Raptors Discussion: v95|Masai's back! The panic and dread can now end.
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GoonieFace
Registered User
Blah blah, angry Suggs, Barnes can’t shoot. This sums up the thread. Mostly from people who haven’t seen Barnes play a single game and watched the Gonzaga highlites of Suggs hitting a half court shot
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
Barnes had one of the longest wingspans, largest hands, highest verts, and quickest shuttle runs at the combine. He was one of four freshmen in the last 15 seasons to post a 10/4/4 in the ACC (Cole Anthony, RJ Barrett, Dennis Smith Jr). The kid is 6’9 (with shoes) and he considers himself a pg. How often do you see that? Then add in all the glowing reviews of his personality and how he’s Magic levels of unselfish, but has the mentality to want to work on his finishing ability. He just sounds like that guy you want to have on your team.
Imagine toronto fans questioning the one front office that delivered. f*** it yo all aboard barnes. These guys are smart.
Woodman19
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2008
- 18,704
- 2,272
This reminds me of Josh Rosen vs. Josh Allen a few years ago in the NFL draft. The raw athletic freak oozing with intangibles and work ethic vs. the NCAA proven high floor big name.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
A lot of the fuss seems to be over the fact that the media pressed this as a "4 player draft". But this wasn't like, say, 2003 where you had LeBron, Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, and Darko at the top and then a big step down to everyone else in the round. Cunningham, Green, Mobley, and Suggs were identified as the top tier of talent, but they all have issues and flaws. None are game-breaker, franchise-changer level players. Suggs in particular is known to not be a great shooter and perhaps be more of a high floor/lower ceiling player than the other 3 in that set.
Plus Barnes, and to a lesser extend Kuminga, have been right there nipping at the heels of that group for a while. Barnes was 3rd on John Hollinger's board (ahead of Suggs). And was the big upside pick of the lottery behind perhaps only Mobley.
People keep applying terms like "reach" or the Raptors "getting cute" but that doesn't seem to be true. Is it a surprise they didn't take Suggs when most of the mocks had him going 4th to the Raptors? Sure. But we've also had some reminders that mocks and consensus aren't infallible and that if you just follow the mocks and popular picks you can end up like the Sacramento Kings who mostly acquiesced to conventional wisdom and have a near decade and a half playoff drought to show for it.
The Raptors have been a very good drafting team in the Ujiri era. They like a guy who was rated close to where they picked more than the guy who was rated at where they picked. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing before wringing my hands and going "oh my god but what if Suggs wins ROTY? Raptors screwed the pooch and made a silly pick because they wanted to play smartest GM in the room!" when that's a dubious take at best.
Plus Barnes, and to a lesser extend Kuminga, have been right there nipping at the heels of that group for a while. Barnes was 3rd on John Hollinger's board (ahead of Suggs). And was the big upside pick of the lottery behind perhaps only Mobley.
People keep applying terms like "reach" or the Raptors "getting cute" but that doesn't seem to be true. Is it a surprise they didn't take Suggs when most of the mocks had him going 4th to the Raptors? Sure. But we've also had some reminders that mocks and consensus aren't infallible and that if you just follow the mocks and popular picks you can end up like the Sacramento Kings who mostly acquiesced to conventional wisdom and have a near decade and a half playoff drought to show for it.
The Raptors have been a very good drafting team in the Ujiri era. They like a guy who was rated close to where they picked more than the guy who was rated at where they picked. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing before wringing my hands and going "oh my god but what if Suggs wins ROTY? Raptors screwed the pooch and made a silly pick because they wanted to play smartest GM in the room!" when that's a dubious take at best.
Barnes is definitely the happiest of all the draft picks.
IceColdBear
Registered User
- Apr 5, 2016
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The Barnes pick is made - how should we handle the rest of the off-season?
FVV-Trent-OG-Siakam-C
Bench: Barnes, Boucher, Flynn, Birch
Going in to free agency, our needs are:
1. Starting C
2. PG to pair with Vanvleet - we can't rely on Flynn
3. SG/SF that can come off the bench and create offense.
Options:
Starting C: There's basically nothing available. Nerlens Noel is the best fit in free agency, but will likely be overpaid. Theis is another name here.
PG: Obviously if Lowry's willing to re-sign at reasonable terms, do it. I would promise Lowry that if he signs here and we're out of the playoffs at the deadline, we'd trade him to whatever team he wants. If not, get what we can for him in a sign and trade. Cameron Payne is a UFA who could make sense as well. I like the idea of Lonzo Ball too, his D fits what we're trying to build and he could be a long-term fit here. Some sort of Lowry & Lonzo mutual sign and trade could make sense for both teams. I think what Lonzo brings to the table would compliment Vanvleet nicely.
SG/SF: Otto Porter Jr, Tony Snell. Powell & Hardaway Jr are out there, but likely too expensive for us. Not a lot available in our price range here, either.
FVV-Trent-OG-Siakam-C
Bench: Barnes, Boucher, Flynn, Birch
Going in to free agency, our needs are:
1. Starting C
2. PG to pair with Vanvleet - we can't rely on Flynn
3. SG/SF that can come off the bench and create offense.
Options:
Starting C: There's basically nothing available. Nerlens Noel is the best fit in free agency, but will likely be overpaid. Theis is another name here.
PG: Obviously if Lowry's willing to re-sign at reasonable terms, do it. I would promise Lowry that if he signs here and we're out of the playoffs at the deadline, we'd trade him to whatever team he wants. If not, get what we can for him in a sign and trade. Cameron Payne is a UFA who could make sense as well. I like the idea of Lonzo Ball too, his D fits what we're trying to build and he could be a long-term fit here. Some sort of Lowry & Lonzo mutual sign and trade could make sense for both teams. I think what Lonzo brings to the table would compliment Vanvleet nicely.
