Tyson Barrie

[OwenNolan]

Instead of every thread getting taken over by the Tyson Barrie argument why not discuss in one thread.

I posted this in a different thread:

Again, you're not seeing the big picture.

It's not just trading Barrie for the sake of it. It's trading Barrie and acquiring a cost controlled asset for a player who we may have troubles extending to a long term deal.

That and are we comfortable giving Barrie a 7+ mil deal until he is 35? 7 mil is money that should be given to a player who can actually play some defense.

Who plays on the PK too if we bring back Barrie. If that answer is Makar or Girard it's a huge failure.

Look at the past Stanley cup champions like Detroit, LA, Washington and CHI. Look at the top teams in the league. Look at Boston and St. Louis. None of them have 3 defenders who are under 6' and 180 pounds and are not great in their own end. None.

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[Freudian]

If Boston/LA were obsessing over how past cup winners looked they would never have won the cup. If Pittsburgh were trying to emulate LA/Bruins they wouldn't have won the cup.

These things change. Trying to play catch up to what you think it the magic of last years final teams will never work. It's too expensive trying to reshape your team all the time. Sometimes speed is in. Sometimes size. Skill always work.

What do Barrie, Makar and Girard have in common? It's not like any of them is untradeable in 2-3 years time if Sakic wants to make a small change.

 

[OwenNolan]

And this little tidbit from one of the best coaches in the league:

DeBoer: "The 2 hardest, heaviest teams are in the Final. Everybody talks about skill & speed, there's room for all these small players. There is a room for that. But I don't think it's an accident.

"There was no space. They're heavy, hard & organized. There wasn't any room."

I think the goal in hockey is to have a team that is hard to play against. No-one loses sleep at night having to face a team that has Tyson Barrie on the back end. But teams don't like to play against the heavy teams like St. Louis and Boston. It's not easy to play against a team that has 4 or 5 monsters on the back end. Forwards change the way they play if they know they have to have their head up at all times and they know they just can't skate through the zone with no threat of getting lit up. Guys tighten up. They have to make decisions quicker and their game changes.

Having guys that can send you to the dressing room on any shift changes the way a team plays you. Guys like Zadorov and Tom Wilson impact the game in a way that guys like Tyson Barrie can't.

Every team needs a puck mover or 2. Especially on the PP. But to have 3? 3 guys who are undersized and are liabilities in their own end, in the corners and in front of the net? I just don't think its feasible, especially in a 7 game series when things get rough and dirty.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Can we get this thread locked mods? One can already tell from 2 of the first 3 posts what kind of shot storm this is going to be...

 

[OwenNolan]

If Boston/LA were obsessing over how past cup winners looked they would never have won the cup. If Pittsburgh were trying to emulate LA/Bruins they wouldn't have won the cup.

These things change. Trying to play catch up to what you think it the magic of last years final teams will never work. It's too expensive trying to reshape your team all the time. Sometimes speed is in. Sometimes size. Skill always work.

What do Barrie, Makar and Girard have in common? It's not like any of them is untradeable in 2-3 years time if Sakic wants to make a small change.

Things haven't changed that much. Size and toughness still trumps small skill players any day of the week especially in a 7 game series. Like DeBouer said, there is room for small speedy skilled players but teams that are "heavy, hard & organized" will beat those small skilled teams all day long.

Boston and LA didn't have to obsess about anything. They play oldschool, tough hockey and it has worked. Teams obsess about trying to be like them.

Pittsburg also had Ian Cole, Brian Dumoulin, Oli Matta and Trevor Daley on their back end all of whom are great defenders to go along with Letang and Shultz.

I think we are closer to Pittsburg's team that Boston or LA.

Look at Johnny Gaudreau. He gets totally taken out of a 7 game series by physical players like Ian Cole and Erik Johnson. His style of play works in the regular season but come playoffs he is invisible.

 

[OwenNolan]

Can we get this thread locked mods? One can already tell from 2 of the first 3 posts what kind of shot storm this is going to be...

Why? Because you have no answer?

 

[Ceremony]

I want a team of ballers. Having a top four of Girard, Makar, Barrie and Zadorov fulfils a significant part of that criteria. Get him signed up immediately.

 

[OwenNolan]

So the question is do we resign him to a 7 year, 35 mil deal or so and have 3 undersized defenders which, through the history of the NHL no Stanley Cup winning team has had, or trade him to acquire a top 6 forward?

Which team would be better:

Landeskog- Mackinnon- Rantanen
Barrie trade- UFA (Hayes)- Compher

Girard - Makar
Cole - EJ
Zadorov - Nemeth

OR:

Landeskog- Mackinnon- Rantanen
Kerfoot- UFA (Hayes)- Compher

Girard - Makar
Zadorov - Barrie
Cole - EJ

 

[OwenNolan]

I want a team of ballers. Having a top four of Girard, Makar, Barrie and Zadorov fulfils a significant part of that criteria. Get him signed up immediately.

That's a nice looking backend for offense no doubt and I do go back and forth on the thought but what about preventing goals, playing heavy in the playoffs or the penalty kill?

With Barrie there are an awful lot of questions left unanswered.

I guess it depends if you want a physical, heavy team on the back end which all the top teams and past SC wining teams have had or a small, offensive minded team on the back end which hasn't proven to have worked.

 

[Ceremony]

That's a nice looking backend for offense no doubt and I do go back and forth on the thought but what about preventing goals, playing heavy in the playoffs or the penalty kill?

