Confirmed Trade: [VGK/ANA] Shea Theodore for the selection of Clayton Stoner

[tomd]

We were all ripping him pretty good throughout the playoffs if I recall correctly

yes, probably unfairly given that he is 21 and thrown into the pressure cooker of the NHL playoffs. Barring injuries he should have been in SD.

 

[Professor John Frink]

just based off his play thus far. i know he's only 21 and will probably become a solid d-man but he showed nothing aside from some offense and was pretty horrid in his own end.

Same thing was said about Cam Fowler. Offense instincts you can't teach, but you can teach Theo to become a much more complete NHL player over time.

Again, don't downplay a player just traded just because. I'd say 30 other NHL teams would lock Theo in their top 4 or 5 as a 21 year old. Theo just happened to end up playing for the NHL defense factory known as the Ducks.

 

[Synergy27]

You sure about that? Theo can rush the puck, thats about it. He's absolutely awful in his own zone. Sami is good in all areas of the ice, when he's on his game.

Rushing the puck and "possession" are all that matter these days. Did you not get the memo?

 

[playasRus]

Lol

Epic fail. Vegas fans should be pissed.

The idea of someone becoming a fan instantaneously and being devoted enough in the span of a few months of the teams existence to be upset about a win-win trade is funny to me.

I'd have threatened to take Vats over a dump + budding D for that extra 2nd/3rd round pick. I mean, not only do you take a lesser player, but a dump too...

 

[McDonald19]

Again, don't downplay a player just traded just because. I'd say 30 other NHL teams would lock Theo in their top 4 or 5 as a 21 year old. Theo just happened to end up playing for the NHL defense factory known as the Ducks.

I disagree. He isn't a 4, 5 right now. Vegas would be smart to give him time in the AHL while he is waiver exempt.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

He's pretty meh lol

 

[Topkatz]

Not buying the trade 3/2 (and Bieksa waiving his NMC to be bought out) for forwards theory. Teams would know Anaheim would be under pressure to trade lowering those players value.

Props to the GM though. He outsmarted Vegas and called their bluff and turned a position of weakness to a position of power.

 

[Backpack]

yes, probably unfairly given that he is 21 and thrown into the pressure cooker of the NHL playoffs. Barring injuries he should have been in SD.

As fans, we will rip on any player who is underperforming. Of course Theo will improve his game. I just dont see that high of an upside in him. Could I be wrong? Absolutely.

 

[nucksauce]

This was the best player addition LV made tonight IMO, the guy is a stud. 21 and NHL ready with lots of room to grow, could be as good as Pietrangelo down the road.

Anaheim is fortunate to be so rich on the blue line. I could see them hating this decision down the road especially if they move Vatanen and the return doesn't work out so well.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I disagree. He isn't a 4, 5 right now. Vegas would be smart to give him time in the AHL while he is waiver exempt.

I think that's a given with all their D. Even they trade a few they'll still have enough for next year.

This one's a bit of a tough pill to swallow, but might be for the best. Have to see what happens with Vatanen, not sure he goes anymore but IMO he still probably should. Losing Stoners deal and the Despres buyout cleared cap space in a hurry, have to see what Murray does with it.

 

[ScarTroy]

This was the best player addition LV made tonight IMO, the guy is a stud. 21 and NHL ready with lots of room to grow, could be as good as Pietrangelo down the road.

Anaheim is fortunate to be so rich on the blue line. I could see them hating this decision down the road especially if they move Vatanen and the return doesn't work out so well.

We may hate this move down the road, but that's what happens when you are competing for a cup in the present. Not to say we won't be later, but this was a move that doesn't weaken us at all at the moment. Actually helps us open cap space.

 

[Not So Mighty]

Yeah bad call. Basically Theodore + Stoner in order to protect Kerdiles.

Not at all. If Vegas would have taken Kerdiles over Vatanen and Manson, we would have gladly hung on to Theodore.

 

[McDonald19]

This was the best player addition LV made tonight IMO, the guy is a stud. 21 and NHL ready with lots of room to grow, could be as good as Pietrangelo down the road.

Anaheim is fortunate to be so rich on the blue line. I could see them hating this decision down the road especially if they move Vatanen and the return doesn't work out so well.

