Blue Jays Discussion: Turn out the lights, the season's over.

[The Nemesis]

Carry on.

Just wanted to carry forward the one last thought I put in before closing the previous thread.

Siddall ranting about how awful it is that Zeuch is being put in after Font as the opener, turning it into an anti-opener screed.

Funny how this is apparently an unforgivable sin, but nobody thinks back to Aaron Sanchez or a boatload of other pitchers who made their MLB debuts out of the pen and were *gasp* somehow not ruined for it. But suddenly you stick an "opener" label on it and it's panic and hysteria.

Click to read more...

 

[Suntouchable13]

How often is your first major league K a bunt strikeout?

 

[dubplatepressure]

liking this kid so far!

 

[Skolman]

I'm not sure if this was posted, but Baseball America updated their top 100 rankings yesterday.

BA top 100 update:

Pearson, 7 (previously at 15)
Groshans, 38 (previously at 41)

With SWR, Manoah, Pardinho, Martinez, Moreno, Kirk, and Kloffenstein knocking on the door I imagine at least 2-3 more Jays will be in the top 100 soon.

 

[hockeywiz542]

https://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_dem...ir-and-Kevin-Barker-bc-20190904-Interview.mp3

The Toronto Blue Jays president discusses his club's tough September schedule, his measurements for success when it comes to the 2019 campaign, prospects in the system, the impressive seasons by the team's new core, what will spark investment in free agent pitching, the development of Teoscar Hernandez, how this squad compares to his Cleveland side in the mid 2000s, potential long-term extensions for certain pre-arbitration players, the job done by his coaching staff, and openers.

Mark Shapiro says: "Winning is what will tell us that the rebuild is over."

 

[Suntouchable13]

If you were Stroman, how pissed would you be right now? You were traded to a team that was on the fringes of the playoff race and will predictably come way short. Could have been traded to the Yankees or even the Twins. Teams that are firmly entrenched in a playoff spot.

 

[stickty111]

If you were Stroman, how pissed would you be right now? You were traded to a team that was on the fringes of the playoff race and will predictably come way short. Could have been traded to the Yankees or even the Twins. Teams that are firmly entrenched in a playoff spot.

I don't feel bad for him.

 

[AllDay28]

wheres all the people who hated on the Stroman deal? cause hes been absolute ass

 

[as Pure as Evil]

If you were Stroman, how pissed would you be right now? You were traded to a team that was on the fringes of the playoff race and will predictably come way short. Could have been traded to the Yankees or even the Twins. Teams that are firmly entrenched in a playoff spot.

twins and yanks didn't want to pay the piper. that's on them nothing stro could have done to change that. i think we are in the midst of a era in the mlb where you will see a lot more teams hording prospects

 

[The Nemesis]

If you were Stroman, how pissed would you be right now? You were traded to a team that was on the fringes of the playoff race and will predictably come way short. Could have been traded to the Yankees or even the Twins. Teams that are firmly entrenched in a playoff spot.

He can be mad if he wants, but there's no point. Tears are under no obligation to deliver players to situations that they like unless that player has an ntc to control their destiny.

He played his part in destabilizing the relationship between him and the club and this was the end result. It's the business he chose and he'll just have to live with it.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Discoverer]

Horsman is gone too? Typical Shapiro continues to be out of touch with the fan base by getting rid of a Canadian hired by... uh... JP Ricciardi, apparently.

 

[The Nemesis]

Ending the LaRussa Orthodoxy: Part 2

 

[Kurtz]

Horsman is gone too? Typical Shapiro continues to be out of touch with the fan base by getting rid of a Canadian hired by... uh... JP Ricciardi, apparently.

It was clearly a horse dressed in a man-suit. It just took them this long to unwind the ruse.

 

[ER89]

wheres all the people who hated on the Stroman deal? cause hes been absolute ass

just because he has been ass for a new club doesn't make the value we received good at the time. Doesn't work like that my guy.

 

[BlueForever75]

just because he has been ass for a new club doesn't make the value we received good at the time. Doesn't work like that my guy.

