GDT: Training Camp: Oh, Hockey’s Back

[will1066]

Right, like I'm not saying there's no difference, but the margins are ridiculously small.

Every single team in the AHL would be better at even strength than the best NHL team shorthanded.

I don't doubt your statistical analysis but I do think you're giving short shrift to PKers ability to prevent initial PP setups, and DZ FO wins matter. The good PK teams limit setup time, and FO wins lead to clears and eat up PP time as the PP team needs to reset.

 

[brakeyawself]

The only penalty killer that actually matters is your goaltender.

NHL teams on the powerplay take 85% of the shots and score 90% of the goals during special teams play. The 31st ranked powerplay last year had an expected goals rate a full goal and a half better than the highest scoring team did at even strength.

It's largely a lost cause on defense. Your goaltender has to prevent PPGA. Forwards can have an impact but basically only by scoring a shorthanded goal. Defensemen on the PK are just standing there hoping a shot hits them.

We don't need Fox to do that and I would actively rather he didn't.

If Lundkvist and/or Jones eventually reach their potential, we might not "need" Fox on the PP either. All though, I would be fine with Fox spending more of his minutes on 5x5/even strength with just PP2 time. Dependent on IF the former regarding Lundkvist/Jones comes to fruition. It might be Lundkvists best shot at adequate playing time for the foreseeable future, unless he can and does successfully switch to LD. But even then, he has some at least near equivalent talent to contend with.

I get it, Fox was great on the PP second half of last season. First half of last season though, many were questioning whether he should be on the PP1 at all. But I think IF we had other suitable PP Dmen, we don't necessarily NEED Fox to spend all those minutes on the PP. And he's so good in all situations, I think more minutes at 5x5/even strength would just benefit the team as a whole. And I do think Lundkvist's game, at least for now, looks well suited to play alongside guys like Fox or Jones on the PP as more of a sniper to their puck moving through the neutral zone.

Miller, at least based on last season's play, I don't think is a threat to usurp anyone on the PP. I don't think Jones makes the team out of preseason, but there's a chance he could outplay Miller in preseason and sometime during the season, replace or at least be rotated in to the LD mix. At the expense of either Miller or Nemeth. But it's very unlikely that would happen at the beginning of the season for more than a few games before Jones would head back down to the AHL for a bit.

 

[RangerBoy]

The idea, we’re told, was born in 2005-06, when Chris Drury was co-captain in Buffalo, and the Sabres brought a retired referee to training camp to work with the team on the rules changes that arose out of the Shanahan Summit during Owners’ Lockout II.

Sixteen years later and now the general manager of the Rangers, Drury reached into his past and then out to retired NHL linesman Pierre Racicot to work with his team on faceoffs during the opening days of training camp.

Racicot, a 54-year-old veteran of 1,880 regular season games and 254 playoff contests, who dropped the puck tens of thousands of times, worked with the club’s faceoff men following each of Friday’s training camp sessions, imparting his wisdom regarding rules at the dots and advice on positioning and stance.

In his six seasons with Florida and Vegas (two full seasons plus part of a third in each stop), there were only five instances in which a player averaged at least 20:00 of ice per game, with Panthers defenseman Brian Campbell leading the way with 23:13 in 2014-15 and 22:17 the following season. Vincent Trocheck, at 20:33 in 2016-17, is the only forward to hit the 20:00 mark under Gallant, and that was over the first 22 games of the season before the coach was kicked to the curb.

This becomes part of the narrative because Gallant on Friday talked about not overworking Adam Fox, who logged an average of 24:42 per last season, 11th in the league. Fox, who averaged 18:22 at even-strength (65th in the league), 3:45 on the power play (19th) and 2:36 on the penalty-kill (42nd), played 25:00 or more in 25 games, including 11 of at least 27:00.

“We’re not going to kill the guy by playing him 30:00 a night. That’s not going to happen,” said Gallant. “We’re going to use him when we need him.

