Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[VanJack]

What are you talking about? The discussion (which you raised) is whether Kravtsov can "refine" his two-way 200 foot game. Tocchet can "co-exist" with any player. The fact that he can "co-exist" with a player is irrelevant to the discussion as it doesn't mean Kravtsov can/has refined his two-way 200foot game and that Tocchet will play/utilize such player.

Granted it was only a limited sample size, but in his brief stint with the Canucks his defensive game wasn't all that bad. It was offense, where he delivered almost nothing.

And clearly he didn't want to play another season in the AHL. So he went back to Russia where he could earn more money. But maybe with the benefit of more pro experience in the KHL, he can 'improve', 'develop', or 'refine' his two-way game?

We're arguing about 'semantics' here.

 

[RobertKron]

Granted it was only a limited sample size, but in his brief stint with the Canucks his defensive game wasn't all that bad. It was offense, where he delivered almost nothing.

And clearly he didn't want to play another season in the AHL. So he went back to Russia where he could earn more money. But maybe with the benefit of more pro experience in the KHL, he can 'improve', 'develop', or 'refine' his two-way game?

We're arguing about 'semantics' here.

What part of this argument was semantic, exactly?

 

[VanJack]

What part of this argument was semantic, exactly?

The difference between 'refine', 'develop' or 'improve'. A dictionary might help.

 

[Lindgren]

The difference between 'refine', 'develop' or 'improve'. A dictionary might help.

Many probably don't know that a dictionary is a book (or an on-line equivalent) that lists words alphabetically and provides definitions and etymologies. The Oxford (commonly referred to as the OED) lists definitions chronologically, from the first known use of a word to its most current. Most others list the definitions in order of contemporary frequency.

 

[RobertKron]

The difference between 'refine', 'develop' or 'improve'. A dictionary might help.

But you're the only one who has introduced these terms (uh, and I'm pretty sure you first introduced two of them in the paragraph immediately above your claim that the argument was about semantics). Did you quote @F A N by accident, and you were actually for some reason telling us that you're currently locked in the throes of a semantic argument with yourself?

@F A N and @Lindgren were very clearly disagreeing with the premise of your statement rather than your chosen terminology.

 

[VanJack]

But you're the only one who has introduced these terms (uh, and I'm pretty sure you first introduced two of them in the paragraph immediately above your claim that the argument was about semantics). Did you quote @F A N by accident, and you were actually for some reason telling us that you're currently locked in the throes of a semantic argument with yourself?

@F A N and @Lindgren were very clearly disagreeing with the premise of your statement rather than your chosen terminology.

We need to reach an accommodation. I'll stop reading your posts if you stop reading mine.

If the purpose of this forum is to share 'hockey' opinions, then forcing people to actually read these exchanges is a waste of everyone's time.

But since this is supposed to be a discussion about Kravtsov's game, I understand what thoughtful posters are saying. It's unlikely he'll ever 'refine' his game to return to the NHL.

But the career of Valeri Nichushkin might offer glimmer of hope. He was a high draft pick of Dallas (10th overall in 2013). And after his career fell off a cliff with the Stars, he went back to KHL and played two seasons. And they were pretty underwhelming--24 points in 2016-17; and 27 points in 2017-18.

But he came back to the NHL and has had a pretty solid seven-year career with Colorado. So Kravtsov (9th overall by the Rangers in 2018) still may offer some hope. And the Canucks still own his rights.

 

[RobertKron]

We need to reach an accommodation. I'll stop reading your posts if you stop reading mine.

If the purpose of this forum is to share 'hockey' opinions, then forcing people to actually read these exchanges is a waste of everyone's time.

But since this is supposed to be a discussion about Kravtsov's game, I understand what thoughtful posters are saying. It's unlikely he'll ever 'refine' his game to return to the NHL.

But the career of Valeri Nichushkin might offer glimmer of hope. He was a high draft pick of Dallas (10th overall in 2013). And after his career fell off a cliff with the Stars, he went back to KHL and played two seasons. And they were pretty underwhelming--24 points in 2016-17; and 27 points in 2017-18.

