I think you're missing the point. There's many variables here such as:
- Waivers
- Salary cap
- Upcoming expansion draft
- The team is young with lots of rookies
Let's look at the forward position:
Little
Stafford
Wheeler
Perreault
Scheifele
Matthias
Armia
Lowry
Ehlers
Laine
That's 10 players who are either on one ways with nobody being overpaid, or players who need waivers, or players who should be playing with the big club. Let's look at the next group:
Connor
Dano
Burmistrov
Thorburn
Tanev
Copp
That's another 6 forwards. These guys are either waiver exempt and could be sent to the moose (like Copp or Dano who don't really belong there) or maybe aren't quite performing up to snuff. Tanev has been impressive for a rookie and Connor is getting used to the game after a mere 9 games. I'd say out of the 16 guys Thorburn and
Burmistrov just aren't that good. Both have contracts ending this year.
So that's 16 forwards not including guys like Petan, De Leo, Lemieux, Roslovic who all deserve a look this year. We're up to 20 freaking guys. Now consider waivers , the salary cap, and expansion next year (we might only be protecting 4 forwards, Scheifele, Wheeler, Little and Perreault) why would we spend assets to pick someone up that may not improve this group and would get picked up in the expansion draft? That's very poor asset management. We'd much rather see what we have. On the pro side in the past 8 months we've added Dano, Roslovic, Laine, Connor, Matthias, Tanev, Lemieux.
Why on earth would we spend assets for a marginal upgrade when we don't even know what we have? The player we acquire would also likely be exposed in the expansion draft. We are content with the current situation although Thorburn being on the big club is a bit of a joke.
We also have a decent amount of amateur forwards considering how many turned pro last summer.
On to Defense:
Right side:
Buff
Trouba*
Myers
Postma
With Trouba that's probably the best right side in hockey. But he's holding out. Postma is also a UFA after this year and will likely walk.
Left side:
Enstrom
Morrissey
Chiarot
Stuart
Much different left side. Morrissey has been a really nice surprise for us and Enstrom has been playing his best hockey in years. But beyond that Chiarot and Stuart are #7 guys at best. Let's look at the non nhl pros:
Strait*
Kostalek
Melchiori*
Kichton*
Hill (AHL contract)
Stoykewych (AHL contract)
Baker (AHL contract)
* cleared waivers a few weeks ago
Probably one of the worst AHL D cores. I see a VERY high chance of less than 30 NHL GP in the future of this entire group combined. Morrissey leaving really hurts the Moose very badly.
Goalies:
Hellebuyck - Goalie of the future
Hutchinson - Signed for the expansion draft
Pavelec - UFA and buried on the Moose
Comrie - Excellent prospect
Phillips - Lukewarm about him
Berdin - USHL goalie of the week, recently made 59 saves in a game
No need to upgrade. Again the cost would be too high (negatively affect Hellebuycks development, expansion draft considerations, etc.). If we pick up a UFA goalie do we send down Hellebuyck or put Hutchinson on waivers? If someone claims Hutch that means we might have to expose Hellebuyck. If we send down Hellebuyck that cuts into his NHL development and Comries AHL development. The cost is too high! If the goalie we pick up is contracted beyond this season that means their cost is high and guess what? We will lose them to the expansion draft.
Also consider the Jets drastically changed their defensive zone coverage (now its man to man) and how young the team is, there's just no point in upgrading any spot except one : LHD. The current depth there is very bad and it wouldn't cost much to get an upgrade on Stuart or Chiarot.
You're welcome.
Great stuff, and I hear you.
My take is however this -- and I could be wrong for sure -- I think you guys are overrating your current roster and farm. I just don't see a bunch of very valuable players worth protecting and I just don't see an overfull farm not counting the players already in the NHL. I saw Joel Armia the first time in 2009, I know who he is. I am not a very big fan. Ok player, but not a great fit in today's game IMO and I don't think he is the type who can like help make a line special on a contender. Shawn Mattias is in the same mold for me. Drew Stafford brings a lot of energy, but to be honest he also lacks a lot of things in his game. A 6'6 forward like Adam Lowry just don't do much for me given how the game is looking.
I really like Connor, but like to me is a bit of a poor man's Teevu Teravainen if you get what I mean. Or "poor man's" is a bad choice of words, more like in the same mold as TT. Will need some time. Probably will become a good player. But not a lock to become a good player, also a kid that really needs to be put in the same environment. Wheeler is getting older. Little has a ton of miles on his body.
