Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VII

[Stej]

It really depends on what offers were already had. We don't know, but if speculation is true you've been offered a lot more than a 1st and a B prospect. If that's all you get, well then it's Chevy's fault. If you have him sit because you are only being offered a 1st and a B prospect, again it's Chevy's fault.
In either of these scenarios Chevy overestimated the leverage he held.

As for your other question, I can understand not trading him for just a 1st and B prospect. Maybe it's better to just force him to sit, but you still have to go back and ask yourself was there a better offer made beforehand, and if there was (which there most likely was) it's Chevy's fault.

If it's true that Trouba is limiting the number of teams that he will willingly sign with, then perhaps the quality of previous offers is moot, since Trouba's camp declined them?

 

[Gump Hasek]

Even if you get Trouba to sign you will have a unhappy player who doesn't want to be there and his teammates will know it and that can negatively effect everyone. Jets are in a lose lose situation it is best to end this sooner then later. You won't be regaining full value on him.

The value is in controlling the asset. The most value will be lost by ceding that control and acquiescing. The Jets clearly want to control the process and remove the outside noise, like any smart manager would.

 

[135ace]

Am unsure of what bizarro world it is that you inhabit, but in mine, if you intentionally damage an asset I hold, you can be damn sure I'd make sure to recoup those damages by whatever means necessary, including to refuse to bow to any further demands.

I live in a pragmatic world. My thought processed isn't governed by the same sort of selfish, vindictive idealism you hold.

There's no guarantee that you can recoup any damages. If Trouba signs a 5.5x6 deal and comes back playing without his heart being in it how much value can you recoup? There's probably a bigger chance of losing even more value.

 

[Paradise*]

Speculation only.

Let me speculate now, Chevy received his trade request in May if we believe the agent. Depending on the date in May, that gave Chevy from 4 to 8 weeks notice while he was busy planning for the draft. Reports from then did report Chevy might be shopping Trouba, so sounds like some calls were placed. Speculation at the time, right or wrong was Chevy was looking added top 6 scorer.....which sounds a bit odd but I'm just repeating what the media stated. Then Chevy won the draft and Laine fell on the Jets lap. This then complicated any previous deals discussed, and was reported by the media. This takes us into August easily. So while Chevy has had August/Sept to Nov to find a deal, most teams rosters were set possibly by this point and deal he found would not replace Trouba's value to the jets.

So are you one of those folks who believe the Jets should trade Trouba to get whatever they can even if it means 50-75 cents on the dollar?

I do think the Jets should get good value, but that's subjective. What is good value to Chevy may not be to other GM's. I'd hope for a 1 for 1 deal for an equivalent LD (supposed ask). I just don't see other GM's biting on such a deal. There's also other quality D that could be available at a lower cost. There's options for team's besides Trouba.

I'd prefer not to ever see Trouba on the Jets again. I wouldn't give any more control than he already has. The guy doesn't want to be here. Why keep that type of person around? When I'm told someone wants nothing to do with me or doesn't lIke me...I leave them alone. I don't try to make them want/like me. Chevy trying to coax Trouba into staying when he clearly knew he wanted nothing to do with the organization, would qualify as dropping the ball IMO. Chevy has been aware, yet couldn't find a deal? No, because he's gonna sign and play here anyways.

I'm OK with being patient, but there's also the risk of being overly cautious. IMO Chevy's strength is also his flaw. I wish there was more balance to his approach

I also don't mind a couple of the proposals by other fanbases. Obviously the Canadian team proposals don't work. In the end I think he's traded to NYR or Boston. I just don't see a match with others. If Chevy waits until the draft, I'm certain that the offers and teams won't really change. With the expansion draft, it's gonna be a busy off season.

I'm also cool being in the minority when it comes to my views.

 

[Gump Hasek]

I live in a pragmatic world. My thought processed isn't governed by the same sort of selfish, vindictive idealism you hold.

There's no guarantee that you can recoup any damages. If Trouba signs a 5.5x6 deal and comes back playing without his heart being in it how much value can you recoup? There's probably a bigger chance of losing even more value.

Well, there you go throwing out any goodwill you've built up by once again attempting to assign emotion into the words of others.

FYI, he will lock in damages by ceding to the demands of the agent. He can conversely recoup some or all of that damage by making a deal on his own timeline and choosing - and would be doing so without an agent holding a popgun to his head. Hope that helps

Have a nice evening.

 

[135ace]

The value is in controlling the asset. The most value will be lost by ceding that control and acquiescing. The Jets clearly want to control the process and remove the outside noise, like any smart manager would.

Here's a pro tip for you- feel free to use it during your next negotiation...
It's better to control less of something valuable than all of something that's worthless.
To help you understand here's a real world example...
It's better for an investor to cut their losses in a stock that's on the decline and reinvest in one that's on the rise. You see this happening all the time and the difference between good & bad investors is often their ability to cut their losses and move on.

