Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VII

[wintersej]

Sorry I just can't gloss over how smug and confident some of these Jets fans are with no basis at all for it.

I hear ya , but I don't think it's going anywhere at this point.

 

[Evil Little]

I think the asking price is to high for Trouba, he couldn't even beat out Myers for a top 4 D spot. To me Trouba's ceiling is #3 - 4 D spot.
If the asking price is at the level of #1D , they'll never get that.

1) He has played just as much as Myers. He should have been playing way more than Myers beside Byfuglien, but Chiarot was garbage and Trouba was put on a pairing with Stuart to babysit.

2) You don't want to know what the asking price for a #1 D is, but this is not it. (It's also kinda hard to say the Jets are asking for too much when all they've said is they want a comparable player.)

Torey krug is a comparatively young comparatively top end dman. He's way better offensively roughly .5 PPG, can handle 18-21 minutes a night, top PP puck mover. Trouba is better defensively, but krug is a proven leader, a couple years older and locked up for cheaper than trouba will cost.

Sure. I'd prefer someone closer in age to Trouba--who has already shown he can play 25 minutes per night--but would consider something around Krug if there was nothing else on the table.

It's not up to me, though (I do understand the spirit of this subforum, however).

Why has a team like Carolina or Florida not made an offer sheet of say 5 years at 6.5? Is Trouba afraid Jets match?

I suspect you're exactly right.

Arima, as it stands right now, is going to be exposed in the expansion draft.

Armia's stands to be exposed because, as of right now, the Jets have four D good enough to protect.

Lemieux is an OK prospect, but nothing special. I think you can say Chevy won the deal, but it's hardly the steal of the century.

Kane and Bogosian are OK players, but nothing special

He got a late 1st and a disappointing, but high upside, prospect for Ladd. Pretty good.

Minimize Daňo all you want--Cheveldayoff got his price. Yes, that's good.

Laine and Connor fell into his lap. I guess you have to give him credited for actually making those picks and not tripping on the stairs and vomiting all over himself until the draft clock ran out of time?

Yeah, it's easy to hit a home run with 2nd overall.

Tell that to the two teams who could have Tyler Seguin right now but don't.

He signed Dustin Byfuglien to the 3rd highest cap hit of any d-man in the NHL. Hmm... OK.

And got back both term and trade restriction. Compare those parts of his contract to other top-end D in the league.

It's a higher cap hit, but in all other ways is vastly superior to Seabrook's contract, for example.

He signed Toby Enstrom to a 5.75 million dollar contract with a NMC. Well... not great.

Enström was one of the top offensive D in the league until injuries piled up, but okay.

He gave Mark Stuart a new 4 year deal because... I don't know... Stuart had incriminating pictures?

Overpaid for off-ice contributions. I guess that's never happened on any other team.

He rolled with, quite possibly, the worst goalie in the NHL for multiple seasons because...reasons?

Bad deal for the Jets. Not the worst, by far, even amongst only goalies.

But do you think they were a contender otherwise? If not, it's hard look at that as being debilitating.

[Cheveldayoff] is a timid, scared GM who has made only a handful of moves in his years running the club.

This old chestnut...

 

[North]

Sorry I just can't gloss over how smug and confident some of these Jets fans are with no basis at all for it.

The same can be said for non-Jets fans.

 

[wintersej]

^^^ Your replies, of course, are all fairly reasonable.

I think the main point remains that Chevy is not this brilliant GM playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers... which seem to be the vibes from WPG fans. He is a solid GM who has made some good moves, and some not so good moves, that is in year 5 of a rebuild that still hasn't lead to a playoff win, and won't again this year.

The future looks good, but, even if every single one of the Jets prospects work out (they won't), there is a lot more to do to build a team that's as good as the recent Cup winners.

The Jets are suspect (relative to a Cup contending team - no slight to Little/Schef) up the middle, in goal (Hell is a good prospect, but has just been OK in real life), and on LD. In 5 years Chevy has built a very good RD group, a very good group of wings that COULD be elite if one of the non-Wheeler/Laine prospects makes a leap, and sub-par for a true playoff contender anywhere else on the roster.

 

[jetsfaneh]

This thread is mostly non-Jets fans talking amongst themselves now. So much so that I can't get a Jets fan to answer proposals of Zboril + Spooner + 1st or McAvoy + Spooner.

That first offer seems pretty good. Although the Jets could use another Dman in it as a stopgap while Zboril is in the incubator. Perhaps McQuaid or K.Miller. But a trade like this that doesn't include Carlo makes sense for the Bruins. And they would still have Lauzon and McAvoy in the pipeline.

 

[CaptainChef]

Will get interesting coming up to 12/1 to see who blinks first.