I don't know how anyone can say the return we got for Stroman was not good considering how they are performing.

SWR is ripping it up right now, and Kay was the Bisons best starter for his last 5 starts. Let me counter your just because!!!!! Just because none of us knew either of the players we received for Stroman, and felt Stroman was bigger then he actually was. Doesn't mean the trade was a bad one.

 

[Discoverer]

It was clearly a horse dressed in a man-suit. It just took them this long to unwind the ruse.

"Hey coach, I was thinking of trying for more Ks instead of this 'pitching to contact' thing the organization has been doing. What do you think?"
"Neigh."
"Ok, thanks coach."

Glad they finally got rid of him.

 

[deletethis]

Thumbs up to the Stroman trade. Every fifth trade this GM makes looks good. I'd prefer to have a GM whose every fifth trade looks bad.

Donaldson talking friendlier about Toronto? Conclusion: his agent had a talk with him. Open sour grapes about a former organization is a gigantic red flag in terms of a long term investment into a player. Bad impressions linger.

 

[ER89]

I don't know how anyone can say the return we got for Stroman was not good considering how they are performing.

SWR is ripping it up right now, and Kay was the Bisons best starter for his last 5 starts. Let me counter your just because!!!!! Just because none of us knew either of the players we received for Stroman, and felt Stroman was bigger then he actually was. Doesn't mean the trade was a bad one.

yes but that is AFTER the fact. It's like saying if a share of AAPL was selling on the market for $90 bucks, and you get $85 bucks at the time for it, is a good deal, because the stock underperformed after the fact and fell to $75. No, it wasn't a good deal AT the time. I don't get why thats such a difficult concept to grasp. YES, does it look like a good deal after the fact? Sure but we are comparing values at two different points in time.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[dangomon]

yes but that is AFTER the fact. It's like saying if a share of AAPL was selling on the market for $90 bucks, and you get $85 bucks at the time for it, is a good deal, because the stock underperformed after the fact and fell to $75. No, it wasn't a good deal AT the time. I don't get why thats such a difficult concept to grasp. YES, does it look like a good deal after the fact? Sure but we are comparing values at two different points in time.

Wait what? We're talking about weeks later, not years of hindsight. The biggest reason people were disappointed with the trade is they were unfamiliar with the two prospects, and that people believed we could have got more if we waited (which may or may not be true). If it's a good trade a month later, then it was a good trade at the time. Time will tell if it was a good trade in the years to come (how they develop).

 

[TheBeastCoast]

yes but that is AFTER the fact. It's like saying if a share of AAPL was selling on the market for $90 bucks, and you get $85 bucks at the time for it, is a good deal, because the stock underperformed after the fact and fell to $75. No, it wasn't a good deal AT the time. I don't get why thats such a difficult concept to grasp. YES, does it look like a good deal after the fact? Sure but we are comparing values at two different points in time.

....its like a month later and people are already saying the deal looks alright. Maaaaybe that's a clue that peoples initial reactions to the trade was wrong? Maybe and I mean when you are trading for prospects what people thought about the value of the trade means absolutely zero if the players turn into all stars. Like nothing. If Atkins traded for a top 50 prospect and said prospect busted out of baseball nobody gives a damn that "he got good value at the time". Results matter.

 

[deletethis]

Aaron Sanchez has a shot at being a Chris Carpenter type of career resurrection. And might not happen in Houston either.

 

[Animal]

poor guy....wonder if the blue jays suspected this shoulder surgery was likely

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Wait what? We're talking about weeks later, not years of hindsight. The biggest reason people were disappointed with the trade is they were unfamiliar with the two prospects, and that people believed we could have got more if we waited (which may or may not be true). If it's a good trade a month later, then it was a good trade at the time. Time will tell if it was a good trade in the years to come (how they develop).

You're not wrong, but I've seen many Jays trades/moves justified on here using the logic that "at the time, it was a good deal" and that they couldn't have foreseen X/Y/Z happening.

Happens both ways, but I agree.....always better to evaluate after some time has passed.