UPDATE - Muzzin placed on LTIR

[ACC1224]

He didn’t, NHL made an exception because they cancelled games because of Covid.
If no cancellations he would of done the 24/10.

 

[Bluelines]

What’s the earliest he could come back?

 

[justloveleafs]

Good friend of mine sees Jake's grandpa frequently, might be able to get a bit of info. I like Muzzin, but he has not been himself this season. Might be best if he takes a lot of time off. Best for him I mean.

 

[CDN24]

Maybe we don't have enough good blueliners again - seems like a perennial observation.

Oh well, we can still trade away our 1st or 2nd I guess. Just a thought, but the draft would be pretty weird this summer if we only stepped up to the podium for a 7th round selection.

If you trade that 1st and 2nd you may as well give the amateur scouting the next 4 months off and select the highest player left on Central Scouting's list. (use autodraft so to speak)

 

[ULF_55]

If you trade that 1st and 2nd you may as well give the amateur scouting the next 4 months off and select the highest player left on Central Scouting's list. (use autodraft so to speak)

How valuable is a pick in the late 20's?

Would teams prefer a prospect who already exceeds expectations?

Mind you when you combine a 26th. 1st. and a 13th. - 16th. first you might be able to move into the top 10.

If the Leafs can't get goaltending back on track, it is a waste, unless that 1st. is used for a permanent player, or RFA.

 

[CDN24]

How valuable is a pick in the late 20's?

Would teams prefer a prospect who already exceeds expectations?

Mind you when you combine a 26th. 1st. and a 13th. - 16th. first you might be able to move into the top 10.

If the Leafs can't get goaltending back on track, it is a waste, unless that 1st. is used for a permanent player, or RFA.

That is the question, while there is usually one or two good players drafted in the last 10 slots of the 1st round of the draft there are also a lot of duds. Realistically you probably have to have 5 picks in the 20s to get a top 6 F, top4 d or starting G

2005- Had Rask and Oshie but also had 5 guys who never played 100 games
2006 had Giroux and Nick Foligno but also had 6 guys who never played 100 games
2007 Had Pachioretty and Perron but also had 4 guys who never played 100 games
2008 had Eberle and John Carlson but also had 5 guys who never played 100 games
2009only had 3 of 10 guys play more than 200 games (john Moore, Marcus Johnnson, and Kyle Palmeri)
2010 had Kusnetsov, Coyle and brock Nelson and a bunch of very avg guys
2011 had Danault and Rackell and 5 guys who never made 100 Games
2012 Had Tanner Pearson Oli Matta and Brady skeji again not much earth shattering
2013 Had shea Theodore and not much else
2014 had Pasternak but rest are very avg or worse

So 10 years where we are at least 7 yrs past draft where we know what the player eventually became and it looks like There are some great players taken in that slot but maybe 1 or 2 a year on average There are also probably close to 5 duds selected with those 10- picks. So if you pick in the 20's for 10 years you probably get 2 guys that are either a top 6 F top 4 D or starting G. 5 duds and 3 serviceable NHLers. You might get real lucky and get a Giroux /Pasternak/Rask but don't bank on it.

What does this all mean, we tend to overvalue late 1st rounders based on a tendency to "fall in love with our prospects" we draft a guy at 25th and the talking heads are comparing him favorably to star player X but in reality that is only potential.

So one 1st round pick is not really worth that much, but if you want to have a steady stream of youth coming in the organization you cannot trade them away every year or you will find yourself with a aging team of soon to become UFA's with no internal pipeline to replace. Then you are stuck overpaying UFAs and find yourself in a Cap hell.
Where teams really get in trouble is when they end up is when they are trading a pick that is 2 years out and due to circumstances it is unprotected and then they have a bad year. (think Ottawa drafting 3rd (stutzle) with San Jose's unprotected 1st rounder.)