Chevy has no reason to blink so it will have to be Trouba (or he sits). If Chevy blinks, it will be for a good trade or a long-term contract -- that's about the only hope for Trouba IMO

 

[135ace]

The future looks good, but, even if every single one of the Jets prospects work out (they won't), there is a lot more to do to build a team that's as good as the recent Cup winners.

The Jets are suspect (relative to a Cup contending team - no slight to Little/Schef) up the middle, in goal (Hell is a good prospect, but has just been OK in real life), and on LD. In 5 years Chevy has built a very good RD group, a very good group of wings that COULD be elite if one of the non-Wheeler/Laine prospects makes a leap, and sub-par for a true playoff contender anywhere else on the roster.

This is part of what trading with the Jets so difficult. They fail to realize that a cup contender needs at least 2 of the 3 following. A stud center, stud dman, and a stud goalie. The Jets don't have a single piece. If everything goes according to plan the best outcome for the Jets is becoming the next Caps, winning presidents trophies and laying eggs in the playoffs. If things don't go as well they'll be stuck in limbo for a while. Honestly the Jets remind me of the Islanders. Fans of both teams are way too optimistic and fail to realize that their GM's are nowhere near as capable as they believe them to be.

 

[CaptainChef]

How dare you try to make an offer in the Trouba trade thread.... Can we please get back to the riveting New York Rangers talk



This thread is full of so much hot garbage that has zero to do with Trouba being traded haha

No kidding. Whomever came up with the idea that Mega Threads were the way to go.

Anyone wanting to find out the latest on Trouba or if there have been any serious offers tossed around (ya as if that happens or is responded to on a Mega thread like this), well you'd certainly have to sort through a heck of a lot of he says, she says to find much of value here.

What ever happened to the good old days when you could limit most of the discussion or trade ideas down to a team or two rather than the free for all that is going on here.

 

[CaptainChef]

So... back to actual trade offers.

Zboril + Spooner + 1st?

Nothing of interest to Wpg there. A couple of maybe pieces and a forward we don't need.

 

[Whileee]

This is part of what trading with the Jets so difficult. They fail to realize that a cup contender needs at least 2 of the 3 following. A stud center, stud dman, and a stud goalie. The Jets don't have a single piece. If everything goes according to plan the best outcome for the Jets is becoming the next Caps, winning presidents trophies and laying eggs in the playoffs. If things don't go as well they'll be stuck in limbo for a while. Honestly the Jets remind me of the Islanders. Fans of both teams are way too optimistic and fail to realize that their GM's are nowhere near as capable as they believe them to be.

Scheifele is a good start. Hellebuyck has a great pedigree as a young goalie. Jets would love to have Trouba as the stud D.

The Jets are a lot closer to a contender than you think.

 

[howkie]

Can we have Ghetto, emelin and second instead, please......

 

[Randal61]

This is part of what trading with the Jets so difficult. They fail to realize that a cup contender needs at least 2 of the 3 following. A stud center, stud dman, and a stud goalie. The Jets don't have a single piece. If everything goes according to plan the best outcome for the Jets is becoming the next Caps, winning presidents trophies and laying eggs in the playoffs. If things don't go as well they'll be stuck in limbo for a while. Honestly the Jets remind me of the Islanders. Fans of both teams are way too optimistic and fail to realize that their GM's are nowhere near as capable as they believe them to be.

clueless

 

[Brunomics]

Kiefer bellows and the 2017 first

 

[Riptide]

Sure, but it's not just about dollars and cents for Trouba, clearly. If it was, he would have just signed already. Besides, if he gets to keep his US lady friend she will add another 300k a year or so once she gets that MD.

Disagree. It's not about dollars and cents - until he decides he's actually going to sign a contract. The moment he changes his frame of mind from "I'm waiting until they trade me" to "I'm going to sign some sort of contract", I think he's going to look for the best deal possible that still meets with his objective of getting the **** out of Winnipeg.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Nothing of interest to Wpg there. A couple of maybe pieces and a forward we don't need.

I notice that you like to reject every trade as it doesn't seem to fit what you think the return should be. That's fine, I mean you are giving your opinion and that's what this place is for.

I'm curious as to what you think is a fair offer for WPG that would get the deal done. Give me some examples.

 

[135ace]

Scheifele is a good start. Hellebuyck has a great pedigree as a young goalie. Jets would love to have Trouba as the stud D.

The Jets are a lot closer to a contender than you think.

I agree that Scheifele is great, but everything else you claim is just being way too optimistic. Hellebucyk has played what, all of 30 NHL games and Trouba isn't going to turn into a Hedman or Doughty. That's just wishful thinking.

Building a cup contender in today's NHL is a lot harder than you seem to realize. The biggest game changer the Jets have is Laine, a winger. You may be happy with the way Chevy is building your team, but almost every other team out there has a better centerpiece to build around than Laine.