You will be disappointed. He still needs to learn how to play defense.

 

[Godzlaf]

I don't. Does anyone think he was anything other than god awful in the PO's?

True, but the it's hardly fair to judge a prospect defensively when he is brought up for the highest level of tournament play in the world. His end to end rushes were impressive, though. Not too many NHL guys can dance like that.

 

[biotk]

Vatanen understood D zone coverage at 21.

Fowler understood D zone coverage at 18.

Fowler is soft like Theodore, but has gotten a little better at that part of the game.

Vatanen at the same age:

"The diminutive defenseman has excellent offensive abilities. He’s everything that Justin Schultz was going to be. Vatanen has very good speed and is an excellent skater. He is creative with the puck and can definitely lead a successful breakout. He doesn’t have the hardest shot but it’s very accurate. He needs work in his own end, just like Schultz."

"Vatanen is a bit of a mixed package overall, his limited size at 5’10 has made him vulnerable to the physical game of the AHL, but his tremendous playmaking ability and vision makes him a threat to any opposing team. He had a tremendous 2012-13 season and was an AHL First All-Star team member and the Norfolk Admiral’s top defensive scorer. However, despite his fantastic 45 points in 62 games he was an even plus-minus. That is going to be the story with Vatanen, at least for now. He will bring you tremendous breakouts and puck moving but his defensive game is always going to be a knock."

"A small and talented defenseman. An excellent skater who understands the game well and is useful on powerplay. Needs to improve physically."

The HF thread on Vatanen went completely dead during the couple games he played in 2012/2013 and his 2013/14 season. Picked up when Vatanen was 23. Ducks fans seemed to think he was good on the PP, but otherwise a 3rd pairing D.

 

[Godzlaf]

I think Theo needs to be developed properly. He is almost there, but if Vegas ****s this up and doesn't round him out it's going to be a damn shame.

 

[Volica]

Honestly, should have just taken Manson or Vatanen.
Manson you could control for the next 5+ years anyway...

Although, if Theodore pans out, this'll be good for Vegas. Two of those trades tonight had me going 'but... why?'

IF you picked up Manson or Vatanen and Dumba... There would be teams out there more than willing to pay for their services; especially if you're looking for picks.

 

[Exit Dose]

IF you picked up Manson or Vatanen and Dumba... There would be teams out there more than willing to pay for their services; especially if you're looking for picks.

Yes, they would, and that's why he made the trade that he did.

 

[PAZ]

This is a fair deal IMO. Anaheim had some leverage due to so many prospects being NHL ready and Bieksa a scapegoat. They just needed to trade Vatanan.

 

[State of Hockey]

Manson over Theodore? Excuse me? On what planet is that a better idea. Manson single-handedly was trying to lose his team games during the playoffs. He's four years older. He doesn't have nearly the pedigree as Theodore. He doesn't have high offensive skills. It's a no-brainer to take Theodore over Manson. Vatanen is a closer call (and probably was agreed not to happen), but again I can see taking the chance on Theodore. Vatanen has declined and can't stay healthy (one leads to the other).

 

[Unholy]

Manson over Theodore? Excuse me? On what planet is that a better idea. Manson single-handedly was trying to lose his team games during the playoffs. He's four years older. He doesn't have nearly the pedigree as Theodore. He doesn't have high offensive skills. It's a no-brainer to take Theordore over Manson. Vatanen is a closer call (and probably was agreed not to happen), but again I can see taking the chance on Theodore. Vatanen has declined and can't stay healthy (one leads to the other).

This person doesn't watch these players enough. Not enough for a statement like that.

 

[Backpack]

Vatanen at the same age:

"The diminutive defenseman has excellent offensive abilities. He’s everything that Justin Schultz was going to be. Vatanen has very good speed and is an excellent skater. He is creative with the puck and can definitely lead a successful breakout. He doesn’t have the hardest shot but it’s very accurate. He needs work in his own end, just like Schultz."

