GDT: Training Camp 2021: Everyone Else Too Lazy to Make a Thread

[gravey9]

The one thing ill say is that Trouba should adjust and play whatever way the Rangers want him to. He got his money and security, he has nothing to "play" for except the team. If that means he pinches less and falls back a little to compensate for Deangelo being on the offense then he should have no problem with that.

There's being a good teammate and doing your best to play a position you're not that comfortable with. Which I'm sure Trouba might do.

But that doesn't mean he'll be good at it. We've misused a lot of D over the last decade -- putting them into positions to fail. I'd rather move someone to their offside if they are comfortable playing there already. The upside of moving Tony there is that his D zone coverage was already spotty. Moving him over may not make him measurably worse. If it did, that experiment will end quickly.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

TDA at LD really makes no sense to me, I hope I am wrong!

Everything becomes harder for him and we can’t utilize his strengths, from my POV it’s very odd that they are trying it. But I could be wrong, not claiming to know everything, JMO.

IN MOST CASES I'd agree 100%.

But he played the left side a ton as an amateur so there is a certain level of comfort with it, he's done it at the NHL level with success in a small sample size, but to this point there is more evidence of it working than the contrary.

Theres nothing wrong with giving it a longer look and this should have honestly happened sooner.

I'd rather he play it with Fox while pairing Lindgren and Trouba together, but they may f*** around with that in the coming days

 

[gravey9]

Question: Is Jacques Martin known for mentoring individual young players and rounding out their games? Or he is more about creating a D structure that minimizes everyone's faults? I ask, because if he's more the system guy, then it may flip Miller's development on its head. They may feel comfortable letting him play in the NHL if they can sufficiently cover up his weaknesses. But that would mean he'd be learning and rounding out his game in the NHL and I'd guess that may take considerable time and effort. Whereas having him learn in the A at a slower pace and under Murphy might be more about his development as a player vs creating a system to hide weaknesses.

 

[nyr2k2]

The one thing ill say is that Trouba should adjust and play whatever way the Rangers want him to. He got his money and security, he has nothing to "play" for except the team. If that means he pinches less and falls back a little to compensate for Deangelo being on the offense then he should have no problem with that.

I don't doubt that Trouba will try to adjust his game to whatever the team asks. I don't see him being a problem child or anything.

I don't think that asking him to become a different player is the best use of him as an asset, though. We committed a decent player, a good pick, and a huge contract to him--I think we should be trying to find someone that plays to his strengths like Morrissey, allowing him to be the guy that we signed, rather than asking him to become a stay-at-home defender (assuming that's what they want--it's all speculative of course).

If we want to get maximum value from him under his current contract he really needs to be playing a two-way game where he's putting up points.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

A few observations since I was busy most of the day preparing for the dreaded return of the 5 day work week:

-I hope Quinn and Martin aren't so stubborn with the D pairings and basically this is how they start and rookies can work their way up. Having two of your three pairs as either all RHD or all LHD is not a longterm recipe for success.

-I wasn't happy with Smith/Johnson being announced. If that's your plan for most of the season, I would start updating your resume. That is in fact the worst third pair in the NHL. I'm not the biggest Quinn fan anymore (first year I thought he was fine, last year he rubbed me the wrong way in the play-ins by how unprepared the team was) but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for one more season. If he's going to be stubborn with this pair I'd rather give the bench to Martin lol.

-Kreider: I saw some people commenting on how he looks great etc. He's paid very well to be a hockey player not a stuntman or an MCU superhero. He can be Mr. Atlas for all I care but is it going to help him score 30 goals? This season he won't hit 30 because it's shortened but pro-rated, anything less than 20 is not acceptable. When he hits 15-16 and disappears for games at a time, I don't want to hear the excuses about hit leadership etc. He's at the age now where potential is up and it's time for production.

-PK/Analytics/Defensive Structure: I don't know what Quinn is looking at but the team still gave up like 100 shot attempts a game late into the season. The goaltending was better but it was still pretty lackluster structure. The system/structure better change.

Howden/Barron: Everyone here must have been as annoyed with the Howden thing as I was about Smith/Johnson. It's cool though Barron is being given a crack at center. Hopefully he can seize it and work his way up in the rotation.

Overall it's very early and not much information/scrimmages, I just want to see progress and not so much stone age boneheadedness from this coach. Can this team be more prepared? Can the PK and D structure improve? Will he utilize 12 forwards and 6 D?