 

[TheBPA]

I notice that you like to reject every trade as it doesn't seem to fit what you think the return should be. That's fine, I mean you are giving your opinion and that's what this place is for.

I'm curious as to what you think is a fair offer for WPG that would get the deal done. Give me some examples.

I can only assume it must be a LD who is no older than 23, has #1D potential and is cost controlled for no less than 4 years.

Basically, clone Trouba but make him an LD and willing to play in Winnipeg.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I think the asking price is to high for Trouba, he couldn't even beat out Myers for a top 4 D spot. To me Trouba's ceiling is #3 - 4 D spot.
If the asking price is at the level of #1D , they'll never get that.

Your welcome to your opinion but your facts are wrong and hockey experts disagree with you.

Couldn't beat out Myers - Trouba played harder minutes with a worse partner. He was slated to play top line with Buff. Trouba was on the LHD side because he could do it. Trouba is better than Myers, they are both good but Trouba is better.

EVERY metric shows Trouba to a top pairing D-MAN. His ceiling is a 1D, he may never get there but your assessment is not shared by people paid to talk about hockey.

How can you say his ceiling is lower than what he already is?
Most D-MEN will peak in their mid to late 20's.

 

[CaptainChef]

I notice that you like to reject every trade as it doesn't seem to fit what you think the return should be. That's fine, I mean you are giving your opinion and that's what this place is for.

I'm curious as to what you think is a fair offer for WPG that would get the deal done. Give me some examples.

Wrong again. There's been at least a couple of trades proposed here that I've said were fine.

Miller + Skjei + 1st
McAvoy + Lauzon + 1st

Don't offer the main piece that we need back, but sum of the pieces is close enough.

 

[Heldig]

Haha. To me, those seem like decent offers.

Then again, I'm not a jets fan, so the regrettable premise of your post remains true.

Both offers are good value. Neither meets the immediate preference for a top pairing Dman. Not sure if that will ever materialize however.

 

[Whileee]

I agree that Scheifele is great, but everything else you claim is just being way too optimistic. Hellebucyk has played what, all of 30 NHL games and Trouba isn't going to turn into a Hedman or Doughty. That's just wishful thinking.

Building a cup contender in today's NHL is a lot harder than you seem to realize. The biggest game changer the Jets have is Laine, a winger. You may be happy with the way Chevy is building your team, but almost every other team out there has a better centerpiece to build around than Laine.

Wait and see.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

That's fine and I didn't really recall all of the pieces in the trade.

But nailing almost every first round pick in the top of the draft is really just an acceptable performance. The oilers also nailed almost every first round pick (yakupov being an exception). It was their drafting after the first round that hindered their rebuild for years.

Edit: really this is neither here nor there. I just don't have a whole lot of confidence that chevy is actually going to get the value he claims he is looking for, but he's been backed into this situation by trouba in any event.

And again do your homework the Jets are hitting above average in the later rounds as well. Most drafts only yield 1 - 2 players that become full time NHL players with decent careers. Chevy is way above that mark. He's also secured additional first round picks.

 

[Coach Parker]

I notice that you like to reject every trade as it doesn't seem to fit what you think the return should be. That's fine, I mean you are giving your opinion and that's what this place is for.

I'm curious as to what you think is a fair offer for WPG that would get the deal done. Give me some examples.

He liked the Spooner out and Lauzon in.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Wrong again. There's been at least a couple of trades proposed here that I've said were fine.

Miller + Skjei + 1st
McAvoy + Lauzon + 1st

Don't offer the main piece that we need back, but sum of the pieces is close enough.

Dont see it happening. Miller is a beast, scored 20+ goals last season,12 points in 11 games so far this season , SKjei has been great so far in his first season in the NHL. He has 7 points in 12 games, great skater, solid on defense, can move the puck. Dont see NYR trading them for Trouba, and specially not with a first.

Could see a deal around SKjei+ but he is looking great, Expansion exempt, on ELC and i dont think Gorton would want to give up alot more since Skjei has been as good as he has. I would be totally fine having Skjei as a top 4 defensemen right now. Mcdonagh and Staal have those spots but Skjei has been better than Staal so far and Staal has been pretty good. Only thing that count for NYR giving up Skjei+ is because we have Mcdonagh and Staal. I like Trouba but we are 100% a worse team with Trouba than with Miller and Skjei.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Wrong again. There's been at least a couple of trades proposed here that I've said were fine.

Miller + Skjei + 1st
McAvoy + Lauzon + 1st

Don't offer the main piece that we need back, but sum of the pieces is close enough.

Not a chance Boston does that deal. Makes no sense for them.

So looks like you will be waiting for awhile. Good luck.