This is stupid logic. The Penguins aren't a contending team anymore, so paying anything or taking any sort of losing deal to get out of a contract at this point is just dumb asset management.
Bad teams don't pay to get out of bad deals. Bad teams acquire bad deals to get assets for them.
I'm not sure what you are even talking about.
Mikheyev is a middle six defensive forward signed to a cheaper deal than Reilly Smith.
We are shaving cap and acquiring a decent enough shorter term contract that better fits where Smith will likely play on our roster.
This trade solves a lot.
Mikheyev had 30 points in 79 games last year and then had 0 points in 11 playoff games.
And we are shaving 2+ million off our cap.
I see a terrible proposal from a Canucks fan and a Penguins fan with homer glasses so thick he might as well be blind.
They're shaving off $2+ million from the cap because they're trading 2 players for 1. What about the guy you're replacing Graves with? That's costing more than $2 million.
You seem to still be bitter that your team lost to the Oilers last night.
I'm arguing why it makes no sense for the Penguins. I don't really care whether it makes sense for the Canucks or not, because I'm just looking at it from how I think it impacts my team. If Canucks fans don't want to do it either, that's good with me.
Yeah, but it makes a lot more sense for the Penguins to spend 6 million on an actual 2nd LHD instead of paying 4.5 on a guy who as soon as he went out of the line-up the Penguins went on a run.
You just keep moving the goalposts for whatever way you can justify this.
Mikheyev does nothing for the Penguins, as if they'd acquire him in this kind of swap, they'd just immediately be trying to find a way out of his deal. If Mikheyev filled any sort of short-term role for the Penguins, I could easily see a justification for this. But he doesn't. They need to move out from Smith's deal so they can add another top-9 winger to play with Crosby, swapping Smith for Mikheyev accomplishes nothing towards that and it gives them a winger with an extra year.
I'm absolutely fine with swapping Graves for another bad contract, but Mikheyev is absolutely not the kind of guy you do that with. Go talk to Carolina and see if they'd do this exact deal for Kotkaniemi (so Smith at $3 million and Graves for Kotkaniemi), I can easily justify that because Kotkaniemi actually fills a need for the team.
Mikheyev was recovering from an injury all season. I’d rather take a bet on him finding a Carl Hagelin like role with the Pens over Ryan Graves suddenly turning into an effective contract. Getting out of Smith’s deal too is just icing on the cake.
Absolutely moronic take.
I've already explained ad-nauseam why it makes no sense for the Penguins. If you want to ignore those reasons, I guess you do you.
I know Penguins fans are upset with how poor Graves was last year, and even Dubas noted that Graves had a bad year, but I'm also not really seeing any sort of benefit for them to move him in a negative value type of move. They haven't made the playoffs in either of the last 2 years and their big guns aren't getting any younger. Unless the Penguins are trading Graves for a better player with a worse contract (like Huberdeau for example) or getting assets for swapping him for a worse contract, there's really not much of a reason to move him.
No sort of bad deals matter for the Penguins in 3+ years anyway, so I have no issues with getting an awful long-term deal for a better player today or getting some picks for taking a worse contract. But paying to get out of his deal, even if the kind of payment is something like "lose $2 million in cap space and downgrade your roster"? Like what's the point there?
The kind of deals I'd be fine with regarding Graves are like Graves for Kotkaniemi, Graves+ for PLD or Graves+ for Huberdeau. If those aren't available, I don't really see any sort of reason to move him.
He's Tyler Myers, but dumber and with no upside.
The idea with acquiring PLD and Kotkaniemi is dumping cap and getting a piece you can potentially move in a few years for some type of return.
Ryan Graves is never returning anything. If you can get out of the contract you do it as quickly as possible. It's Jack Johnson 2.0.
I mean...Mikheyev had a terrible season and still had more points than KK last year. Wasn't that far off PLD either even. He also had literally an almost identical number of even strength points despite playing about twenty less games.
I think you're underrating Mikheyev as a quality Top-9 Winger. He's frustrating, but he's big and fast and his finishing ability is pathetic...but he still gets there and creates chances.
Sorry why wouldn't you want a top 4, under 30, huge, right shot defensive dman for 5 yrs?I'd rather have Mikheyev for another 2 years than Graves for another 5, maybe if the Pens retain a lot
Sorry why wouldn't you want a top 4, under 30, huge, right shot defensive dman for 5 yrs?
How is 4.5 mil for a top 4 RD atrocious?I mean, you're taking on Ryan Graves.
That contract is atrocious from the moment it was signed.
But again, the Penguins don't need a "quality top-9 winger". They need a 3C or a top line winger. Kotkaniemi makes sense because he can fill that 3C role while PLD has huge upside that Mikheyev doesn't have.
Oh fair enough. Left shot. Been a top 4 dman on three different teams, over 5 seasons. So definition of top 4.Graves isn't a right shot, nor is he really a "top-4" defenseman.
Oh fair enough. Left shot. Been a top 4 dman on three different teams, over 5 seasons. So definition of top 4.
Sorry why wouldn't you want a top 4, under 30, huge, right shot defensive dman for 5 yrs?
Oh fair enough. Left shot. Been a top 4 dman on three different teams, over 5 seasons. So definition of top 4.
I mean...i'd disagree on the idea of Kotkaniemi being a quality 3C. He's a tweener. He's a very bad 2C and a useless 3C. I don't know what his role even is, on a contending team.
PLD...i can understand the idea. When he gives a shit...he's a Top-6C and a good one too. But that also seems like a super awkward fit with the Penguins given their current setup. Is he really going to push one of Croz/Geno to the wing? Like...no. Obviously not. So he'll be just as annoyed and disinterested as he's been in LA.
Mikheyev's upside is baby smol. But if you have a guy your GM likes who is responsible 2-ways and can put together 20G and score at the same sort of rate as those "high upside" guys despite less games and basically no powerplay time...that's not "nothing".
Literally yes. Not sorta but exact definition top 4.Not really.
He's been a top 4 every season of his career except his rookie yr.I would! Let me know where I can find one, because Graves is a bottom pairing LHD.