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[Fitzy]

Lines 1-3 in Group 2 and 2nd D pairing+Smith

Lines 2-4 in Group 2 and 1st D pairing + Johnson

I'll let yall guess who the other 4th liner is along with Lemieux and Howden/Barron

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

is this a tiktok

The music was some lame-ass Katy Perry sounding nonsense but remember these are millennial hockey players and they're not going to be blasting Pantera or Cypress Hill in the gym.

Most hockey players have that humble "aww shucks" thing going so they tend to stay away from controversy so you won't hear like that WOP track or anything.

I have to remember that my generation's (technically I'm a millenial but I consider myself more of a tweener) music was more extreme and testosterone driven and shocking. (I'd say better but I gotta know my audience here).

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The music was some lame-ass Katy Perry sounding nonsense but remember these are millennial hockey players and they're not going to be blasting Pantera or Cypress Hill in the gym.

Most hockey players have that humble "aww shucks" thing going so they tend to stay away from controversy so you won't hear like that WOP track or anything.

I have to remember that my generation's (technically I'm a millenial but I consider myself more of a tweener) music was more extreme and testosterone driven and shocking. (I'd say better but I gotta know my audience here).

Could at least listen to rap or something.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

A few observations since I was busy most of the day preparing for the dreaded return of the 5 day work week:

-I hope Quinn and Martin aren't so stubborn with the D pairings and basically this is how they start and rookies can work their way up. Having two of your three pairs as either all RHD or all LHD is not a longterm recipe for success.

-I wasn't happy with Smith/Johnson being announced. If that's your plan for most of the season, I would start updating your resume. That is in fact the worst third pair in the NHL. I'm not the biggest Quinn fan anymore (first year I thought he was fine, last year he rubbed me the wrong way in the play-ins by how unprepared the team was) but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for one more season. If he's going to be stubborn with this pair I'd rather give the bench to Martin lol.

-Kreider: I saw some people commenting on how he looks great etc. He's paid very well to be a hockey player not a stuntman or an MCU superhero. He can be Mr. Atlas for all I care but is it going to help him score 30 goals? This season he won't hit 30 because it's shortened but pro-rated, anything less than 20 is not acceptable. When he hits 15-16 and disappears for games at a time, I don't want to hear the excuses about hit leadership etc. He's at the age now where potential is up and it's time for production.

-PK/Analytics/Defensive Structure: I don't know what Quinn is looking at but the team still gave up like 100 shot attempts a game late into the season. The goaltending was better but it was still pretty lackluster structure. The system/structure better change.

Howden/Barron: Everyone here must have been as annoyed with the Howden thing as I was about Smith/Johnson. It's cool though Barron is being given a crack at center. Hopefully he can seize it and work his way up in the rotation.

Overall it's very early and not much information/scrimmages, I just want to see progress and not so much stone age boneheadedness from this coach. Can this team be more prepared? Can the PK and D structure improve? Will he utilize 12 forwards and 6 D?

"I would warn everybody to look at last year’s training camp and look at the lines when we started," he said. "I’m not 100% sold on anything. This is certainly just the beginning." - David Quinn literally today.

This applies to both the forwards and the D so getting pissed over who starts camp together is really wasted energy. If this holds up a month into the season and he's just dead set at sticking with Lines/Combos that don't work, yeah then get all up in arms, I'll join you.

Your constant nitpicking at Kreider is also weird. Why is 30 goals such a treasured milestone that needs to be hit? In 3 of his last 4 seasons hes had 28(in 75 games), 28(in 79) and 24 (in 63 games) so hes either paced at or above it. As long as he keeps doing all the other things that make him effective, I'll live with him not potting those extra 2 goals a year.

I don't know what analytics he was looking at either, but their defensive numbers DID improve as the season went on and it wasn't just goaltending driven at ES. The PK? No that was Igor, the PK by in large still sucked ass, but the defense went from being worst in the league to being just bad. In close situations (When the game is tied or within 1), they were actually slightly ABOVE average over the last 20+ games.

Great? No. Better than they were the previous 40 games? Definitely. It seems like it was a long time ago (because it was) and the bubble performance made it easy to forget, but this group was actually playing some pretty good hockey between the new year and the pause.

I know those 40+ shot against games leading into the pause seemed like a nightly occurrence, but most of those occurred in games that they were leading and eventually ended up winning by 3+ goals. If an opponent wants to throw bad angle shots on net that have almost no chance of going in when they're losing by 5, they're more than welcome to do that to their hearts content.

 

[bl02]

As much as right now on paper the defense doesn’t look much better than last season having a goalie from the start of the season should help get the puck out of the zone a bit more efficiently.

