemian" type of person, I don't think it warranted to what it seems to me be a bit hasty decision and pay a 2nd to ship him out. Could have been done using more time if that was the case.

Yzerman has only said he needed cap space and Walman was sacrificed, and it looks like it was for a move that didn't happen. Whether it was Stamkos, Trouba, both or someone else Idk. Some answers we won't know in years probably. It's not like Yzerman going to spills some beans.

 

[Konnan511]

No one is going to name names in the organization.

But listen to this answer at the time stamp (4:07, link should take you right there).



You think he's talking about Perron not being bought in? Or Ghost down the stretch (the only part of the season he was semi-decent)? All signs point to Walman with that answer.

Thank you for the link, I somewhat remember that interview.

To me, it sounds like Larkin is saying the team lost focused at the end of the season, there were players who didn't fully buy in even when they started doing better in April, and they addressed that this offseason. What that means, I guess is where we differ on the meanings. To me, it sounds like it could be a number of things, to a few of you it means he is calling Walman out and saying they dumped him because of that reason, because he wouldn't buy in or play through injury.

I guess I am interpreting the interview differently, but I can see why someone would think Larkin was signaling players quit on the team so they were released or shipped out instead of stating he is making sure everyone is focused to start the season and players were brought in who would help with their goals.

Thank you for brining that interview back up, I appreciate it.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Thank you for the link, I somewhat remember that interview.

To me, it sounds like Larkin is saying the team lost focused at the end of the season, there were players who didn't fully buy in even when they started doing better in April, and they addressed that this offseason. What that means, I guess is where we differ on the meanings. To me, it sounds like it could be a number of things, to a few of you it means he is calling Walman out and saying they dumped him because of that reason, because he wouldn't buy in or play through injury.

I guess I am interpreting the interview differently, but I can see why someone would think Larkin was signaling players quit on the team so they were released or shipped out instead of stating he is making sure everyone is focused to start the season and players were brought in who would help with their goals.

Thank you for brining that interview back up, I appreciate it.

And honestly Petes is a good source. I know that he's just an HF rando, but he predicted Walman would be traded weeks before it happened because of off ice issues. No one would have predicted Walman being moved until Petes made the pronouncement. Combined with the inexplicable scratches down the stretch and comments like Larkin's above, I think it all checks out.

Unfortunately with an Yzerman run organization, we have to be used to the idea that we're only going to get scraps of poorly supported information. Petes does seem to have a real connection to the team and has to know that if he outs the guy, they'll be fired. So I'm okay with him as a source of "this is more or less what the team thinks, unofficially."

 

[ShelbyZ]

It should also be noted that the Wings had a trade made to move Quincey that the stars backed out of because of his back issues. I don't remember anyone liking Meech over Quincey, but the Wings weren't the only team scared off by Quincey's medicals.

I kind of recall that it seemed Quincey had fallen a bit in the teams eyes during the 07/08 season. When their blueline was super banged up around the TDL, they called him up first, then Ericsson. However, they sent Quincey back down first and kept Ericsson up a couple more weeks while singing his praises.

I also remember the story from that summer where they had Quincey spend time on Aaron Downey's farm so he could learn to fight and add more to his game.

IIRC, the slight edge they gave Meech was because they felt comfortable dressing him as a winger to play 4/5 minutes on the 4th line. Came in handy because their cap situation made it hard to carry more than 12 forwards when everyone was healthy that year. I guess they didn't think Quincey could do the same?

All that said, I feel like in a hypothetical where they keep Quincey over Meech, it's likely Kyle plays few games like Meech/Chelios did and when they finally have an opening on D they still favor Ericsson over him and he just gets traded or waived later on. Not saying anyone here is guilty, but sometimes it feels like some Wings fans think if Quincey stayed he was going to have a breakout year like he did in LA. But that only came about because LA had a practically AHL level blueline that afforded Quincey a regular spot in the top 4 and on the PP, which Babcock wouldn't have given him. If anything, Quincey sticking around probably would've helped show the Wings he wasn't going to be worth a first round pick in 3.5 years.....

I wonder if the team also deserves some shade for feeling like they needed to keep a soon to be 47YO Chris Chelios around to fill a role as a spare warm body on D which Quincey could've easily filled. Especially when we've learned more recently that it seemed like Babcock wasn't thrilled he was still around.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Who says so?
View attachment 941931
I see 6 pro scouts but no director of pro scouting. Last person to hold that position was Mark Howe and he retired in 2022.

But really who/what the pro scouts actually are scouting for? How much scouting the likes of Copp, Compher and Chiarot need? They been in the league for years, GMs see them playing every night.

I think some of those scouts focus on AHL players, you need players for call ups and i don't think GM has the time watch AHL every night. European pro scout naturally scouts Europe and the rest of them are probably scouting these small minutes players and potential PTO guys.

- Maltby has been a pro scout since 2010.
- MacKinnon was hired in 2019, this is his first front office job.
- Chris Yzerman, pro scout since 2019 in Detroit. Before that amateur scout in Tampa 2010-2018 and pro scout 2018-2019.
- Gordon was hired in 2023, 1st front office job.
- Flynn was hired in 2023, 1st front office job.

UFA markets are UFA markets, rarely we see that there is a difference maker UFA. And even more rarely you can get a bargain in the UFA markets with term.

I saw Boyd gordon at a grocery store in Ann Arbor yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

 

[SirKillalot]

It should also be noted that the Wings had a trade made to move Quincey that the stars backed out of because of his back issues. I don't remember anyone liking Meech over Quincey, but the Wings weren't the only team scared off by Quincey's medicals.

Should have never lost Quincey when they did, and also shouldn't have re-acquired him later.
Who knows what he would have done in Detroit if he stayed the first time.

Meech only really had speed and I guess not too bad technically but not great d-man.

 

[TKB]

I saw Boyd gordon at a grocery store in Ann Arbor yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

Thank you PP. I think we could all use that right about now.

The only thing better would be if you insert Steve Yzerman at the grocery store and post it on the Yzerman / Red wing thread on the main board.

 

[Gniwder]

I saw Boyd gordon at a grocery store in Ann Arbor yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

I didn't even realize he's a pro scout, and wouldn't recognize him at all. Who would want to take a photo with him anyways? He was just a warm body in the NHL. The last thing I would want to do is feed his ego, I probably would have asked him if he ever learned how to skate, lol.

Boyd would always skate with his legs locked in a wide stance and get knocked over easily. My nickname for him was Bambi Gordon, because he's fall over on the ice so easily. Watch his skating at the beginning of this clip, he's #15 for the Caps. Based on your story, you'll enjoy the ending too.