Post-Game Talk: Vancouver 5 | Colorado 2: Bolorado is over. Onward to Bolifornia.

[DCantheDDad]

You're wrong. Fisher is a perfect example; Jordan is not because he always shoots well. Fisher's shooting percentage on buzzer beaters versus his standard shooting percentage was over 10% higher. Go ahead and look it up. I'm sure that info is with your study.

This apparent study either doesn't exist, it's been misinterpreted, or it's incorrect.

I have a PhD in psychology and it's pretty basic logic here.

I completely agree with you here. There are some people who cannot handle pressure situations. Whether that necessarily applies to specific NHLers is up for debate, but in general, there are people who handle the intensity better than others and some who fall apart completely.

 

[Verviticus]

This is true as well. These are examples of this phenomenon:

if you have a random system filled with weighted dice or balls or whatever, you will generate the same results as what happens in real life sports systems. that someone has more clutch plays does not indicate that they are, in the future, going to be more clutch

indeed, every year there are dozens of players with Amazing Clutch Performances that then fizzle off and never do it again. the guys that randomly do it two years in a row develop reputations but they arent any more likely to do it in year 3 than anyone else (significantly)

 

[Jack Tripper]

watching this game, you just really wish chris higgins could play the way he did tonight just a bit more consistently...such a great second line player when he's on his game, but he'll go into 5-10 game streaks where he doesn't come close to how effectively he played tonight

hard to argue with the effort of the forward group right now, proving that secondary scoring will be the least of this team's concerns

 

[Verviticus]

watching this game, you just really wish chris higgins could play the way he did tonight just a bit more consistently...such a great second line player when he's on his game, but he'll go into 5-10 game streaks where he doesn't come close to how effectively he played tonight

hard to argue with the effort of the forward group right now, proving that secondary scoring will be the least of this team's concerns

he's quite probably the most consistent player on the team

 

[Regal]

I'm calling ******** on this.

There is, without a doubt, people who perform better than others in high pressure situations. This includes everyone on the planet, including NHL players.

I've seen comparisons of baseball players in "clutch" situations, which are easily evaluated in the sport, specifically targeting supposed clutch players, and there doesn't seem to be a statistically significant difference in the numbers.

There are definitely differences in the way people react to pressure situations, but it could be entirely possible that anyone who reacts negatively is simply weeded out by the time they get to the top professional leagues to the point where any differences are negligible.

With your degree you should also know how easy it is for people to create narratives in our minds to try to make sense of random stimuli. When we see someone making clutch plays, we associate them with those plays and once that association is made, it's easy to continue feeding that narrative with every subsequent clutch play while ignoring any failures.

 

[DarrenX]

I can't remember the references right now, but there is done research on this and he/she is right. Statistically it has not been proven that there are players who are especially good or bad in certain situations.

It's one of these illusions people make up in their heads - trying to explain the "world".

This is correct. Whenever anyone has statistically analyzed the performance of any so-called "clutch" players, in any sport, it turns out that their performance is no different in "pressure situations" (however this is defined) than it is at any other time. (Nick Bonino scored two goals last night because he's playing really well right now. That is all).

Maybe you or I get flustered under pressure, but the people who make the NHL aren't like us. Players who genuinely can't perform under pressure (of a situation, not plays of opposing players) are weeded out long before they get to the NHL. Players don't just decide to "elevate their game" either... if Nick Bonino could score two goals per period at will, why doesn't he just do it all the time?

Sports performance is underlying skill + randomness. However, humans don't like randomness, and need to make narratives out of random events, and we've been doing it since the dawn of time. An excellent book that discusses the cognitive biases lead to these narratives is: "Thinking Fast and Slow".

Some references:
http://research.sabr.org/journals/the-statistical-mirage-of-clutch-hitting
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/923262-debunking-the-myth-of-clutch-in-the-nba-once-and-for-all
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1356550-debunking-the-myth-of-the-clutch-nfl-quarterback

 

[TheWanderer]

missed the game. What were the lines?

Higgins - Bonino - Vey were together for those two goals, I think that line deserves to remain intact even with Burrows' return. Stick Burrows in the bottom 6 to improve it defensively.

