GDT: Training Camp discussion - Camp now open

[notDatsyuk]

Agreed.

And Draisaitl and Nylander both suck at keeping the puck out of their own net.

Drai is averaging about a +20 over the last four years, and we haven't seen Willy at C (or without JT) yet, but ok.

 

[LeafSteel]

What if they choose to let Marner walk to free up the money only for free agency to work out like it has the last two years?

Your question is fair and that is the unknown element here.

What and who does Treliving spend that money on?

Bring in an overpriced non performing player and we are definitely worse off and Treliving would have blown a defining moment in his tenure. You cannot move off from a player of Marner’s calibre and blow it.

If Marner had been traded this offseason and we had used most of the money to sing Lindholm at 2C and Matt Roy, then yes, we are a better and more balanced team.

This where pro and anti Treliving sentiment will drive the narrative. I prefer to look at each move he makes.

Much more unknown than known here, but my response was to a poster who started carte blanche this team is a worse team without Marner, with no consideration of what personnel would be brought in with the cap space.

That is what I was addressing.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I would think they'll come to an agreement, unless another team steps up with a Tanev stupid deal.

It’s been decided I’m sure.

Leafs will make no announcements until the Marner situation is clearer.

 

[notbias]

Drai is averaging about a +20 over the last four years, and we haven't seen Willy at C (or without JT) yet, but ok.

Playoffs?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Our depth has been awful in the playoffs.

You get what you pay for.

 

[LeafSteel]

Remember him well. It was such a shock to hear on the morning news what he had done. Too bad the first try was not successful, but when you consider the advancements that have occurred since then, it is truly remarkable and has changed many, many lives.

Since Dr. Barnard was South African, it reminded me of the Jonathon Bernier response to a question about Nelson Mandela, another South African who changed the world, about a year after his death.

“Well obviously growing up, he’s one of the most known athletes in the world. A lot of impact in any kind of sport that he did, and even playing hockey, everyone knows him, right? From being the type of person that he was off the ice and on the ice. It’s unfortunate that he passed a year ago, but, he changed a lot while he was with us, and he’s a tremendous guy.”

I still wince when I read this quote.

 

[Evilhomer]

What a weird comment.

In the grand scheme of things all of humanity we're all just an infinitely small dot on an infinitely small dot in a universe billions of light years across, so sure nothing matters...

Except to us . It matters to us.

He was freaking Captain of the Maple Leafs and this is a place we talk about it.

This is not a Wendy's sir.

I've lost count of the number of people who didn't spot the sarcasm. That said, Sundin wouldn't be near the top of the list of my favourite Leafs. I am much more of a fanboy of a guy like Wendel Clark or Rick Vaive.

 

[Sypher04]

He 100% is and should be. He's cheap, versatile and has shown plenty of growth in his game -- especially in the physicality aspect.

If this team plays Lorentz or Reaves over him, they are incredibly stupid. I refuse to believe they are.

Whether he should be or not, which I think is somewhat arguable, I’m not totally convinced he is one of their 12 as things currently stand

 

[Racer88]

That will never happen. You can't be successful as a coach trying to make someone into something they are not.

I figure it will take to the 20 game mark before we start to see everything Berube is trying to implement, and he might bench someone for a period or a few shifts along the way, but he won't healthy scratch anyone.

Then expect the same results when the game is on the line

 

[stickty111]

Whether he should be or not, which I think is somewhat arguable, I’m not totally convinced he is one of their 12 as things currently stand

There is no question he's one of their best 12 on merit, but whether the team will follow merit is the question

 

[Gabriel426]

Your question is fair and that is the unknown element here.

What and who does Treliving spend that money on?

Bring in an overpriced non performing player and we are definitely worse off and Treliving would have blown a defining moment in his tenure. You cannot move off from a player of Marner’s calibre and blow it.

If Marner had been traded this offseason and we had used most of the money to sing Lindholm at 2C and Matt Roy, then yes, we are a better and more balanced team.

This where pro and anti Treliving sentiment will drive the narrative. I prefer to look at each move he makes.

Much more unknown than known here, but my response was to a poster who started carte blanche this team is a worse team without Marner, with no consideration of what personnel would be brought in with the cap space.

That is what I was addressing.

Agree with this 100%.

At the end playoffs results matters.

Like when JT left Islanders, everyone thought Islanders will be in trouble and they ended up going to back to back Conf Finals. While everyone thought the Leafs will win it all and Leafs ended up winning ONE round in 6 yrs.
Not saying Islanders is better off now since a lot happened to the Islanders ever since. BUT I think any teams would take Back to Back Conf Finals over Back to Back 1st round exits in the two years after JT left the Islanders.

Look at the Tkachuk trade, Flames managed to get a 1st rounder, 1 pairing RD in Weegar and 100pt LW- who was penciled in as McD LW on Team Canada at that time if they can send Pros to the Olympics, for Tkachuk who wants out.
At that time, I don’t think anyone thought Panthers won that trade and at best it was a good hockey trade on both sides.

But nobody will deny Panthers won that trade by a mile now. Even if Hube didn’t fall off the cliff and maintained his 100pts seasons, the fact that Panthers went to the Finals and then Won a Cup the following year showed they won the trade.

At the end, winning in playoffs matters and if the Leafs win the Cup, any decisions is the right decision.

 

[Reijo]

Agree with this 100%.