But he came back to the NHL and has had a pretty solid seven-year career with Colorado. So Kravtsov (9th overall by the Rangers in 2018) still may offer some hope. And the Canucks still own his rights.

Ignoring his off-ice issues, Nichushkin came back to the NHL and put up zero goals and 10 points in 57 games - worse than before he left - and then improved over the next two years. It's unlikely that his time spent in the KHL was any type of a boost to his career.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Ignoring his off-ice issues, Nichushkin came back to the NHL and put up zero goals and 10 points in 57 games - worse than before he left - and then improved over the next two years. It's unlikely that his time spent in the KHL was any type of a boost to his career.

yep, Kravtsov is not following the same trajectory. He is doing better in the KHL. Way better. And Nichushkin never did well in Dallas. He broke out in Col. Whereas Kravtsov has done very well in the KHL since he went back. He and Goldobin are tied for 21 in KHL scoring this year. He is a skilled hockey player, and he might yet eke out a successful NHL career. He'd be 25 when (if) he returns. I would think throwing a 2 year $1.75M 2 way contract at him would be a damn good low risk. With say a $1M AHL salary. But pretty sure if we sent him to the minors he could be claimed on waivers.

 

[F A N]

The difference between 'refine', 'develop' or 'improve'. A dictionary might help.

I think in common usage and in the context of a soon-to-be 25 year old hockey player, there's a big difference between "refine" and "develop."

For what it's worth, I don't think the Kravtsov's issue is his defence. I would agree that it's something he can improve and not have that hold him back.

But the career of Valeri Nichushkin might offer glimmer of hope. He was a high draft pick of Dallas (10th overall in 2013). And after his career fell off a cliff with the Stars, he went back to KHL and played two seasons. And they were pretty underwhelming--24 points in 2016-17; and 27 points in 2017-18.

But he came back to the NHL and has had a pretty solid seven-year career with Colorado. So Kravtsov (9th overall by the Rangers in 2018) still may offer some hope. And the Canucks still own his rights.

Ignoring his off-ice issues, Nichushkin came back to the NHL and put up zero goals and 10 points in 57 games - worse than before he left - and then improved over the next two years. It's unlikely that his time spent in the KHL was any type of a boost to his career.

yep, Kravtsov is not following the same trajectory. He is doing better in the KHL. Way better. And Nichushkin never did well in Dallas. He broke out in Col. Whereas Kravtsov has done very well in the KHL since he went back. He and Goldobin are tied for 21 in KHL scoring this year. He is a skilled hockey player, and he might yet eke out a successful NHL career. He'd be 25 when (if) he returns. I would think throwing a 2 year $1.75M 2 way contract at him would be a damn good low risk. With say a $1M AHL salary. But pretty sure if we sent him to the minors he could be claimed on waivers.

Nichushkin isn't necessarily a bad comparison as opportunities and player development likely were factors early on. But it's like saying [insert prospect] can improve his skating like Horvat.

But since VanJack was talking about Kravtsov's defence, Nichushkin was good defensively and was strong on the puck by the time he joined Colorado. He just happened to Gaunce it in his last year in Dallas.

 

[MS]

This is the Edmonton Oilers of threads where you think it couldn't possibly get worse and then it does.

 

[God]

If Nikolai Kulemin can secure a PTO at age 38 after years in Russia, I'm sure Kravtsov can get back to the NHL too.

 

[iceburg]

this takes me back...

Kirill Koltsov Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Kirill Koltsov, a hockey player from Chelyabinsk, Russia born Feb 1 1983 who was active from 1998 to 2019.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

This is the Donald Trump of threads where you think it couldn't possibly get worse and then it does.

Look, having Kravstov—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the Kravstov deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (Kravstov is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.

 

[Lindgren]

This is the Edmonton Oilers of threads where you think it couldn't possibly get worse and then it does.

Great edit!