Raptors Discussion: v97 Raptor's 2024-2025 - Training camp begins Oct. 1

[Suntouchable13]

They will probably hire his assistant, I forgot his name, who went to coach Indiana for 1 year then got fired and came back. That’s my guess. Or is there an intriguing name out there that is available? I wonder which way Masai goes.

 

[John Price]

just makes no sense to fire Nick Nurse

 

[robertmac43]

Ime Udoka already a rumoured front runner for the replacement. Could be interesting.

 

[Jozay]

Nurse wasnt perfect, but this is really the front offices fault.

 

[Bjindaho]

They will probably hire his assistant, I forgot his name, who went to coach Indiana for 1 year then got fired and came back. That’s my guess. Or is there an intriguing name out there that is available? I wonder which way Masai goes.

Ime Udoka is the first name that comes up and had been speculated as soon as Nurse hinted he might not come back.

 

[donghabs98]

Nurse got a lot out some teams that weren't expected to do much (19-20,21-22) but it became clear that there was a disconnect between him and management and his message was getting stale to the players. I imagine this is the first domino.

 

[Bjindaho]

Nurse wasnt perfect, but this is really the front offices fault.

No, no it isn't.

Nurse isn't even effectively coaching his starting lineup, let alone anyone else.

The lack of depth was a lack of depth that Nurse was willing to use.

 

[KPower]

Masai didn’t like Nurse shooting his mouth off with 2 weeks left in the season.

 

[Bjindaho]

Masai didn’t like Nurse shooting his mouth off with 2 weeks left in the season.

I am of the opinion that Nurse was gone without that. Without saying a word, the Dowtin situation made him a liability to the organization as a whole.

 

[stickty111]

The right move. Nurse was a fantastic coach but he got worse and worse, and the front office and him didn't agree on some things. It was best to move on.

 

[Jozay]

No, no it isn't.

Nurse isn't even effectively coaching his starting lineup, let alone anyone else.

The lack of depth was a lack of depth that Nurse was willing to use.

Front office took years to address the center situation, never addressed the lack of shooting or the bench.

You're really gonna tell me you wanted to see more Malachi Flynn minutes?

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Was likely the right time, but him coaching the team to the championship afforded him lots of time in my eyes. Thanks for everything, Nick.

 

[Bjindaho]

Front office took years to address the center situation, never addressed the lack of shooting or the bench.

You're really gonna tell me you wanted to see more Malachi Flynn minutes?

Siakim plays centre. He absolutely has the size to. On top of that, there is Achiuwa and Koloko as centres.

The lack of shooting on the bench is directly related to putting 5 shooters on the floor and then complaining that there is no centre. On top of that, there were guys like Hernangomez on the bench who can shoot (but isn't a 3 and D wing so Nurse refused to play him).

The real issue here is that a shooter wasn't allowed on the floor unless he fit Nurse's system like a glove.

We STILL can't properly evaluate Flynn because we know that he doesn't fit Nurse's system, but we don't know if he could run a different system.

 

[GoonieFace]

Siakim plays centre. He absolutely has the size to. On top of that, there is Achiuwa and Koloko as centres.

The lack of shooting on the bench is directly related to putting 5 shooters on the floor and then complaining that there is no centre. On top of that, there were guys like Hernangomez on the bench who can shoot (but isn't a 3 and D wing so Nurse refused to play him).

The real issue here is that a shooter wasn't allowed on the floor unless he fit Nurse's system like a glove.

We STILL can't properly evaluate Flynn because we know that he doesn't fit Nurse's system, but we don't know if he could run a different system.

Flynn shows flashes, at worst he’s a bench guy that can play 10-12 minutes. But Nurse refused to play anyone other than the starting 5. Hard to grow a player when they rot on the bench.

Than we have Masai who not only doesn’t trade guys he should have traded, but gives up a 1st rd pick for Poetl. Although I like him, the move made no sense

 

[fancy lad]

We STILL can't properly evaluate Flynn because we know that he doesn't fit Nurse's system, but we don't know if he could run a different system.

Flynn seems pretty criminally underused. Especially considering they looked so crappy at the PG position and Fred was terrible at getting the rest of the team involved.

 

[Jozay]

Siakim plays centre. He absolutely has the size to. On top of that, there is Achiuwa and Koloko as centres.

The lack of shooting on the bench is directly related to putting 5 shooters on the floor and then complaining that there is no centre. On top of that, there were guys like Hernangomez on the bench who can shoot (but isn't a 3 and D wing so Nurse refused to play him).

The real issue here is that a shooter wasn't allowed on the floor unless he fit Nurse's system like a glove.

We STILL can't properly evaluate Flynn because we know that he doesn't fit Nurse's system, but we don't know if he could run a different system.

Siakam isnt a center, he'd be an undersized one anyway. Him consistently playing the position would've been way too physically demanding on him considering how much they rely on him offensively.

Achuiwa is also undersized as a center and Koloko is a rookie who at best had some moments. I doubt either of these guys could've consistently gave the Raptors good minutes at center.