Burrows - Richardson - Hansen
Dorsett - Horvat - Kassian

 

[yoss]

The battle over whether clutch is a real thing or not rages on.

Game tying goal may not have hit Horvat but he got the ball rolling on the play plus his stick under the Avs player's stick in front caused the tip in, so I give him credit for that goal in a roundabout way.

Went out after the first period, what a pleasant surprise waiting for me on the ol dvr when I got home. Great game, stormed right back; 5 unanswered is quite a few. That first Bonino goal was a thing of beauty. If Nucks do well vs. Cali (ie: wins, not moral victories) I will officially be getting my hopes up for this team.

I like that the first period rather than 2nd is now the bad Canuck period, gets it out of the way faster. They rode momentum into the 3rd imo from the first goal, thought Nucks carried play in the second. To be fair, Avs seemed to be a fragile team and came unraveled a bit also.

 

[Jyrki21]

I have a theory on Kassian's under-use: Cody Hodgson's dad is blackmailing the Canucks' organization so that his son looks good by comparison.

Have to echo the idea that Horvat will be the one to sit. I also think he's 99.9% getting sent back to junior unless he scores like 50 goals during his 9 games, though, if only for roster management issues.

That said, I don't know why squad rotation is such a dirty concept in hockey. I would like to see everyone sit out a game here or there – best players included – just to give them a bit of a rest and let bruises heal. All the more, it shouldn't be controversial when a 3rd or 4th line regular takes all of one game off to let another guy play a bit.

 

[701]

missed the game. What were the lines?

Higgins - Bonino - Vey were together for those two goals, I think that line deserves to remain intact even with Burrows' return. Stick Burrows in the bottom 6 to improve it defensively.

Burrows - Richardson - Hansen
Dorsett - Horvat - Kassian

I'm thinking that, in managing the room, the coach wouldn't keep Kassian on the 4th line
for long when his play this season is becoming reliably much better than that. You have to
be seen to be fair. Although a line of Dorsett-Horvat-Kassian could be fun to watch.

It's a nice problem to have when you don't really have any "old school" 4th-liners in the lineup,
yet the team has toughness anyway. I guess that's the whole point of Benning and Willy, and it
will also help prolong the useful career of the Sedins.

 

[GrogZilla]

The ballsy move i would like to see next game:

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Higgins Bonino Vey
Matthias Richardson Kassian
Dorsett Horvat Hansen

sit Vrbata

1) His play actually deserves it as much as anyone on the team the last few games.
2) He might actually need a wake up call
3) & most importantly, no-one could complain about sitting for the rest of the season

Having said that, I doubt very much that it happens

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

The ballsy move i would like to see next game:

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Higgins Bonino Vey
Matthias Richardson Kassian
Dorsett Horvat Hansen

sit Vrbata

1) His play actually deserves it as much as anyone on the team the last few games.
2) He might actually need a wake up call
3) & most importantly, no-one could complain about sitting for the rest of the season

Having said that, I doubt very much that it happens

i love it. also, unless burrows and the sedins light it up like it's 2010, give kassian some 4 or 5 consecutive shifts with the big boys.

 

[The Optimist]

I loved the teams reaction to the Matthias goal. Kassion looked really happy for him. And on the bench guys were coming up to him and congratulating him. Much more than usual in a blowout. Team bonding is definitely present and they look like they are having fun out there.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

The ballsy move i would like to see next game:

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Higgins Bonino Vey
Matthias Richardson Kassian
Dorsett Horvat Hansen

sit Vrbata

1) His play actually deserves it as much as anyone on the team the last few games.
2) He might actually need a wake up call
3) & most importantly, no-one could complain about sitting for the rest of the season

Having said that, I doubt very much that it happens

actually, what i'd do is give daniel a maintenance game. vrbata gets the message loud and clear, and you see whether the absence of daniel's extremely predictable game, and a pissed off and bitter burrows buzzing around the ice, shows us something in vrbata we haven't seen yet.

 

[BuzzBuzz]

You're wrong. Fisher is a perfect example; Jordan is not because he always shoots well. Fisher's shooting percentage on buzzer beaters versus his standard shooting percentage was over 10% higher. Go ahead and look it up. I'm sure that info is with your study.

So you are making your conclusion based on a sample size of 1?