Rangers using innovative approach to help end faceoff woes

 

[Machinehead]

I don't doubt your statistical analysis but I do think you're giving short shrift to PKers ability to prevent initial PP setups, and DZ FO wins matter. The good PK teams limit setup time, and FO wins lead to clears and eat up PP time as the PP team needs to reset.

I mean, it matters to an extent. Like Hayes and Miller letting their teammates go 2v5 because YOLO was obviously a worse strategy.

The thing is that you can teach anybody who can stand in skates to go into a basic prevent setup.

These setups aren't particularly good, they're done out of necessity, and having great players do them doesn't make it particularly better.

It's sort of like first base. Baseball analytics kill first basemen defensively. That's not because they don't have an influence; it's because anybody who plays baseball at a professional level should be able to play first base.

The forwards may have more of a role. You mentioned faceoffs and they score almost all of the shorthanded goals which is the most valuable thing you can do on the PK.

On defense, anybody who in plays in the NHL should be able to do it. I have no reason to believe Fox is going to be better at swinging his stick side to side and getting hit with shots then Patrik Nemeth.

Maybe Staal was particularly bad and that's just because Staal hasn't put any effort into anything since 2011. Anybody trying can do it and it's not worth the injury risk.

 

[Machinehead]

If Lundkvist and/or Jones eventually reach their potential, we might not "need" Fox on the PP either. All though, I would be fine with Fox spending more of his minutes on 5x5/even strength with just PP2 time. Dependent on IF the former regarding Lundkvist/Jones comes to fruition. It might be Lundkvists best shot at adequate playing time for the foreseeable future, unless he can and does successfully switch to LD. But even then, he has some at least near equivalent talent to contend with.

I get it, Fox was great on the PP second half of last season. First half of last season though, many were questioning whether he should be on the PP1 at all. But I think IF we had other suitable PP Dmen, we don't necessarily NEED Fox to spend all those minutes on the PP. And he's so good in all situations, I think more minutes at 5x5/even strength would just benefit the team as a whole. And I do think Lundkvist's game, at least for now, looks well suited to play alongside guys like Fox or Jones on the PP as more of a sniper to their puck moving through the neutral zone.

Miller, at least based on last season's play, I don't think is a threat to usurp anyone on the PP. I don't think Jones makes the team out of preseason, but there's a chance he could outplay Miller in preseason and sometime during the season, replace or at least be rotated in to the LD mix. At the expense of either Miller or Nemeth. But it's very unlikely that would happen at the beginning of the season for more than a few games before Jones would head back down to the AHL for a bit.

Nah, if we had prime Leetch, we would be running three forwards. That's how good Fox is on the powerplay.

Nobody was ever questioning if he belonged on the powerplay. We were questioning if Zibanejad belonged on the powerplay. If Zibanejad didn't have covid/a concussion/polio/leprosy/whatever the f*** was going on the first half, Fox would have had 70 points in 56 games.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

I mean, it matters to an extent. Like Hayes and Miller letting their teammates go 2v5 because YOLO was obviously a worse strategy.

The thing is that you can teach anybody who can stand in skates to go into a basic prevent setup.

These setups aren't particularly good, they're done out of necessity, and having great players do them doesn't make it particularly better.

It's sort of like first base. Baseball analytics kill first basemen defensively. That's not because they don't have an influence; it's because anybody who plays baseball at a professional level should be able to play first base.

The forwards may have more of a role. You mentioned faceoffs and they score almost all of the shorthanded goals which is the most valuable thing you can do on the PK.

On defense, anybody who in plays in the NHL should be able to do it. I have no reason to believe Fox is going to be better at swinging his stick side to side and getting hit with shots then Patrik Nemeth.

Maybe Staal was particularly bad and that's just because Staal hasn't put any effort into anything since 2011. Anybody trying can do it and it's not worth the injury risk.

This reminds me of the narrative years ago that Callahan was a good defensive forward because he killed penalties well and blocked a lot of shots.

Callahan was in fact a shitty defensive forward who regularly took himself out of the play and didn’t have the IQ to keep up with top forwards defensively.

Good penalty killing =\ Good defense

 

[huerter]

DOUBLE SHIFT YOUR BEST PLAYERS!

