Training Camp continued

[LeafSteel]

No, re-entry waivers were eliminated in the 2012 CBA.

Wow, nice to know I'm only a decade behind on this.

Beers are on me!

 

[DarkKnight]

Is Steeves making the team?

I thought he was terrible last night to be honest, perhaps our worst forward.

 

[Rude Dog]

No way Simmonds stays on this team with a 1.5m hit.

Interesting. I personally prefer others to Simmonds but man do I like him when other teams start taking advantage of our guys. Guys like Jackeye last night in the Habs are going to take shots at our guys all year with no fear If there is no one in our line up who will act as a deterrent.

 

[Mad hatter]

Interesting. I personally prefer others to Simmonds but man do I like him when other teams start taking advantage of our guys. Guys like Jackeye last night in the Habs are going to take shots at our guys all year with no fear If there is no one in our line up who will act as a deterrent.

There’s definitely better players then Simmons who will be sent down but having a deterrent on the bench is important imho. I don’t think he should be on the team but, cap permitting, it would be nice to have him around to dress against some teams.

 

[Fogelhund]

Interesting. I personally prefer others to Simmonds but man do I like him when other teams start taking advantage of our guys. Guys like Jackeye last night in the Habs are going to take shots at our guys all year with no fear If there is no one in our line up who will act as a deterrent.

Jackeye is likely to spend his year in the AHL. I get the idea though... not much here to provide that, and unfortunately Simmonds and Clifford have gone past their best before dates. Let's hope that our man Curtis Douglas can improve enough as a player, to take that role in the next year or two.

 

[ponder]

Worth noting that last training camp/pre-season, people were saying "Simmonds is washed, shouldn't make the team". He made the team, played almost every game (72 GP), and was decent. He had the most fights on the team by far (he and Clifford were basically the only ones to fight), forechecked hard, solid hitter, lower end offence and defence but not terrible. I don't think he looks any different this training camp than last, I suspect he'll play a good number of games.

Literally nobody else on the team will fight, Simmonds is necessary for that alone.

 

[zeke]

Worth noting that last training camp/pre-season, people were saying "Simmonds is washed, shouldn't make the team". He made the team, played almost every game (72 GP), and was decent. He had the most fights on the team by far (he and Clifford were basically the only ones to fight), forechecked hard, solid hitter, lower end offence and defence but not terrible. I don't think he looks any different this training camp than last, I suspect he'll play a good number of games.

Literally nobody else on the team will fight, Simmonds is necessary for that alone.

I'd argue that the 4th line was a pretty big weakness last year.

 

[LeafSteel]

Absolutely love the competition we have in camp this year.

Only wish is that it could have included Knies, Topi, and Roni. Of course Liljegren, Tavares, and Muzzin getting hurt all kind of blows….

Really would have liked to see how they would perform given the talent and competitive quality and quantity in camp this year.

Already looking forward to seeing Knies around the trade deadline when the collegiate season is over. Roni and Topi I’m assuming will have to wait until next season’s training camp…….?

 

[Ciao]

I don't think Simmonds should make the team. He's not good enough anymore.

They could waive him, send him down and not require him to report to the Marlies. Paid leave. A winter off. If he wants to keep busy they could give him some kind of off-ice role with the Leafs.

They need better players on the third and fourth lines.

When will the Leafs make their roster moves?

 

[ponder]

I'd argue that the 4th line was a pretty big weakness last year.

Obviously they were our weakest line by a good margin, but that's true for basically all 4th lines. Simmonds was -7 over 72 games, so a net -1 every 10 games. For that you get someone who fights and keeps the opposition a bit more honest. Obviously it's not guaranteed that Simmonds would have a similar +/- this year, or that his replacement would be even, but I think you'd be looking very roughly in that range - we're probably about 1 goal worse every 10-15 games with Simmonds instead of ZAR or Aube-Kubel.

FWIW, I have Simmer as the 13th forward. I wouldn't play him every game, but on games we think are likely to get chippy, he'd be in. On games we think will be less chippy, he'd be out (replaced by one of ZAR or Aube-Kubel). Basically an opponent-by-opponent decision (quite a common way to go with fighters). I'd probably play him in ~1/3 of the games.