 

[Mess]

At the beginning of the season I feared and suggested that if the Leafs lost one of Rielly or Muzzin for any extended length of time this year the Leafs would struggle defensively with a top 3 of Rielly/Muzzin & Broadie and Holl as their remaining top 3.

We are about to find out how this will impact the team with Muzz on LTIR.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

At the beginning of the season I feared and suggested that if the Leafs lost one of Rielly or Muzzin for any extended length of time this year the Leafs would struggle defensively with a top 3 of Rielly/Muzzin & Broadie and Holl as their remaining top 3.

We are about to find out how this will impact the team with Muzz on LTIR.

Team played far far better in CLB then against Habs or Blues .. not saying it will hold up but eye test was clear

 

[mydnyte]

At the beginning of the season I feared and suggested that if the Leafs lost one of Rielly or Muzzin for any extended length of time this year the Leafs would struggle defensively with a top 3 of Rielly/Muzzin & Broadie and Holl as their remaining top 3.

We are about to find out how this will impact the team with Muzz on LTIR.

Muzzin has been bad more often than even just average this season.
he's played more like a #6 than a #3 d-man but, we dont have a #3 to replace him either, just a bunch of (currently) 5-6's not ready for heavier work load yet guys, who are going to get initiated and see what they are made of.

 

[zeke]

translation: "take it easy, kucherov, see you in the playoffs"

 

[zeke]

At the beginning of the season I feared and suggested that if the Leafs lost one of Rielly or Muzzin for any extended length of time this year the Leafs would struggle defensively with a top 3 of Rielly/Muzzin & Broadie and Holl as their remaining top 3.

We are about to find out how this will impact the team with Muzz on LTIR.

You sure did say that, Mess.

So what do you think about the fact that in the 9 games Muzzin has missed this year, the leafs are 6-2-1 ?

 

[tmlms13]

Dear Gary Bettman
Is this what you envisioned with your cap? Fans who are happy when players get injured so they can put them on LTIR? Superstars (kutcherov) who are healthy enough to play but don't because a team wants extra cap space. GMs, Media, Fans who talk about a player's cap hit as much as what he does on the ice.
Signed
Everyone except for about 5 owners


It's pathetic what this entire league has become.

 

[Mess]

Muzzin has been bad more often than even just average this season.
he's played more like a #6 than a #3 d-man but, we dont have a #3 to replace him either, just a bunch of (currently) 5-6's not ready for heavier work load yet guys, who are going to get initiated and see what they are made of.

Agreed, Leafs had only 3 top 4 Dmen on their roster and just lost one, and a bunch of 5-7 bottom pairing guys to swap around of which I include Holl in that group.

Muzzin and Holl our so called 2nd pairing have both struggled this year with consistency individually and as a pairing.

Muzzin however when playing at his level is a solid top 4 Dman on almost every team in the NHL. Now missing its going to force everyone below his skillset to play above their level and pay grade.

I suspect this injury is going to make Dubas more aggressive in pursuit of help on D, but until that happens we are going to see what some of these younger players are made of when they start facing higher level of QofC then they're use to in a sink or swim scenario.

 

[Mess]

Team played far far better in CLB then against Habs or Blues .. not saying it will hold up but eye test was clear

After being embarrassed by the last place team in the NHL the night before falling behind 5-0 to Montreal, you would have expected a bounce back performance the next game, well at least I did.

Leafs did play a better overall game against CBJ in a loss, then they did against Montreal and STL also in losses no doubt.

Now it will be interesting how things shake out because after the Rielly/Brodie pairing things are going to get interesting. IMO

 

[Ports]

I think the Leafs seriously need to ask themselves -- "do we see paying Jake Muzzin $5.65m next year to be the best use of our limited cap space?". I suspect, with the way Sandin has played and how Muzzin has played this year, the answer to that is no, event despite Muzzin's toughness and playoff experience.

Yes, the Leafs could go out and acquire an $8m defenceman with Justin Holl going the other way if they had double-retention...but that would almost certainly limit themselves to guys on a 1-year deal, as teams are generally adverse to retaining over multiple years.