"Vatanen is a bit of a mixed package overall, his limited size at 5’10 has made him vulnerable to the physical game of the AHL, but his tremendous playmaking ability and vision makes him a threat to any opposing team. He had a tremendous 2012-13 season and was an AHL First All-Star team member and the Norfolk Admiral’s top defensive scorer. However, despite his fantastic 45 points in 62 games he was an even plus-minus. That is going to be the story with Vatanen, at least for now. He will bring you tremendous breakouts and puck moving but his defensive game is always going to be a knock."

"A small and talented defenseman. An excellent skater who understands the game well and is useful on powerplay. Needs to improve physically."

The HF thread on Vatanen went completely dead during the couple games he played in 2012/2013 and his 2013/14 season. Picked up when Vatanen was 23. Ducks fans seemed to think he was good on the PP, but otherwise a 3rd pairing D.

Vatanen was a "diamond in the rough", whereas Theo was always projected to be a top 4 D. Their development cant be compared one-to-one.

Right now, I'd say Theo has been downgraded from "likely top 4", to "let's see if he becomes an NHL regular". Again, I could be totally wrong, we shall see.

 

[Tecumseh]

Manson over Theodore? Excuse me? On what planet is that a better idea. Manson single-handedly was trying to lose his team games during the playoffs. He's four years older. He doesn't have nearly the pedigree as Theodore. He doesn't have high offensive skills. It's a no-brainer to take Theodore over Manson. Vatanen is a closer call (and probably was agreed not to happen), but again I can see taking the chance on Theodore. Vatanen has declined and can't stay healthy (one leads to the other).

This take is so hot that my eyeballs burst into flames upon reading these words.

 

[Sojourn]

A pretty bizarre comment. Theodore was playing in the postseason. He had some issues, but he was second in points among Anaheim D (1 point behind Fowler). Montour is definitely better right now, but at the same time Montour was 3 months shy of turning 23 before playing his first NHL game. Theodore has played 53 regular season games and 20 playoff games and is still only 21 (At the same age Theodore was in the playoffs Vatanen had played 3 career NHL games before being returned to the AHL).

He is an amazing prospect.

Theodore was playing in the post-season due to injuries. Let's be clear on that. He also wasn't good. Don't let his point total fool you. He put up some pretty good numbers, but he was pretty bad in most aspects of the game. He's a very good prospect. He isn't an amazing one. I wouldn't call Steel or Larsson amazing prospects either. An amazing prospect is blue chip, and a blue chip prospect is basically an elite, can't miss type. Theodore is not that caliber.

I happen to think very highly of Theodore, but he's a source of frustration too. His defense is poor. He avoids contact like he's afraid the other skaters are contagious. He makes some questionable decisions. All that being said, he is a high end talent, with a lot of potential. Let's leave it at that.

As for the comparison between Vatanen and Theodore, Vatanen was in the Finnish Elite League. That's why he was a bit older before he finally made it into the NHL. Even when he was ready, there was an adjustment period for him. More than that, development is very different player to player. Vatanen not only came into the NHL, but he improved pretty consistently, this last season being the one exception. Theodore still has to prove he can do that. I wish him the best of luck in Vegas, and I hope he has that breakout season and really starts to put it together. He was just behind a lot of players in Anaheim. Even if Vatanen is traded, Theodore is behind Fowler, Lindholm, Manson, and Montour. He'd be behind Bieksa on the depth chart for anything defensive in nature, and I think Larsson might get a nice, long look in training camp.

 

[Sojourn]

Manson over Theodore? Excuse me? On what planet is that a better idea. Manson single-handedly was trying to lose his team games during the playoffs. He's four years older. He doesn't have nearly the pedigree as Theodore. He doesn't have high offensive skills. It's a no-brainer to take Theodore over Manson. Vatanen is a closer call (and probably was agreed not to happen), but again I can see taking the chance on Theodore. Vatanen has declined and can't stay healthy (one leads to the other).

On this planet, where teams are trying to win hockey games. If you're taking Theodore over Manson, you're very much the minority. For Vegas, it makes sense because they are a new team and they need to start stocking young prospect talent. For the rest of the teams, Manson is an easy choice over Theodore.

Manson doesn't need high end offensive skills. His role is defense. Anaheim has Montour, Lindholm, Vatanen(maybe), and Fowler for offense from the blue line. Vatanen had a tough season. It isn't a decline until he can't show that he can bounce back.