 

[fahad203]

I don't think Simmonds should make the team. He's not good enough anymore.

They could waive him, send him down and not require him to report to the Marlies. Paid leave. A winter off. If he wants to keep busy they could give him some kind of off-ice role with the Leafs.

They need better players on the third and fourth lines.

When will the Leafs make their roster moves?

As much as I have been a opponent of Simmonds I rather have him over Kubel.

Simmonds looked better last year when he was rotated out.

Problem wasn't necessarily just Simmonds, he played with Spezza. Which made it the slowest line in the league

 

[kb]

Obviously they were our weakest line by a good margin, but that's true for basically all 4th lines. Simmonds was -7 over 72 games, so a net -1 every 10 games. For that you get someone who fights and keeps the opposition a bit more honest. Obviously it's not guaranteed that Simmonds would have a similar +/- this year, or that his replacement would be even, but I think you'd be looking very roughly in that range - we're probably about 1 goal worse every 10-15 games with Simmonds instead of ZAR or Aube-Kubel.

FWIW, I have Simmer as the 13th forward. I wouldn't play him every game, but on games we think are likely to get chippy, he'd be in. On games we think will be less chippy, he'd be out (replaced by one of ZAR or Aube-Kubel). Basically an opponent-by-opponent decision (quite a common way to go with fighters). I'd probably play him in ~1/3 of the games.

He accumulated that -7 playing sheltered and small minutes against other team's 4th lines.

That's not a ringing endorsement.

As much as I have been a opponent of Simmonds I rather have him over Kubel.

Simmonds looked better last year when he was rotated out.

Problem wasn't necessarily just Simmonds, he played with Spezza. Which made it the slowest line in the league

To get the best lineup, the Leafs will be most likely run a 20 player roster, so the 4th line needs to play more minutes and have zero rotation.

 

[zeke]

Obviously they were our weakest line by a good margin, but that's true for basically all 4th lines. Simmonds was -7 over 72 games, so a net -1 every 10 games. For that you get someone who fights and keeps the opposition a bit more honest. Obviously it's not guaranteed that Simmonds would have a similar +/- this year, or that his replacement would be even, but I think you'd be looking very roughly in that range - we're probably about 1 goal worse every 10-15 games with Simmonds instead of ZAR or Aube-Kubel.

FWIW, I have Simmer as the 13th forward. I wouldn't play him every game, but on games we think are likely to get chippy, he'd be in. On games we think will be less chippy, he'd be out (replaced by one of ZAR or Aube-Kubel). Basically an opponent-by-opponent decision (quite a common way to go with fighters). I'd probably play him in ~1/3 of the games.

not just the weakest line, but a line that had to use up extreme sheltered usage minutes too. just not a line that served any actual purpose. the projected 4th line this year looks like a line that you actually want to use in certain situations, not one you just try to get through sheltered usage without getting hurt.

Simmonds as a 13th guy would be fine but we don't have the cap for that.

 

[Ciao]

Being stuck with a 20-player roster really hurts the team.

There's usually not much to choose at the bottom of the roster, and it's really hard to make the right calls at every position right off the bat. If they make the wrong calls and lose the extras off waivers, that really sets the team back.

They would also lose the flexibility to rotate players in and out of the press box according to the schedule. That hurts, too.

Plus, without the press box, the players can get complacent. If it takes too big a roster move -- i.e. waivers -- to send a message, then that's not good either.

If there's no use of LTIR, then the Leafs are right up against it, and much too close against the cap for my liking.

I'm anything but a Dubas critic, but I would criticize his failure to leave enough cap space to carry a full roster.

 

[kb]

Being stuck with a 20-player roster really hurts the team.

There's usually not much to choose at the bottom of the roster, and it's really hard to make the right calls at every position right off the bat. If they make the wrong calls and lose the extras off waivers, that really sets the team back.

They would also lose the flexibility to rotate players in and out of the press box according to the schedule. That hurts, too.

Plus, without the press box, the players can get complacent. If it takes too big a roster move -- i.e. waivers -- to send a message, then that's not good either.

If there's no use of LTIR, then the Leafs are right up against it, and much too close against the cap for my liking.