What I think this injury has done, is possibly push Muzzin's "medium term" future -- not with the Leafs. If you view Muzzin as an "own rental" that you'll have to move in the offseason, then his LTIR space allows the Leafs to go out and get somebody like a Jacob Chychrun, Connor Murphy, Damon Severson or Adam Larsson...a guy with term at a reasonable cap hit, that likely fits into next year's vision of the top 4 with Rielly, Brodie, and Sandin. Heck, maybe even Dermott finds a way to stick around as the Leafs don't really have anyone else coming through the pipeline on the left side.

Muzzin has full NTC until July 2023 then he has a partial NTC so he’ll be a Leaf next season.

 

[ToneDog]

Big brained Mess realizes that losing your second best D would be a problem for the Leafs.

However, with how poorly Muzzin has played this season its not as big of a loss and provides them the benefit of possibly adding another top 4 D for the playoffs, a luxury they wouldnt have had prior.

Hate losing Muzzin but the Muzzin injury is a gift from the hockey Gods to Dubas. All of a sudden he can add top 6 forward or a much better dman than Muzzin (if he is smart).

 

[Ports]

was wondering that exact same thing.

LTIR minimum is 10 games and 24 days.

 

[Ports]

If you trade that 1st and 2nd you may as well give the amateur scouting the next 4 months off and select the highest player left on Central Scouting's list. (use autodraft so to speak)

If they do trade those picks, it doesn’t mean they can’t acquire some picks before the draft as they likely will have to dump some salary before next season anyway.

 

[seanlinden]

Muzzin has full NTC until July 2023 then he has a partial NTC so he’ll be a Leaf next season.

Ultimately, the Leafs do have the threat of waivers on him. If they want him gone, they'll find a way to make it work.

 

[ACC1224]

Ultimately, the Leafs do have the threat of waivers on him. If they want him gone, they'll find a way to make it work.

If he is waived won't he still count against the cap?

 

[Leafsfan74]

Dear Gary Bettman
Is this what you envisioned with your cap? Fans who are happy when players get injured so they can put them on LTIR? Superstars (kutcherov) who are healthy enough to play but don't because a team wants extra cap space. GMs, Media, Fans who talk about a player's cap hit as much as what he does on the ice.
Signed
Everyone except for about 5 owners


It's pathetic what this entire league has become.

IMO the hard cap is pathetic.

Bring in a luxury cap and let some semblance of a free market reign.

If teams want to burn $30M more and help fund smaller markets, why not let them?

 

[seanlinden]

If he is waived won't he still count against the cap?

Not if somebody picks him up.

It's worth noting that once his signing bonus for this year is paid, he's only got $6m left to be paid over 2 seasons. I think a lot of non-cap teams would be more than happy to have his veteran leadership for $3m/season to their pocketbook.

It's a little bit of a game of chicken.... would Muzzin rather have his choice of destination? or end up free to any team, with the worst teams having first crack?

 

[Ports]

Ultimately, the Leafs do have the threat of waivers on him. If they want him gone, they'll find a way to make it work.

That’s not the way this organization treats their players though. I don’t disagree with your sentiment but no players would want to sign here believing the NTC had any value to them if the team didn’t honour it.

 

[Ports]

Not if somebody picks him up.

It's worth noting that once his signing bonus for this year is paid, he's only got $6m left to be paid over 2 seasons. I think a lot of non-cap teams would be more than happy to have his veteran leadership for $3m/season to their pocketbook.

It's a little bit of a game of chicken.... would Muzzin rather have his choice of destination? or end up free to any team, with the worst teams having first crack?

So if he doesn’t get claimed they send him to the Marlies? Not a good look for a team that prides itself on treating its players well. Who’s next Tavares ?

 

[Ports]

If he is waived won't he still count against the cap?

All except $1.25M which they would save if he’s not claimed.