 

[Ducks in a row]

The value is in controlling the asset. The most value will be lost when ceding that control. The Jets clearly want to control the process and remove the outside noise, like any smart manager would.

Option 1
Trading a unhappy player for a nice return (of which I am sure Jets have gotten) and ending this saga and no chance for Trouba to send bad vides to his team that can negatively effect them.

Option 2
Getting the player to eventually cave and sign but be unhappy sending bad vibes that can negatively effect your team that has a lot of young players while never gaining full value on Trouba because it is know he doesn't want to be there because I am trying to gain full value on someone that won't regain full value.

Option 3
Risk that Trouba doesn't sign tanking his value further and be known as a team that has been involved in a situation similar to Lindros that stopped a young player from playing in the NHL in a season all because of I don't want to trade someone who doesn't want to be here because I am trying to gain full value on someone that won't regain full value.

What is more valuable?

 

[Randal61]

It really depends on what offers were already had. We don't know, but if speculation is true you've been offered a lot more than a 1st and a B prospect. If that's all you get, well then it's Chevy's fault. If you have him sit because you are only being offered a 1st and a B prospect, again it's Chevy's fault.
In either of these scenarios Chevy overestimated the leverage he held.

As for your other question, I can understand not trading him for just a 1st and B prospect. Maybe it's better to just force him to sit, but you still have to go back and ask yourself was there a better offer made beforehand, and if there was (which there most likely was) it's Chevy's fault.

So this all lies on Chevy? Right

 

[Randal61]

Here's a pro tip for you- feel free to use it during your next negotiation...
It's better to control less of something valuable than all of something that's worthless.
To help you understand here's a real world example...
It's better for an investor to cut their losses in a stock that's on the decline and reinvest in one that's on the rise. You see this happening all the time and the difference between good & bad investors is often their ability to cut their losses and move on.

I don't think Trouba is Nortel

 

[Riptide]

There are a pile of hockey players that are flipping burgers. My neighbors kid was constantly in the top 10 in WHL scoring for years...and now he is doing lawn care. I think that is a job that is paid by the hour.

I, unlike you put though into what I write. You on the other hand just seem to spew any kind of crap that makes no sense at all. What exactly is your concern about the Jets? Closet fan?

Maybe go back and read what I wrote? I didn't say "hockey players" I said "pro hockey players". And your neighbors kid is doing that because he wasn't offered a pro contract, not because he can't come to an agreement with the team that owns his rights.

As for my "concern about the Jets", they're a Canadian team, and I usually pull for those teams - just ask all the Dallas fans who were sitting near me last week in Dallas

But in general I'm just a hockey fan with too much time on my hands.

 

[Riptide]

Hell yeah I am emotional about it. It's almost impossible not to be.

That being said, he does himself ZERO favors playing overseas so it's not like it's a major threat. He may go after Dec 1 but it won't matter at that point.

We have no idea as to what has been offered so far so who knows how much better off we would be by accepting a deal that the organization feels is less than optimal?

Agreed, which is why I think he'll sign a short contract so that he plays this season. I don't see him going past 4 years and I don't see WPG signing him for less than 2.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Here's a pro tip for you- feel free to use it during your next negotiation...
It's better to control less of something valuable than all of something that's worthless.
To help you understand here's a real world example...
It's better for an investor to cut their losses in a stock that's on the decline and reinvest in one that's on the rise. You see this happening all the time and the difference between good & bad investors is often their ability to cut their losses and move on.

And here is one for you: Trouba will hold asset value regardless of what happens over the coming days, and that asset is for the Winnipeg Jets franchise to value, not you. Your assertion it may prove worthless is laughable though. Thanks for the yucks. Good evening.

 

[Paradise*]

How DARE the fans show their appreciation!!!!!

Also your first part is a flat out lie.

Hang around the Jets forum sometime.

Not a lie, an opinion, just like yours.

No thanks. Been there done that.

 

[Gm0ney]

The only problem with that is that if he doesn't sign him to something before Dec that he basically becomes an untradeable asset for this season (unless WPG really gets taken to the cleaners), and he's no further ahead as he'll still owe them 4 years.

And while JT is willing to play chicken now, I really don't think he'll do so 3 weeks from now. I think then he'll come crawling back and sign a short contract while praying he gets traded. And I think WPG if given the option of signing him (say to a 2x3.5m deal) will do so and hope that things are tollerable until a trade can be worked out.

For those saying that they'll only sign him to a long term contract, do you really think if the option is a short contract or no contract that they'll go with no contract? Doing so puts everything on hold for 6 months and they lose a lot of flexibility and options. I highly doubt that they'd go that route.