SG/SF: Otto Porter Jr, Tony Snell. Powell & Hardaway Jr are out there, but likely too expensive for us. Not a lot available in our price range here, either.
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Maple Leaf
VIP
- Sep 18, 2009
- 10,206
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I like Alec Burks for a guy who always seems to come cheap and can get buckets off the bench. He’s older than you’d like, but cost vs production, he always seems to offer good value.
Also think there’s an opportunity with Jarrett Allen now that the Cavs drafted Mobley. He’s an RFA so they could match any offer, but they might value those minutes for Mobley assuming they plan to start him right away. Can’t imagine Allen wants to come off the bench on a re-building Cleveland team.
Honestly, being really mad about the Raptors taking Barnes over Suggs, is pretty dumb. I'm a bit confused and slightly disappointed myself, but I can't be angry, or say it was a dumb, or wrong decision.
Pretty sure Masai knows that shooting the ball is important, and he either thinks Barnes will develop it, or he can work around enough to still be an elite player.
While I would have picked Suggs and thought it was the right call, I wasn't all that excited about it. He doesn't have any real standout qualities that make you believe he'll be an elite player, and his potential looks to me like an upgraded version of FVV. That's great and all, but we already have regular FVV, and Suggs wouldn't really provide in the areas we are really lacking.
Pretty sure Masai knows that shooting the ball is important, and he either thinks Barnes will develop it, or he can work around enough to still be an elite player.
While I would have picked Suggs and thought it was the right call, I wasn't all that excited about it. He doesn't have any real standout qualities that make you believe he'll be an elite player, and his potential looks to me like an upgraded version of FVV. That's great and all, but we already have regular FVV, and Suggs wouldn't really provide in the areas we are really lacking.
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tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
For anyone who thought winning this draft lottery was going to mean a quick turnaround for next season, the long term play of drafting Barnes combined with Siakam and the team both looking for a fresh start, and Lowry leaving, almost guarantees this team will be tanking for Chet/Banchero/Hardy in 2022.
I think this can be a quick re-tool, and back to contending in the east if it’s done right, and I trust Masai and Bobby to do it right.
I don't know if tanking is the right word, but we will definitely be taking a step back.
Which honestly, is the correct call.
Gotta say though, the idea of adding Chet Holmgren, or even Jalen Duran is very appealing. One of those 2 + Barnes + Boucher sets up our 4+5 spots nicely for the future.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
We are still missing 2 vital pieces that every contender needs: a reliable go to scorer, and a rim-protecting C. The FA and trade markets this year are weak for finding a go to scorer, and even if it wasn't, the Raptors still have massive difficulties selling top FAs from other teams on Toronto, not even Masai and Bobby have been able to change that.
In terms of finding a rim-protecting C, I trust that Masai and Bobby will not make the same mistakes they did last year with Baynes and Len, however last year I also trusted that they would find adequate replacements for Gasol and Ibaka, so we'll have to see. I guess this also relates to how Toronto isn't a desirable destination for top FAs from other teams. Last year we had to resort to scraps after the top FA Cs went to more desirable markets. This year I'm expecting more of the same from the top FA rim protectors available like Richaun Holmes and Nerlens Noel.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Duran could be a riser but next year's headliners other than Chet are Paolo Banchero and Jaden Hardy, and I doubt that will change. Cade, Green and Mobley were the top 3 ranked high school recruits last year and stayed top 3, next year it will likely be a similar story with Chet, Banchero and Hardy leading the rankings all year.
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I think Duran is still projected to be in or around the top 5.
I just don't expect us to get the same lottery luck this year
Media Availability: Scottie Barnes - July 30, 2021
July 30, 2021
Toronto Raptors
Scottie Barnes - the Raptors' 4th overall pick in the 2021 NBA Draft - speaks with the media Friday.
razor ray
Registered User
- May 8, 2011
- 1,636
- 1,802
Yes…..I think the only miss was Canadian L. Dort getting passed in the first round. That was one I knew was a miss when he did not pick him.
As far as upside Barnes has it. Suggs will be better next year and probably year two but Barnes will be better after that.
CatchyTune
JOHN TAVARES IS A MAPLE LEAF
I agree we need a PG if Lowry leaves, but Flynn should be given a fair amount of playing time especially with this being a re-tooling year potentially. Important to develop what we have. We might also see Fred as a SG, as he has that ability.
CatchyTune
JOHN TAVARES IS A MAPLE LEAF
This looks like a very weak FA class for centers. Jarrett Allen is a good target, but he is an RFA. I wouldnt be totally against a rebounding guy like Drummond. But we typically go after C's who can stretch the floor.
If we lose Lowry it will hurt, but maybe a vet like Patty Mills with Malachi also getting a fair amount of minutes?
If we lose Lowry it will hurt, but maybe a vet like Patty Mills with Malachi also getting a fair amount of minutes?
razor ray
Registered User
- May 8, 2011
- 1,636
- 1,802
Sources: Free-Agency Spotlight on CP3, the 'Lowry Domino,' Emerging PG Carousel
“Until Lowry is off the board and Ben Simmons has been traded, don't discount the possibility of Sixers sign-and-trade with Raptors.”
“Scottie Barnes pick seemingly reinforces Siakam's availability for trade.”
“Until Lowry is off the board and Ben Simmons has been traded, don't discount the possibility of Sixers sign-and-trade with Raptors.”
“Scottie Barnes pick seemingly reinforces Siakam's availability for trade.”
stickty111
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2017
- 27,260
- 34,233
You missed one part. Apparently Portland and Toronto have discussed a Siakam and McCollom framework.
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