At the end playoffs results matters.

Like when JT left Islanders, everyone thought Islanders will be in trouble and they ended up going to back to back Conf Finals. While everyone thought the Leafs will win it all and Leafs ended up winning ONE round in 6 yrs.
Not saying Islanders is better off now since a lot happened to the Islanders ever since. BUT I think any teams would take Back to Back Conf Finals over Back to Back 1st round exits in the two years after JT left the Islanders.

Look at the Tkachuk trade, Flames managed to get a 1st rounder, 1 pairing RD in Weegar and 100pt LW- who was penciled in as McD LW on Team Canada at that time if they can send Pros to the Olympics, for Tkachuk who wants out.
At that time, I don’t think anyone thought Panthers won that trade and at best it was a good hockey trade on both sides.

But nobody will deny Panthers won that trade by a mile now. Even if Hube didn’t fall off the cliff and maintained his 100pts seasons, the fact that Panthers went to the Finals and then Won a Cup the following year showed they won the trade.

At the end, winning in playoffs matters and if the Leafs win the Cup, any decisions is the right decision.

When a teacher makes a team with four core players nylander matthews tavares and marner who are not willing to do (anything) to win, the it wont work. You have to yzerman-claude lemieux-roy it up, to win. Cheat, fight, hit, eat noses and scramble. Cheat. We are not being doing that. Not with the core of these players. For that to change... its not even probable. Even if one of them would do something special, like dropping a key guy or like telling it off by talking in every single game... even words can kill. We have not been able to do that. Now we will see again where will this same core lead us.... gary roberts, sundin tucker thomas belfoue quinn almost did that. See why? Read my post again and you'see. And learn why.

 

[Gabriel426]

When a teacher makes a team with four core players nylander matthews tavares and marner who are not willing to do (anything) to win, the it wont work. You have to yzerman-claude lemieux-roy it up, to win. Cheat, fight, hit, eat noses and scramble. Cheat. We are not being doing that. Not with the core of these players. For that to change... its not even probable. Even if one of them would do something special, like dropping a key guy or like telling it off by talking in every single game... even words can kill. We have not been able to do that. Now we will see again where will this same core lead us.... gary roberts, sundin tucker thomas belfoue quinn almost did that. See why? Read my post again and you'see. And learn why.

I agree.
That’s why I call them Beta Chokers. They are Beta type players playing in an Alpha Role.

Like let’s say Reilly, Tanev, OEL and McCabe are injured, Lilly will become our No.1 Dman. Is he a No.1 Dman is another question but he has to play that role.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What if they choose to let Marner walk to free up the money only for free agency to work out like it has the last two years?

I'm not following, how has it "worked out"? We haven't really done much as we haven't the cap space to spend, unless you call signing guys like Domi, Bertuzzi, Reaves or whoever else as major moves so not sure what you mean.

Kind of the irony, isn't it? Everyone here bitches about the core and how they "never show up", and despite that they came one goal from knocking off the two-time defending Cup champions in a series where the only players that showed up were the CORE.
The Leafs playoff issues are almost entirely a product of bad goaltending and Keefe's inability to get the entire team firing at the same time; instead, either the core is going and no one else is, or that desired out-of-nowhere player actually shows up... And is the only one.

Why stop there? If you consider almost winning to be an accomplishment, you could go on and on and on about what this group has accomplished over the years.

IMHO, the biggest reason we can't get over the hump is our legendary inability to score goals in game 7. Hard to blame the goalie when you can't score and I don't know how you can blame the coach when the players keep playing poorly in game 7.

Your question is fair and that is the unknown element here.

What and who does Treliving spend that money on?

Bring in an overpriced non performing player and we are definitely worse off and Treliving would have blown a defining moment in his tenure. You cannot move off from a player of Marner’s calibre and blow it.

If Marner had been traded this offseason and we had used most of the money to sing Lindholm at 2C and Matt Roy, then yes, we are a better and more balanced team.

This where pro and anti Treliving sentiment will drive the narrative. I prefer to look at each move he makes.

Much more unknown than known here, but my response was to a poster who started carte blanche this team is a worse team without Marner, with no consideration of what personnel would be brought in with the cap space.

That is what I was addressing.

Based on recent performance, bending over for Marner or his dad or whoever is making decisions this time around would be blowing a defining moment. Save the cap space for something else, maybe it works out and maybe it doesn't (there are never any guarantees no matter what) but the chances of success while spending a ton on Marner seem pretty darn slim to me.

If Marner kills it in the playoffs next spring, that could change things but as it stands right now, I'd rather bet on someone else for a change.

 

[Lightsol]

I'm not following, how has it "worked out"? We haven't really done much as we haven't the cap space to spend, unless you call signing guys like Domi, Bertuzzi, Reaves or whoever else as major moves so not sure what you mean.

What exactly kinds of pieces do you think we're getting through free agency with Marner's $11 million? Bertuzzi signed for half of that, $5 million. If we're replacing Marner with "2 or 3 guys", it's going to be 2 or 3 guys at the Bertuzzi/Domi level.

 

[Jojalu]

Then expect the same results when the game is on the line

Meh. Maybe.

If he can somehow fix the PP alone in the playoffs the Leafs would have a way better shot at winning a few series.

Last 2 years they have been more than physical enough. Their D and goaltending have been fine, they just can't score. At least when it matters most