With Barrie there are an awful lot of questions left unanswered.

I guess it depends if you want a physical, heavy team on the back end which all the top teams and past SC wining teams have had or a small, offensive minded team on the back end which hasn't proven to have worked.

The Sharks managed it against us with their four man defence

The Nemeths and Coles of this world can clog up the bottom pairing

 

[OwenNolan]

The Sharks managed it against us with their four man defence

The Nemeths and Coles of this world can clog up the bottom pairing

Burns, Vlasic and Dillon are monsters. Karlsson is no slouch either and even though he is known for his offense, DeBoer had no problems putting him in a big defensive spot. We can't say the same for Barrie who needs to be sheltered from defensive responsibilities.

I'm not sure having 3 guys who we cant trust with defensive responsibilities is feasible.

I agree the Nemeths and Coles of the world can clog up the bottom pairing but for the matchups to work, especially on the PK it seems we need to have 4 heavy guys capable of playing actual defense.

 

[Byzantium]

Don't care about what DeBoer has to say. They were a much deeper team and we almost beat them anyway. Subracting Barrie would make us much worse, he is our secondary scoring. However I do think signing Barrie this summer would be a mistake because we don't know what his role will be. I would wait until mid season and evaluate what his role will be going forward. Don't want to pay him #1D money if he doesn't have that role. And I don't think it's true that either him, Girard or Makar are defensive liabilities. Seems like a buzzword these days. They can move the puck out of the zone, something a "heavy and hard" guy like Zadorov can't do.

 

[Spender]

How about signing him and maybe down the line trade him? I don't see why we're in any hurry to get rid of him when it very well could backfire.

 

[sethro109]

There's a big reason why only Avs fans see Barrie as being a super high value player. His lack of defensive ability is obvious to anyone that watches without rose colored glasses. He's a fancy stat machine that's horribly inconsistent. The stretches he's goes on are something to behold in both a good and bad way. I don't wanna pay for that inconsistency.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

#Flames head coach Bill Peters, on Tyson Barrie:

"Yesterday I showed a bunch of clips to our coaches of Barrie ... jumping by us, creating 3-on-2s, 4-on-3s and they go ‘You showed me that one (already)’ and I go ‘No, that’s a different one.’ There’s too many examples of it"

 

[Ivan13]

Can’t cure ....

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

So when if we traded Barrie for a forward who is replacing him?
Are we really keeping EJ? Why can't we replace EJ with a forward?

I'd argue our d core with Barrie is one of the best in the NHL, why change that?

People are saying we are too small on the back end. We were a goal away from from tying it to go the 3rd round of the playoffs and we didn't lose because of our defense. We lost because we don't have a solid 2nd line. Why are we taking away from our backend to increase our forward core. That's just going backwards. We have a few pieces outside of Barrie and a lot of cap room of Varly isn't resigned it makes no sense to trade Barrie for a forward.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Great! Another thread to talk about Barrie. Like this thread is going to stop people from talking about trading Barrie in all the other threads.

Why do we have to have one more? The Proposals/Rumors, Prospect, and 2C threads were not enough to discuss Barrie.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Great! Another thread to talk about Barrie. Like this thread is going to stop people from talking about trading Barrie in all the other threads.

Why do we have to have one more? The Proposals/Rumors, Prospect, and 2C threads were not enough to discuss Barrie.

You posted in it, so it's working.

 

[hooverdam]

This thread would be great if it meant all of the Barrie haters just stayed here and circle jerked about how terrible Barrie is together, ignoring all the other threads. That's not going to happen, though.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

According to Wikipedia Cale Makar is 6'1'' and 185 lbs.

And its a well known scientific fact that Canadians keep growing well into their early twenties. He could easily top out at 6'2.75'' and 210 lbs.

What a horse this guy is going to be.

Girard is french Canadian so I would not expect him to get any bigger. Unless the exchange rate changes due to global economic crises.

 

[xbestboybandever]

This thread would be great if it meant all of the Barrie haters just stayed here and circle jerked about how terrible Barrie is together, ignoring all the other threads. That's not going to happen, though.

If the right deal comes along or his contract demands are unreasonable, move him. Simple as that.

 

[the_fan]

If Byram falls to Avs at 4th OA, Avs would most likely have no choice but to trade Barrie

 

[OwenNolan]

This thread would be great if it meant all of the Barrie haters just stayed here and circle jerked about how terrible Barrie is together, ignoring all the other threads. That's not going to happen, though.

What a ridiculously ignorant post.

You have no answers to the questions that the logical posters in here pose about why we should trade Barrie so you revert to calling us "Barrie haters"

I don't hate Barrie. I think he is a fantastic player and would love to have him locked up to a fair contract if we didn't have Makar and Girard.

- Will he demand more than Sakic wants to give him?

- Who is the 4th guy to be on our PK units after EJ, Cole and Z?

- Is having 3 undersized, offensive defensemen feasible? None of the top teams have 3 guys, or 2 for that matter, under 6'0, 190 pounds. Neither have the Stanley Cup winners like BOS, LA, CHI or DET.

- We lack secondary scoring so maybe we should look to deal Barrie to add a forward especially since he may demand too much money and we will get more in a trade for him at the draft rather than at the deadline.

And since you cannot answer any of these questions you take the cowardly route and call us " Barrie Haters"

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

No, we've explained the reasons countless times before. You simply ignore facts to spout nonsense.


But go ahead and post exclusively in this thread about Barrie and do us all a favor please. Or better yet just stop posting your nonsense entirely.