 

[Sockosensei]

Kakko & Laf:
Gallant's laid back attitude is exactly what they need now. They can play on instinct without hesitation and worry. These guys are self-motivators, and DQ has probably set them up with good habits.

Reaves:
I can't remember liking any player this much after 3 minutes of a presser. This is a guy you want on your team. Now I hope he can still play.

 

[egelband]

Lol I’m so pumped for all the kids but man that was a sick little move off the boards by Laf on Krav. I know it’s just a scrimmage but it was a beauty. Looking forward to him getting unleashed and playing with more confidence this year.

Thankfully, Laf is also a kid

 

[eco's bones]

I thought he showed himself excellently in his stint here especially given all the changes he would have faced coming from the KHL. He was dangerous with the puck, he protected it well, he was one of the few players on this team at the end that made you stand up when he got the puck. He's not a 18 year old kid and he's not a checking forward, the management lead us to believe players would be slotted where they belonged on this roster. Kreider has his contract, you can pretty much play him anywhere, it doesnt matter, we keep tooling around with Kravtsov and he may walk out the door.

He’s a skilled player sure. I would expect he will produce more this year. Still he’s put up 4 NHL points so far and doesn’t have much of an NHL track record. His AHL track record is okay and his KHL track record is good but not great. His play and production on the ice is going to place him where he belongs and I’m sure Gallant is going to give him a good chance. I’m not sure that’s going to justify a permanent spot in the top 6. I would give Kreider better odds. My guess also is that Kreider is going to get a decent amount of power play time. Why? Because he can hang in front of the net and be a major distraction and bang in a decent amount of goals doing it.

 

[RGY]

Feeling real high on this season. Gallant will be a big improvement, added experience and grit to the lineup, Laf and Kakko due to break out, Fox at an elite level. Call me crazy but I’m optimistic

I am also with you.

This team could have made the playoffs last year with better coaching and experienced veteran depth. They had the talent up front. They almost made the playoffs with Mika having an awful start for a variety of reasons and Panarin having to leave the team for a few weeks. Even if they had a favorable schedule for a stretch in the last 4 weeks or so, they took care of business like other competing teams were doing in the division.

I think you are going to see a team that looks way more prepared to play from puck drop than we have in the last few years under David Quinn. Way more consistency. A better compete level. Smarter personnel decisions by the coaching staff both leading up to game night and during the game.

I also think Igor is going to be a lot better this year. Its not to say he was bad last year, but he just wasn’t up to par.

I also think this team is built well for an 82 game season. They have good depth all around. I mean Hunt-Barron-Gauthier could be a 4th line on a lot of the teams around the NHL. The group is young still, they have the energy and the talent. They have players that will understand their roles and succeed in them.

Yeah I think there is a feeling amongst NHL fans/analysts that this team could* make the playoffs as a wild card team, but I see this team as a the 3rd team in the Metro behind the Islanders and Carolina. There is a chance for that. Pittsburgh is older and Malkin is possibly missing the first 2 months. Washington same thing with Backstrom likely missing a good amount of time. Philly had a huge roster shake up.

Gona be a fun year

 

[Fitzy]

Brooks noted some fun facts about Gallant's minute distribution in his coaching career.

The cliff notes version is that we are gonna see much more of a four line rotation, which should be particularly helpful for guys like Chytil and Kravtsov if they are on the third line.

Fox and Zibanejad played more per game last season than any defenseman or forward has on any Gallant coached team ever.

 

[Cmox]

Shesty lid


I love the font and eagle.

 

[Big Chunky Bubbles]

That's not because of Carp. That's because he is the Rangers reporter.

It's definitely a combo. I'm with you all on Carp. I wish the Athletic would give the reins to Shayna or Vince.

The fact is, he was one of the first if not only beat writer for the Rangers actively engaging with fans in the comment section and likely brought a lot of that activity over to the Athletic

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Absolutely LOVING that Gallant and Drury are addressing the face offs.

Even if it’s bringing in a retired linesman to give them some hints… anything.