 

[NYSPORTS]

IN MOST CASES I'd agree 100%.

Detroit Red Wings already look bigger, meaner thanks to Marc Staal

In case you miss him

 

[bl02]

Detroit Red Wings already look bigger, meaner thanks to Marc Staal

In case you miss him

Well Shatty I wasn’t shocked had a decent season playing on an all star team but if Marc Staal has a good year I’m gonna be a bit flabbergasted lol

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Detroit Red Wings already look bigger, meaner thanks to Marc Staal

In case you miss him

Meaner?

How f***ing soft are the wings?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Also Vince's article earlier wasn't really clear on DQ's comments about the D and PK. The Analytics that Quinn referenced stated that they were top 10 in most defensive categories over the last 20-30 games (The ones I've seen suggest that they weren't quite that good, but a NHL coach having access to shit that I don't would be the least surprising thing ever) but he acknowledges that the PK sucked so he gets 10 points for seeing thing how they were.

 

[Levitate]

A few observations since I was busy most of the day preparing for the dreaded return of the 5 day work week:

-I hope Quinn and Martin aren't so stubborn with the D pairings and basically this is how they start and rookies can work their way up. Having two of your three pairs as either all RHD or all LHD is not a longterm recipe for success.

-I wasn't happy with Smith/Johnson being announced. If that's your plan for most of the season, I would start updating your resume. That is in fact the worst third pair in the NHL. I'm not the biggest Quinn fan anymore (first year I thought he was fine, last year he rubbed me the wrong way in the play-ins by how unprepared the team was) but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for one more season. If he's going to be stubborn with this pair I'd rather give the bench to Martin lol.

Eh it's just what they're going to start out with, I'd honestly be kinda surprised if they make it to season start with all the lines/pairs intact with how they start. Just wouldn't get too up in arms yet

-Kreider: I saw some people commenting on how he looks great etc. He's paid very well to be a hockey player not a stuntman or an MCU superhero. He can be Mr. Atlas for all I care but is it going to help him score 30 goals? This season he won't hit 30 because it's shortened but pro-rated, anything less than 20 is not acceptable. When he hits 15-16 and disappears for games at a time, I don't want to hear the excuses about hit leadership etc. He's at the age now where potential is up and it's time for production.

He is what he is at this point. He can produce quite well but he's not an all star level offensive talent. He facilitates a lot of stuff that doesnt' show up on the score sheet but he's going to be inconsistent with his scoring to some extent. That's what he is, expecting anything else at this point is unrealistic. He'll likely clock in around what he normally has in the past in terms of pro-rated points and goals.

Overall it's very early and not much information/scrimmages, I just want to see progress and not so much stone age boneheadedness from this coach. Can this team be more prepared? Can the PK and D structure improve? Will he utilize 12 forwards and 6 D?

Hopefully Martin improves the PK and D structure, that's what he's brought in for. Yeah Quinn is kind of on the "hot seat" to some extent in that we need to see some improvements in the teams overall structure and play

 

[Levitate]

damn I can't believe camp is about to start and we're about to get NHL hockey again, with the 1st overall pick making his debute and a hopefully improved 2nd overall from last year, new starting goalie, exciting kids to watch...

Feel like this season is just a nice bit of "whatever happens happens". Rangers can get a look at some young players, get some experience for others, identify spots to improve and then when dead cap space comes off the books hopefully they can make some moves this offseason to go into next year really ready to gear up to be a contender. If they make the playoffs this year, awesome, if not, good learning experience and year to identify targets without feeling pressure to perform in an odd season

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

"I would warn everybody to look at last year’s training camp and look at the lines when we started," he said. "I’m not 100% sold on anything. This is certainly just the beginning." - David Quinn literally today.

This applies to both the forwards and the D so getting pissed over who starts camp together is really wasted energy. If this holds up a month into the season and he's just dead set at sticking with Lines/Combos that don't work, yeah then get all up in arms, I'll join you.

Your constant nitpicking at Kreider is also weird. Why is 30 goals such a treasured milestone that needs to be hit? In 3 of his last 4 seasons hes had 28(in 75 games), 28(in 79) and 24 (in 63 games) so hes either paced at or above it. As long as he keeps doing all the other things that make him effective, I'll live with him not potting those extra 2 goals a year.

I don't know what analytics he was looking at either, but their defensive numbers DID improve as the season went on and it wasn't just goaltending driven at ES. The PK? No that was Igor, the PK by in large still sucked ass, but the defense went from being worst in the league to being just bad. In close situations (When the game is tied or within 1), they were actually slightly ABOVE average over the last 20+ games.