I'm anything but a Dubas critic, but I would criticize his failure to leave enough cap space to carry a full roster.

I think it is a bit of a waste carrying more than a 20 man roster in the Leafs position. They need to afford better players, not more players.

But I will say that used to feel that very same way too, but realistically it's a waste of cap space paying at least league minimum salary every single night for someone who isn't even playing. The pressbox is not the best use of cap space.

 

[Gabriel426]

Not yet, no.

Thanks

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Worth noting that last training camp/pre-season, people were saying "Simmonds is washed, shouldn't make the team". He made the team, played almost every game (72 GP), and was decent. He had the most fights on the team by far (he and Clifford were basically the only ones to fight), forechecked hard, solid hitter, lower end offence and defence but not terrible. I don't think he looks any different this training camp than last, I suspect he'll play a good number of games.

Literally nobody else on the team will fight, Simmonds is necessary for that alone.

Good point. I think I want to look at him differently, but he's been fine all preseason.

There might be 1 reason he's put on waivers:

The Cap

Yes I know he makes 900,000, but that's not league min. I know it seems crazy, but every penny counts (sadly).

 

[Stephen]

Worth noting that last training camp/pre-season, people were saying "Simmonds is washed, shouldn't make the team". He made the team, played almost every game (72 GP), and was decent. He had the most fights on the team by far (he and Clifford were basically the only ones to fight), forechecked hard, solid hitter, lower end offence and defence but not terrible. I don't think he looks any different this training camp than last, I suspect he'll play a good number of games.

Literally nobody else on the team will fight, Simmonds is necessary for that alone.

Simmonds definitely fills a role and player type we don't have in abundance, but if his toolkit is something the Leafs value, I wonder why they don't get a healthier, prime age guy who can hit and fight.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Who in your humble opinion has not impressed during this training camp?

I think Holl is looking off, and Gaudette. I thought Gaudette would have had a legitimate shot, but he's been tripping over his own stick most nights. Holl is looking 2 or 3 steps behind.

He'll be fine when his tummy settles.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

I’m still really confused with the Aston-Reese camp situation. Keefe talks like he’s already on the team and Zach himself doesn’t seem all that worried about still being on a PTO. Surely other teams would want him and could offer him more money than we’ll be able to. Gotta think they’ve told him he’s got a contract coming, so does that mean a trade is being worked on?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

He'll be fine when his tummy settles.

Who will be fine?

 

[Advanced stats]

I’m still really confused with the Aston-Reese camp situation. Keefe talks like he’s already on the team and Zach himself doesn’t seem all that worried about still being on a PTO. Surely other teams would want him and could offer him more money than we’ll be able to. Gotta think they’ve told him he’s got a contract coming, so does that mean a trade is being worked on?

I thought I heard somewhere that it's beneficial if he signs after rosters are set. So I'm not holding my breathe waiting for him to sign in the next week.

 

[andora]

I thought I heard somewhere that it's beneficial if he signs after rosters are set. So I'm not holding my breathe waiting for him to sign in the next week.

He could even sign a week into the season or whenever a bit more roster clarity comes forth

Handshake agreement with a hard date

 

[cyris]

I’m still really confused with the Aston-Reese camp situation. Keefe talks like he’s already on the team and Zach himself doesn’t seem all that worried about still being on a PTO. Surely other teams would want him and could offer him more money than we’ll be able to. Gotta think they’ve told him he’s got a contract coming, so does that mean a trade is being worked on?

Just a guess. The team wants to keep contract flexibility and not move to the 50 contract limit. So he has been told he has a deal they just want to wait to see if someone gets claimed on waivers or if they need to make a trade.

Alternatively they cold be waiting until the final day to see what they can offer him to maximize the LTIR space once Liljegren is put on there.

 

[Ciao]

I’m still really confused with the Aston-Reese camp situation. Keefe talks like he’s already on the team and Zach himself doesn’t seem all that worried about still being on a PTO. Surely other teams would want him and could offer him more money than we’ll be able to. Gotta think they’ve told him he’s got a contract coming, so does that mean a trade is being worked on?

I think some roster moves will be made.

It beats me what they might be, but I agree that the Leafs give every impression that ZAR is on the team.