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Utah HC plans for Delta Center renovations and downtown SLC getting pushback. [UPD 7/9: SLC approves deal unanimously]

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TheLegend

TheLegend

Hangman's booking agent... he'll do anything.
Aug 30, 2009
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I can’t speak for the inner workings of SLC’s municipal government, but as the article lined out it was merely a negative recommendation. Those are pretty easy to brush aside or work around with city councils in many circumstances, so might be less than a hiccup.
 
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From the above story:

However, the speed of the project appeared to be the biggest concern. Commissioners said it took years of planning to complete some of the other major zoning changes that the city recently approved. The proposed changes in front of them only began in April, about the same time Utah officially landed a National Hockey League team.
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err - isn't the fact it can take years to make zoning changes actually a huge problem? We're not talking about construction itself (which can understandably takes years) but just zoning - which is just a matter of amending some laws or bylaws?

I've got no dog in this fight, but "whoa whoa whoa - shouldn't this process take years" is a terrible take.
 
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Yukon Joe said:
From the above story:



err - isn't the fact it can take years to make zoning changes actually a huge problem? We're not talking about construction itself (which can understandably takes years) but just zoning - which is just a matter of amending some laws or bylaws?

I've got no dog in this fight, but "whoa whoa whoa - shouldn't this process take years" is a terrible take.
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There’s a little more to it.

Apparently a few of the buildings within the proposed zone have significant historical meaning to a lot of residents. It’s noted in the story.

I suspect the planning commission is taking that into consideration with their decision.

Personally I think it will get worked out. It’s not going to stop Delta Center from getting renovated since it’s already there. It’s just the sweeping changes around it and giving Smith Entertainment Group the sole rule over it that has some people wondering.
 
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TheLegend said:
There’s a little more to it.

Apparently a few of the buildings within the proposed zone have significant historical meaning to a lot of residents. It’s noted in the story.

I suspect the planning commission is taking that into consideration with their decision.

Personally I think it will get worked out. It’s not going to stop Delta Center from getting renovated since it’s already there. It’s just the sweeping changes around it and giving Smith Entertainment Group the sole rule over it that has some people wondering.
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No, that's fine. I can understand the objection.

It's the notion that it should take "years" to sort this out that I would object to.
 
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Yukon Joe said:
No, that's fine. I can understand the objection.

It's the notion that it should take "years" to sort this out that I would object to.
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Unlike the private sector government is accountable to a lot of different stakeholder groups with conflicting interests. In the private sector you're only accountable to your shareholders who just want to make money and are generally rich people. In government you're accountable to the rich, poor, and everything in between. So when Amazon is looking at putting an office with a bunch of high paid people there and some developer wants to build high end housing to accommodate them, government employees have to think about the roads and transit to get all those people to and from work, as well as the people who be making coffee at the cafeteria in the new office building.

That's the big thing people don't realize about government employees. They don't just work for the rich guy. They also work for the people who make their coffee.
 
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aqib said:
Unlike the private sector government is accountable to a lot of different stakeholder groups with conflicting interests. In the private sector you're only accountable to your shareholders who just want to make money and are generally rich people. In government you're accountable to the rich, poor, and everything in between. So when Amazon is looking at putting an office with a bunch of high paid people there and some developer wants to build high end housing to accommodate them, government employees have to think about the roads and transit to get all those people to and from work, as well as the people who be making coffee at the cafeteria in the new office building.

That's the big thing people don't realize about government employees. They don't just work for the rich guy. They also work for the people who make their coffee.
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So at the risk of outing myself - I work for government. I have for many years/ You're completely right. I have multiple stakeholders I need to try and keep, if not happy, at least mollified.

But when I have to make a decision it can't happen instantly - but it doesn't take years either.
 
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Yukon Joe said:
So at the risk of outing myself - I work for government. I have for many years/ You're completely right. I have multiple stakeholders I need to try and keep, if not happy, at least mollified.

But when I have to make a decision it can't happen instantly - but it doesn't take years either.
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I work in government too. So it's not always the internal processes and procedures thats the issue. It's the number of different groups we have to consult with and get buy in from or at least check the box that we talked to them before we can do anything major. You also have to leave items open for people to comment on even if at most it will be one guy like Arthur Thurston from Glendale (to be honest I miss that guy)
 
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aqib said:
Unlike the private sector government is accountable to a lot of different stakeholder groups with conflicting interests. In the private sector you're only accountable to your shareholders who just want to make money and are generally rich people. In government you're accountable to the rich, poor, and everything in between. So when Amazon is looking at putting an office with a bunch of high paid people there and some developer wants to build high end housing to accommodate them, government employees have to think about the roads and transit to get all those people to and from work, as well as the people who be making coffee at the cafeteria in the new office building.

