Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
22,852
16,346
What are you talking about? The discussion (which you raised) is whether Kravtsov can "refine" his two-way 200 foot game. Tocchet can "co-exist" with any player. The fact that he can "co-exist" with a player is irrelevant to the discussion as it doesn't mean Kravtsov can/has refined his two-way 200foot game and that Tocchet will play/utilize such player.
Granted it was only a limited sample size, but in his brief stint with the Canucks his defensive game wasn't all that bad. It was offense, where he delivered almost nothing.

And clearly he didn't want to play another season in the AHL. So he went back to Russia where he could earn more money. But maybe with the benefit of more pro experience in the KHL, he can 'improve', 'develop', or 'refine' his two-way game?

We're arguing about 'semantics' here.
 

RobertKron

Registered User
Sep 1, 2007
16,291
10,008
Granted it was only a limited sample size, but in his brief stint with the Canucks his defensive game wasn't all that bad. It was offense, where he delivered almost nothing.

And clearly he didn't want to play another season in the AHL. So he went back to Russia where he could earn more money. But maybe with the benefit of more pro experience in the KHL, he can 'improve', 'develop', or 'refine' his two-way game?

We're arguing about 'semantics' here.

What part of this argument was semantic, exactly?
 

Lindgren

Registered User
Jun 30, 2005
6,416
4,533
The difference between 'refine', 'develop' or 'improve'. A dictionary might help.
Many probably don't know that a dictionary is a book (or an on-line equivalent) that lists words alphabetically and provides definitions and etymologies. The Oxford (commonly referred to as the OED) lists definitions chronologically, from the first known use of a word to its most current. Most others list the definitions in order of contemporary frequency.
 

RobertKron

Registered User
Sep 1, 2007
16,291
10,008
The difference between 'refine', 'develop' or 'improve'. A dictionary might help.
But you're the only one who has introduced these terms (uh, and I'm pretty sure you first introduced two of them in the paragraph immediately above your claim that the argument was about semantics). Did you quote @F A N by accident, and you were actually for some reason telling us that you're currently locked in the throes of a semantic argument with yourself?

@F A N and @Lindgren were very clearly disagreeing with the premise of your statement rather than your chosen terminology.
 
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VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
22,852
16,346
But you're the only one who has introduced these terms (uh, and I'm pretty sure you first introduced two of them in the paragraph immediately above your claim that the argument was about semantics). Did you quote @F A N by accident, and you were actually for some reason telling us that you're currently locked in the throes of a semantic argument with yourself?

@F A N and @Lindgren were very clearly disagreeing with the premise of your statement rather than your chosen terminology.
We need to reach an accommodation. I'll stop reading your posts if you stop reading mine.

If the purpose of this forum is to share 'hockey' opinions, then forcing people to actually read these exchanges is a waste of everyone's time.

But since this is supposed to be a discussion about Kravtsov's game, I understand what thoughtful posters are saying. It's unlikely he'll ever 'refine' his game to return to the NHL.

But the career of Valeri Nichushkin might offer glimmer of hope. He was a high draft pick of Dallas (10th overall in 2013). And after his career fell off a cliff with the Stars, he went back to KHL and played two seasons. And they were pretty underwhelming--24 points in 2016-17; and 27 points in 2017-18.

But he came back to the NHL and has had a pretty solid seven-year career with Colorado. So Kravtsov (9th overall by the Rangers in 2018) still may offer some hope. And the Canucks still own his rights.
 
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RobertKron

Registered User
Sep 1, 2007
16,291
10,008
We need to reach an accommodation. I'll stop reading your posts if you stop reading mine.

If the purpose of this forum is to share 'hockey' opinions, then forcing people to actually read these exchanges is a waste of everyone's time.

But since this is supposed to be a discussion about Kravtsov's game, I understand what thoughtful posters are saying. It's unlikely he'll ever 'refine' his game to return to the NHL.

But the career of Valeri Nichushkin might offer glimmer of hope. He was a high draft pick of Dallas (10th overall in 2013). And after his career fell off a cliff with the Stars, he went back to KHL and played two seasons. And they were pretty underwhelming--24 points in 2016-17; and 27 points in 2017-18.

But he came back to the NHL and has had a pretty solid seven-year career with Colorado. So Kravtsov (9th overall by the Rangers in 2018) still may offer some hope. And the Canucks still own his rights.
Ignoring his off-ice issues, Nichushkin came back to the NHL and put up zero goals and 10 points in 57 games - worse than before he left - and then improved over the next two years. It's unlikely that his time spent in the KHL was any type of a boost to his career.
 

ChilliBilly

Registered User
Aug 22, 2007
7,329
4,637
chilliwacki
Ignoring his off-ice issues, Nichushkin came back to the NHL and put up zero goals and 10 points in 57 games - worse than before he left - and then improved over the next two years. It's unlikely that his time spent in the KHL was any type of a boost to his career.
yep, Kravtsov is not following the same trajectory. He is doing better in the KHL. Way better. And Nichushkin never did well in Dallas. He broke out in Col. Whereas Kravtsov has done very well in the KHL since he went back. He and Goldobin are tied for 21 in KHL scoring this year. He is a skilled hockey player, and he might yet eke out a successful NHL career. He'd be 25 when (if) he returns. I would think throwing a 2 year $1.75M 2 way contract at him would be a damn good low risk. With say a $1M AHL salary. But pretty sure if we sent him to the minors he could be claimed on waivers.
 

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