Trouba has far more to lose than the Jets do if he sits out the whole year. I really feel like they'd let him rot for 5 years if it comes down to it...Chevy's stubborn - he did ****-all about the league's worst starting goalie for 5 years. What's 5 years of letting Trouba rot?

But I still think the most likely outcome is that Trouba signs a bridge in a couple of weeks and then gets moved at the deadline or next draft. Quickest way off the Jets is to sign and play.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Here's my question to you given what you've indicated here. What if he has already nixed a couple deals because its been widely rumored that we had a trade with Edmonton at the draft & a trade with Toronto more recently.

We won't know if that's fact or rumor, but I'm sure Chevy has been doing what he can to trade him -- it just takes a trade partner, AND it especially takes a client (in this case Trouba) whose flexible about where they are traded.

Well, it depends on why he nixed the deals. There has been a lot of speculation although I don't recall if any of it was concrete information as to why he wants out of Winnipeg. After SEVEN threads you start to lose track Some of those items mentioned him not wanting to play in Canada at all, which would obviously automatically nix deals to Canadian teams.

I understand why Winnipeg fans are alright with him sitting out the year. I would be pissed as well. I also see it from Trouba's perspective. All around it is an unfortunate situation. One that I hope gets resolved without a great young talent sitting out an entire year and ruining part of his development as well as Winnipeg being without the help that Trouba or the return he would bring in a trade could provide to their team.

I think what would be the most telling is if we knew what some of the offers have been so far. I think that would go far in either cementing the belief of Winnipeg fans that their GM is doing the right thing by not bad value or by solidifying the belief of people like myself that Chevy is too stubborn for his own good and has likely passed on fair value simply to set a precedent.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Option 1
Trading a unhappy player for a nice return (of which I am sure Jets have gotten) and ending this saga and no chance for Trouba to send bad vides to his team that can negatively effect them.

Option 2
Getting the player to eventually cave and sign but be unhappy sending bad vibes that can negatively effect your team that has a lot of young players while never gaining full value on Trouba because it is know he doesn't want to be there because I am trying to gain full value on someone that won't regain full value.

Option 3
Risk that Trouba doesn't sign tanking his value further and be known as a team that has been involved in a situation similar to Lindros that stopped a young player from playing in the NHL in a season all because of I don't want to trade someone who doesn't want to be here because I am trying to gain full value on someone that won't regain full value.

What is more valuable?

Retaining the asset and controlling its eventual disposition vs. giving into the demands of an agent that is demanding rights he does not hold and setting a bad precedent in the process.

 

[Stream*]

Maybe go back and read what I wrote? I didn't say "hockey players" I said "pro hockey players". And your neighbors kid is doing that because he wasn't offered a pro contract, not because he can't come to an agreement with the team that owns his rights.

As for my "concern about the Jets", they're a Canadian team, and I usually pull for those teams - just ask all the Dallas fans who were sitting near me last week in Dallas

But in general I'm just a hockey fan with too much time on my hands.

He was offered a pro contract, played in the AHL, ECHL, Europe, wanted to play more minutes and a bigger role on the teams that signed him but wasn't prepared to put in the time and the work to beat out the players who were ahead of him on the depth chart, so he was going to show them a thing or two and came back home to be close to his girlfriend. That was about 7 years ago. But hey, he is one of the top lawn cutters in the neighbourhood. (except for the 10 year old down the block who will do the same thing for $5.)

 

[aj8000]

I live in a pragmatic world. My thought processed isn't governed by the same sort of selfish, vindictive idealism you hold.

There's no guarantee that you can recoup any damages. If Trouba signs a 5.5x6 deal and comes back playing without his heart being in it how much value can you recoup? There's probably a bigger chance of losing even more value.

And you have no idea what the jets have been offered and whether it meets their needs even remotely, so your speculation has little value. thanks for coming out. To top it off, you will have no way of proving that they lost value if and when a trade is made. but carry on and keep repeating your self so i can keep repeating myself .

 

[Riptide]

Yes, they might choose no contract over a short-term one.

We'll agree to disagree, as I don't think WPG would go there.

Here is a hypothetical question for you. Under the assumption that the rumors are true that Trouba's camp nixed a trade to a Canadian team, he has clearly demonstrated that he expects the Jets to worsen their team to the benefit of him personally. If Toronto was offering X and the Jets were willing to accept that, what percentage of X should Chevy be willing to trade Trouba for, just out of the goodness of his heart?

Tough question. I'd be pretty pissed in that situation.

It's one thing to sit out and demand a trade as a player coming off an ELC. It's another thing completely to restrict the number of potential suitors. In my opinion, the latter is the FAR, FAR bigger issue here and why I'd be just fine having Trouba rot for 5 years if he won't be more accommodating.