That's the big thing people don't realize about government employees. They don't just work for the rich guy. They also work for the people who make their coffee.
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You actually expect us to believe what you wrote, that the government in looking out for the little guy? Seriously?
 
Look Up said:
You actually expect us to believe what you wrote, that the government in looking out for the little guy? Seriously?
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I'm not talking about elected officials in DC who get campaign contributions from billionaires. I am talking about the person in the planning department in City Hall. Or other people derisively called "bureaucrats".

I say this as someone who had spent 6 years working on figuring out ways to get affordable housing built.
 
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TheLegend said:
Appears SLC and SEC have worked thing out.

On the surface it looks like a decent public/private deal.

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

SEG set to finalize deal that keeps Jazz, Utah Hockey Club in Salt Lake City

A deal being finalized by owner Ryan Smith and Salt Lake City would have the Utah Jazz and Utah Hockey Club play at the Delta Center for the next 30 years.
www.sportsbusinessjournal.com www.sportsbusinessjournal.com
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I wonder how Neil deMausse at Field of Schemes is going to spin this as a disaster for Utah taxpayers, because no matter how fair a deal is he is going to bash it.
 
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aqib said:
I wonder how Neil deMausse at Field of Schemes is going to spin this as a disaster for Utah taxpayers, because no matter how fair a deal is he is going to bash it.
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PHX paid like $160 mill of the $250 mill cost to renovate Footprint to add 15 years onto the lease for the suns which is basically $11 mill per additional year. This is considerably more and for a 30 year extension. If it is the same 60/40 split, that would cost the city $540 mill for the 30 years, which is like $18 mill per year. But, increased cost due to structural changes vs cosmetic ones.
 
Wait...so you actually CAN negotiate with your local municipality to do things to help your sports franchise?

Mind-boggling. :sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
 
aqib said:
I wonder how Neil deMausse at Field of Schemes is going to spin this as a disaster for Utah taxpayers, because no matter how fair a deal is he is going to bash it.
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It’s just another windmill he can make a charge at to gather a few more dollars for his website.
 
TheLegend said:
It’s just another windmill he can make a charge at to gather a few more dollars for his website.
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There one story where a minor league soccer team in New York was going to lease land from a community college that wasn't using it for 20 years to build a temporary soccer stadium and then dismantle it in 20 years and return the land in its original condition. The school would also get the rights to use the stadium a few times a year. He still hated on that deal.
 
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BKIslandersFan said:
So they are going to renovate instead of build new arena?
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It opened in 1991 so it’s not a super old arena like Reunion or Mcnichols in Dal and Col.

A year older than AZ one. AZ preferred to tear down and build new to accommodate both nhl and nba rather than renovate. But suns didn’t want to which I can’t blame them on a pure business POV. Why drop from 100% to 50% of arena rev?

So interesting decision. Have to fix structure then modernize. So not inexpensive to do.
 
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StreetHawk said:
It opened in 1991 so it’s not a super old arena like Reunion or Mcnichols in Dal and Col.

A year older than AZ one. AZ preferred to tear down and build new to accommodate both nhl and nba rather than renovate. But suns didn’t want to which I can’t blame them on a pure business POV. Why drop from 100% to 50% of arena rev?

So interesting decision. Have to fix structure then modernize. So not inexpensive to do.
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If it was minor renovation, like adding suites and things like that sure.

But its needs a sturctural change, figure building new arena might make more financial sense.
 
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BKIslandersFan said:
If it was minor renovation, like adding suites and things like that sure.

But its needs a sturctural change, figure building new arena might make more financial sense.
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The issue is there is not a space downtown for a new arena and both Smith and the local govt want to keep both teams downtown vs moving out to the suburbs so they are going to renovate/expand the current arena
 
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BKIslandersFan said:
If it was minor renovation, like adding suites and things like that sure.

But its needs a sturctural change, figure building new arena might make more financial sense.
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That’s why AZ preferred building new vs renovation. It’s going to be expensive.
 
I don't know why you'd pay attention to what he says anyways. He opposes everything and yet never wins in the end. I heard him speak once at a conference and he seemed to imply if you make any money off of public investment you should have to pay the government back for that investment and then enjoy your gains years into the future. It made me think about all the suburban train stations in major cities and how they often lead to apartment and retail development. He seemed to indicate government should aggressively tax and surcharge them to pay back all the transit investments, when the opposite tends to happen. If you want light rail in your city, he'd say hey go find some developers and ask them for billions and then you can have your train line.
 
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