This team has been abysmal in that area for over a decade

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Did MSG seriously not do a training camp special this year? Do they even care hockey is back?

They haven’t the past couple of years. I don’t get it. The coverage has literally gotten progressively worse since the Torts era. Everywhere.

In a world where the bottom line is directly tied to flowing content. It’s there on Twitter, in pieces. I guess they just don’t believe TV is worth the extra production costs?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

They haven’t the past couple of years. I don’t get it. The coverage has literally gotten progressively worse since the Torts era. Everywhere.

In a world where the bottom line is directly tied to flowing content. It’s mind boggling to me. It’s there on Twitter. I guess they just don’t believe TV is worth the extra production costs?

They don't give a shit. It's infuriating, but what can we do? They missed a golden opportunity to create a special connection between this young core and its fanbase with some rebuild-focused content but all we get is 10-second videos on Twitter.

 

[RGY]

It's definitely a combo. I'm with you all on Carp. I wish the Athletic would give the reins to Shayna or Vince.

The fact is, he was one of the first if not only beat writer for the Rangers actively engaging with fans in the comment section and likely brought a lot of that activity over to the Athletic

Carp is a lazy pos. His reporting is anything but. Its sad the Athletic has not been able to find any one better to cover the New York Rangers. Carp engages the fans? How? By tweeting out “Good Period?” over and over again? That’s all he does, every game. Man I would love to have that job if that is considered quality engagement. Hey let me take 10 seconds to tweet that out after the period ends and then go back to whatever I was doing, which is probably not even really watching the game. the Athletic will never get a dime from me while he is covering the team.


Vince, although still new, is much better. More quality content and even engagement. Shayna is really good too. But its crap coverage from people like Carp that give those Rangers fan bloggers hope that they can be something.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Should we be talking about the goaltending a little more?

Of course Igor is the man, but we need Georgey to regain the form he had a couple seasons ago if this team is gonna go places.

Igor himself didn’t have a stellar season. Good but not great. This is a big year for him to get consistent and steal some games, especially after the commitment the Rangers offered him.

 

[egelband]

Reaves elite

Untapped potential. No one gave him a shot.

 

[egelband]

Doesnt seem like it and the plan is to scrimmage tomorrow as well.

Thats what I was talking about in the Gallant thread. Completely different approach than the prior 3 regimes. Almost a hands-off lax approach. Im sure the players appreciate it lol

I can see the value. Conditioning doesn’t really require a team. It should be on the players to be staying in shape, not using camp to get into shape. The benefit of getting everyone together is they can learn how to play with each other and develop accountability and cooperation.

 

[egelband]

The covid weight would have been regained just by going back to normal.

200 is even lighter than he was last year.

He probably got the “variants”.

 

[egelband]

what a f***ing competitor. bet laf would run over messier in a rangers alumni game then give him a shot in the back when mess tried getting up.

60 year old Messier would still beat him up.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

If they insist on naming a C I give it to Reaves until Laf is ready. One of the best personalities in the sport.

Absolutely loved everything he said in this. His description of his role and grinding other teams down and it trickling up the lineup was perfect.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I think you make a good point.

I mean, there is definitely a difference in the skaters if you look at like say the three worst PKing teams in the league and the three best, right.

But in between, the marginals aren’t big. And in fact, the same goes for a huge portion of the PPs and 5 on 5 hockey. Ultimatly, you can get far in the regular season by not giving games away. Because if there is one constant in hockey, it’s that it’s easy to give a game away. It doesn’t take much. A team like Ottawa can start the season like 1-5-1, but when looking at the actual games, they are fairly close, small margins, much is self inflicted…

You guys are both right, it's why situational awareness by the coaches and willingness to make adjustments and stuff is so important.

There's only two instances I can recall of skaters profoundly affecting PK performance and they happened a year apart.

14-15 when Rick Nash had the best penalty killing season since hockey was invented and the following year when Kevin Hayes and JT Miller decided to kill penalties by just...not doing that, f*** it.

Needless to say, they went in opposite directions.

Man Nash was such a fantastic PKer, he was such a great two way player.