I disagree with the part about letting him sit, solely because that's going to hurt you worse long term. Trouba can worse case go play overseas. While he won't make close to what he would make in the NHL, he would make something fairly decent. But I do agree that there's a difference between him asking for a trade out of Winnipeg and him saying no to every Canadian team. Asking for a trade (and evening refusing to sign until traded or a trade has been worked out) is one thing... that's entirely within his right to do so. Limiting WPG's options is not. He hasn't earned that right yet, and will not until he's accrued another 4 seasons.

If I was Chevy I'd put this back on Trouba. I'd tell Overhardt that I'll trade him to whatever team he wants, but that Trouba will have to sign whatever deal is necessary such that the acquiring team will give up the same quality of assets that Toronto (or whoever it was) has already offered. If that means Trouba has to sign a $3.5m x 6yr deal so that Chevy can pry more out of Trouba's desired new team, then so be it. The cost for circumventing the spirit of the CBA should be born by Trouba, not by the Jets. If that doesn't work for him then he can sit. Simple.

I think that's too simplistic, and unfortunately for all, not realistic.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Retaining the asset and controlling its eventual disposition vs. giving into the demands of an agent that is demanding rights he does not hold and setting a bad precedent in the process.

If Trouba doesn't sign and misses the season it will be a terrible terrible thing for the Jets. If the Jets get Trouba to sign but don't trade him right after that he can ruin the Jets locker room which would be a terrible terrible thing for a team with so many young players.

Trading Trouba for a fair deal is what Jets should do not continue with what they have been doing it. Jets have had to of gotten a fair deal I just can't believe it hasn't happened. Jets look like a team that are trying to avoid caving into Trouba demands above all else.

 

[Paradise*]

(except for the 10 year old down the block who will do the same thing for $5.)

Wow. I'm surprised kids still do that. Most I see are too lazy and entitled to do chores or work.

 

[Stream*]

If Trouba doesn't sign and misses the season it will be a terrible terrible thing for the Jets. If the Jets get Trouba to sign but don't trade him right after that he can ruin the Jets locker room which would be a terrible terrible thing for a team with so many young players.

Trading Trouba for a fair deal is what Jets should do not continue with what they have been doing it. Jets have had to of gotten a fair deal I just can't believe it hasn't happened. Jets look like a team that are trying to avoid caving into Trouba demands above all else.

Along the same way Lindholm will ruin the room after being pissed off at his cheap employers?

 

[Gump Hasek]

If Trouba doesn't sign and misses the season it will be a terrible terrible thing for the Jets. If the Jets get Trouba to sign but don't trade him right after that he can ruin the Jets locker room which would be a terrible terrible thing for a team with so many young players.

Trading Trouba for a fair deal is what Jets should do not continue with what they have been doing it. Jets have had to of gotten a fair deal I just can't believe it hasn't happened. Jets look like a team that are trying to avoid caving into Trouba demands above all else.

This will be my final reply this evening because my wife is waiting. I found it difficult to answer your initial query as it isn't as cut and dried as choosing A, B, or C. Trouba doesn't exist within a vacuum; I assume the Jets would preferred to have lumped him in with something else as part of a larger deal, preferably for an upgrade. That the agent reportedly wants to control the landing spot is something I've an issue with as it may have prevented a transaction already for all we know. If so, I'd retain the asset and dispose of it when the time is right and not on Overhardt's timeline, period.

Have a nice evening.

 

[aj8000]

Option 1
Trading a unhappy player for a nice return (of which I am sure Jets have gotten) and ending this saga and no chance for Trouba to send bad vides to his team that can negatively effect them.

Option 2
Getting the player to eventually cave and sign but be unhappy sending bad vibes that can negatively effect your team that has a lot of young players while never gaining full value on Trouba because it is know he doesn't want to be there because I am trying to gain full value on someone that won't regain full value.

Option 3
Risk that Trouba doesn't sign tanking his value further and be known as a team that has been involved in a situation similar to Lindros that stopped a young player from playing in the NHL in a season all because of I don't want to trade someone who doesn't want to be here because I am trying to gain full value on someone that won't regain full value.

What is more valuable?

Since you have no idea what is really going on in Chevy's mind your three options are mute. There are many possibilities that can affect your options.

What are the facts, Overheardt has said more than once it is a left vs right thing and it has nothing to do with Winnipeg.

The Jets say they will do what is best for the Jets and that they want Trouba back in a Jets uniform.

Sounds like both parties are trying to not burn the bridge down completely.

Everything else is speculation and until Chevy makes a move, you are are wrong.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Along the same way Lindholm will ruin the room after being pissed off at his cheap employers?

Lindholm hasn't been so against re-signing with the Ducks like Trouba has been. Lindholm after signing has not said or done anything to suggest he will do such a thing.