When you claim that JT Miller only would be a marginal upgrade over what you got, I just don't think you are right. Right or wrong, go and check the Rangers board, JT Miller is NYR's Nikolaj Ehlers, just 3 years longer into his development path. JT has pwned a U18 WJC. Been very good on a team that won a U20 WJCs. He came in as an optimistic puck hog who skated eights around everyone before crashing into someone or something. Then got a few years of tough love and has shaped up his 2-way game, and now is starting to find that mix.
Right or wrong, go and check the Rangers board, Chris Kreider is NYR's Mark Schleife. And Kreider has been just sick this season.
And I never proposed that Winnipeg should trade Trouba for forwards, I did include Brady Skjei in my proposal.
The goal at current is for a bunch of young players to grow together. The team is deep at forward; is that so difficult for you to grasp? Apparently it is, since you appear insistent to continually offer forwards to a team seeking D. Never mind.
Actually Gump, I have never made any kind of proposal with only forwards for Trouba. How about reading a posts before making personal attacks on a poster? That is apparently too much to ask for...
So you want to discuss the Jets without the jets fans. Hmm why are you here again? Every team has holes, but the jets have the issue at defense is that so effin horrible to admit.
Sorry don't agree, think Jets also has holes up front.
No one said it was perfect and even if we were it wouldn’t make you saying “Ehlers tops out as a 3rd liner” or “Scheifele will never be as good Backes” “Little is only a third line C” “Kyle Connor won’t be a top 9 forward” any less nonsensical.
Historically the Jets have been a good 5v5 team with bad goal-tending and problems with special teams but we think the pieces to fix this are already in place so our main flaw is that we are very young and need a D to do what Trouba can. Dylan McIlrath is not that D.
Actually I never wrote any of the things you quoted, you took everything I said and twisted it. Why?
“Ehlers tops out as a 3rd liner” = I said, Ehlers will at least become a great 3rd lineer/good 2nd liner, how much potential does he have if he finds more of a scoring touch?
“Scheifele will never be as good Backes” = I said, is Scheifele the next Backes or the next Toews?
“Little is only a third line C” = I never commented on Little??
“Kyle Connor won’t be a top 9 forward” = Never said that, said that he hasn't been great so far, but its too early to pass judgement on him.
Like why do you make things up? Does it really make you feel that much better? Sorry if I offended you in any way, which I recon I must have done to cause this reaction...
Petan, De Leo, Roslovic, Dano, Comrie, Lemieux, Spacek, Lipon, Harkins.
You are on a sight called Hockeysfuture, it's not that hard to research:
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/winnipeg-jets/
You'll notice one position missing from that top 9. Not a single defenceman.
Yeah I know about it, and Winnipeg isn't the only organization with a roster of NHL players and a farm. You should surf around some at that place, would give you a better perspective.
Just think you guys are overrating these kids a bit. Hope I am wrong, always liked Winnipeg!
Armia has been great this year but is a middle 6 forward at best - good to go between the 1st and 2nd lines. He has been great this year, a bit snakebitten in front of goal, but still one of the most effective forwards on the team. Perreault is a game changer, but I feel he's a bit streaky and is prone to injury - that said, he's an effective "middle 6" guy.
JT Miller and Kreider are good forwards - I like the Rangers so I might watch them a little more than the average Jets fan, but the issue with your original proposal is that it's not just adding Miller and Kreider, it's taking away Ehlers so they're really only filling one hole.
I think the issue that's being taken with your posts is that you underrate the Jets players and prospects. It's a young team, and is not a contender this year, but there's no point creating holes that don't need to be created - ie. trading Ehlers (who's better than a 3rd liner).
Throwing in McIlrath added no value. So it's basically Trouba and Ehlers for Kreider, Miller, and Skjei, which is not a great value trade for Winnipeg.
Yeah, you are probably right. Since Trouba is holding out, its 3 in and 1 out from the current roster, but that is besides the point. Like I said, I do think someone will pay more than NYR is able to eventually. That offer is not great value for Winnipeg. But I do not however agree that it is a worthless joke of a return. I actually think its pretty decent. That is THREE very good young hockey players already established in the NHL and proven winners. Would really change the outlook of Winnipeg instantly. Can you imagine having Schleife AND Kreider on the same team? That would be pretty sick. Miller is very very good young hockey player. Skjei has just been sick so far this season. Many argue that he is NYR's 2nd best D right now.