Mentioning a guy like Hernangomez only proves the point that the front office provided shit depth for Nurse.

 

[donghabs98]

Ime Udoka is the first name that comes up and had been speculated as soon as Nurse hinted he might not come back.

I gotta think he's likely coming here with all the rumors and the quality of coach we're letting go.

They will probably hire his assistant, I forgot his name, who went to coach Indiana for 1 year then got fired and came back. That’s my guess. Or is there an intriguing name out there that is available? I wonder which way Masai goes.

 

[donghabs98]

The right move. Nurse was a fantastic coach but he got worse and worse, and the front office and him didn't agree on some things. It was best to move on.

He got a lot from some flawed teams but at some point when management and coach dont align its time for a change. Management made some questionable personnel decisions which was made worse by player usage. Cant go young when the coach keeps a short bench and can't be competitive when you dont bring in a center and the coach wants one.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Thanks for all you did Nick. You were a HUGE part of us winning the title, not sure it would have happened without you!

 

[Bjindaho]

Siakam isnt a center, he'd be an undersized one anyway. Him consistently playing the position would've been way too physically demanding on him considering how much they rely on him offensively.

Achuiwa is also undersized as a center and Koloko is a rookie who at best had some moments. I doubt either of these guys could've consistently gave the Raptors good minutes at center.

Mentioning a guy like Hernangomez only proves the point that the front office provided shit depth for Nurse.

Siakim is 1-2 inches shorter than Valuncianas with a significantly longer wingspan to offset the 30lb difference. Toronto's best unit pre-trade deadline was the one with Koloko playing Poetl's role.

Again, the issue here isn't the result, it is that Nurse didn't want to play Koloko at all.

Management has provided him with countless shooters in the past couple of years and he's found ways to underuse them because they don't play enough D within his specific system.

Edit: Nurse wanted every shooter to be a Powell type player, but they have become valuable so they make too much to build the roster that Nurse coaches unless you can either keep drafting them or UDFA your way to them.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

The right time to move on. Shouldn't absolve the front office of their mistakes, but with the team needing a re-set in roster composition and playing style, it's a good time to get a different voice and vision. Sounds like he had lost a few guys in the room, which happens. Coaches have a shelf-life, he reached his here. Doesn't take away the good. Hope he gets the gig in Houston and enjoys it.

 

[Jozay]

Siakim is 1-2 inches shorter than Valuncianas with a significantly longer wingspan to offset the 30lb difference. Toronto's best unit pre-trade deadline was the one with Koloko playing Poetl's role.

Again, the issue here isn't the result, it is that Nurse didn't want to play Koloko at all.

Management has provided him with countless shooters in the past couple of years and he's found ways to underuse them because they don't play enough D within his specific system.

Siakam has a 7'3 wingspan while JV has a 7'5 wingspan. Siakam just doesnt have the strength to consistently defend centers.

Koloko had problems defending without fouling, so even if you think he should've played more he would just get into foul trouble.

As for providing shooters, yeah the front office can bring a guy like Matt Thomas in, but that doesnt mean he's good enough to play.

 

[Bjindaho]

Siakam has a 7'3 wingspan while JV has a 7'5 wingspan. Siakam just doesnt have the strength to consistently defend centers.

Koloko had problems defending without fouling, so even if you think he should've played more he would just get into foul trouble.

As for providing shooters, yeah the front office can bring a guy like Matt Thomas in, but that doesnt mean he's good enough to play.

Thomas finished 31st in eFG in year one and would have been about mid-pack in year 2 for his time as a Raptor. Of course, he played 10 minutes in year 1 and 7 in year 2.

Again, if you can't defend the system, Nurse doesn't play you.

You cannot argue that there is no depth without any attempt to deploy the depth players in a system that they can play in.

I would have been fine with switching Dowtin's contract and hope he is back on a one-way to compete for backup PG. What I don't like is having these young kids with potential and having Nurse decide that winning a few regular season games matters more than developing them.

 

[hamzarocks]

Its time for a proper rebuild

 

[Jozay]

Thomas finished 31st in eFG in year one and would have been about mid-pack in year 2 for his time as a Raptor. Of course, he played 10 minutes in year 1 and 7 in year 2.

Again, if you can't defend the system, Nurse doesn't play you.

You cannot argue that there is no depth without any attempt to deploy the depth players in a system that they can play in.

I would have been fine with switching Dowtin's contract and hope he is back on a one-way to compete for backup PG. What I don't like is having these young kids with potential and having Nurse decide that winning a few regular season games matters more than developing them.

I agree that Nurse isnt exactly a development coach, but there isnt much talent to develop anyways. Flynn is probably the only one worth actually living with the ups and downs. Koloko looked more like a guy who needed to develop in the G league.

Dowtin, as far as I can tell, was a FO decision, Nurse did use him. Not sure why he didnt get his contract converted.

At the end of the day, the depth players provided just werent very good.