This apparent study either doesn't exist, it's been misinterpreted, or it's incorrect.

I have a PhD in psychology and it's pretty basic logic here.

From journal of Psychology of Sport and Exercise:

Objectives
The sport psychology literature recognizes the existence of clutch behavior among elite athletes. The present study questions the validity of the clutch reputation in basketball. The performance of clutch players was compared to that of their teammates, using a broad approach that included different performance measures.

Design
Eight basketball experts ranked NBA players according to their perceived reputation of being clutch shooters. The selection procedure resulted in a sample of 16 clutch players who had successfully made a game-deciding shot, or had made a successful shot in the final few minutes to tie the game, during the 2003-2006 seasons.

Method
Data were collected from play-by-play reports of 222 tied NBA games during the 2005-2006 season and playoffs. Data were reduced to the final five minutes of the second and fourth quarters in each close/tied game. A MANOVA and several ANOVAs were conducted in order to compare the performance measures of the clutch players and the average of their teammates, in game phases of low and high pressure.

Results
The reported main effects of clutch versus non-clutch players suggest a superior performance of the clutch players. The results also show that the clutch players improved their performance in the final, most decisive phase of the game, which could be interpreted as evidence for clutch ability. However, the clutch players did not improve their general shooting skills, as might have been expected.

Conclusions
Top NBA players, like most other people, do not perform better under pressure situations, at least not while considering their chances of making a shot, but clutch players do influence the end-result of the game in other aspects.

 

[MrShift4]

I am still buzzing over the victory last night


But my gut is churning on who sits out the next game.

 

[Barney Gumble]

I am still buzzing over the victory last night


But my gut is churning on who sits out the next game.

It's a good "problem" to have though. Compare that to trying to insert whatever plug that is available to just fill a spot open.

 

[IntangiBo]

But my gut is churning on who sits out the next game.

It will be easy, we can all blame Sbisa for giving someone the flu.

 

[alicia]

It's a good "problem" to have though. Compare that to trying to insert whatever plug that is available to just fill a spot open.

I agree, this is fantastic depth. We haven't seen the likes of it since the 2011 run.

 

[Kickassguy]

Ditto MS. Bo's probably the most obvious choice to sit next game.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

watching this game, you just really wish chris higgins could play the way he did tonight just a bit more consistently...such a great second line player when he's on his game, but he'll go into 5-10 game streaks where he doesn't come close to how effectively he played tonight

hard to argue with the effort of the forward group right now, proving that secondary scoring will be the least of this team's concerns

Higgins does play that way consistently every game. And has pretty much since he came here. He's not the most talented guy on the team but, IMO he's the hardest working. Great to see him and Bonino with such great chemistry.

 

[tantalum]

I loved the teams reaction to the Matthias goal. Kassion looked really happy for him. And on the bench guys were coming up to him and congratulating him. Much more than usual in a blowout. Team bonding is definitely present and they look like they are having fun out there.

I agree and more to the point this is why Kassian even if he doesn't develop much beyond what he is now is a decent addition. The sticking his nose into scrums and using the crazy eyes. The genuine elation when a teammate who has been working hard gets that goal. He is a team guy through and through and that is worth something.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

What is sitting Vrbata going to accomplish aside from taking the third leading scorer out of the line-up against the toughest teams in the league?

Vrbata is going to disappear for stretches, if he didn't he'd be a 7.5 million dollar player who wasn't available to the Canucks. However he's still playing well along the board, in the cycle and in the defensive zone. He's also still getting 4-5 shots on net even in his slow stretches.

Taking Vrbata out of the line-up or out of the top six is dumb.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

I agree and more to the point this is why Kassian even if he doesn't develop much beyond what he is now is a decent addition. The sticking his nose into scrums and using the crazy eyes. The genuine elation when a teammate who has been working hard gets that goal. He is a team guy through and through and that is worth something.

I love Kassian, he's definitely my favorite Canucks player. My question is how is he supposed to develop into more than he is now if he's being played as nothing more than a third line grinder?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

higgins + bonino + burrows = redundant wingers

higgins + bonino + hansen = one substandard winger (for top six purposes)

higgins + bonino + vey, or possibly also kassian = using higgins and his skillset effectively