Great? No. Better than they were the previous 40 games? Definitely. It seems like it was a long time ago (because it was) and the bubble performance made it easy to forget, but this group was actually playing some pretty good hockey between the new year and the pause.

I know those 40+ shot against games leading into the pause seemed like a nightly occurrence, but most of those occurred in games that they were leading and eventually ended up winning by 3+ goals. If an opponent wants to throw bad angle shots on net that have almost no chance of going in when they're losing by 5, they're more than welcome to do that to their hearts content.

I do constantly nitpick Kreider and I actually like the guy. It's just every year is the same old story with him disappearing for games or weeks at a time. He goes from being the most dominant player on the ice to the Have. You. Seen. Chris. Larry Brooks writes about it all the time. You can't have a captain like that, he's paid well now. And this isn't 1985 the "experience" and the veteran stuff doesn't mean as much. It's nice that he helps kids workout but can he have a complete season?

He doesn't even have to be the dominant driver anymore he has a lot of help. He reminds me so much of watching Kovalev as a kid or what my Uncles told me about Duguay how at times they'd be the best player on the ice, but never can consistently put it together.


I'm not mad at Quinn for starting Johnson/Smith it's just gross IMHO. We know they suck. The league knows they suck. The beat writers know they suck.

From my previous posts I've actually been positive about Johnson. I think he can have a Steve Emminger type impact on this team if he plays his role. Smith is just terrible though. He's not going to all of a sudden figure it out after 3 seasons and trade deadline here of playing like an idiot. Red Wings fans thought he was terrible. He's had exactly two good stints here, the one with AV after the trade deadline, and last year as Trouba's partner after the trade deadline. But he reverted back to his usual self in the play-ins.

 

[Mikos87]

Question: Is Jacques Martin known for mentoring individual young players and rounding out their games? Or he is more about creating a D structure that minimizes everyone's faults? I ask, because if he's more the system guy, then it may flip Miller's development on its head. They may feel comfortable letting him play in the NHL if they can sufficiently cover up his weaknesses. But that would mean he'd be learning and rounding out his game in the NHL and I'd guess that may take considerable time and effort. Whereas having him learn in the A at a slower pace and under Murphy might be more about his development as a player vs creating a system to hide weaknesses.

If you build a system around one player, it's going to be the goalie, and even then it's more of your end-zone covereage and breakouts (puck-handler/non-puckhandler), goalie with good side to side mobility versus not. Otherwise they wouldn't build a system around one player. I think that the other aspects of the job you described are just inherent in its nature. Hockey Ops isn't akin to the operations of a monolithic corporation.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I thought it was a Billy Squier thing...

Lonely Is The Night, they say.

 

[One Winged Angel]

How will DeAngelo be able to handle receiving passes in the defensive zone?

Played left side in Sarnia.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Miller - he’s going into his 5th season playing the defense position. You can’t take too much from last year at Wisconsin, that team was bad and underachieved massively, considering the talent they had. I still don’t expect him to make the team out of camp unless he knocks Quinn’s socks off.

Re: TDA - probably the best move to have him move to the left side, considering he played it in junior. With that said I would have liked to have seen how Trouba fared there, being that TDA is the only NYR defenseman since Leetch to break the 50 point mark and of that pairing, he is the worse of the two defensively. I understand the decision, but I’d like to see how it works the other way around.

 

[Tob]

I'm so ready to be upset about the pairings already. I've missed this.

 

[Levitate]

I do constantly nitpick Kreider and I actually like the guy. It's just every year is the same old story with him disappearing for games or weeks at a time. He goes from being the most dominant player on the ice to the Have. You. Seen. Chris. Larry Brooks writes about it all the time. You can't have a captain like that, he's paid well now. And this isn't 1985 the "experience" and the veteran stuff doesn't mean as much. It's nice that he helps kids workout but can he have a complete season?

He doesn't even have to be the dominant driver anymore he has a lot of help. He reminds me so much of watching Kovalev as a kid or what my Uncles told me about Duguay how at times they'd be the best player on the ice, but never can consistently put it together.

Again, I just think that's what he is though. It's not lack of effort or he's "lazy" or there's something wrong with him exactly, it's just that most players in the NHL are pretty streaky and inconsistent unless they're super stars (and even then the scoring can come in bunches). Kreider isn't an "energizer bunny" player so when things aren't coming easy for him he's not going to be showing "effort" by racing all over the ice and hitting people. It's just what he is, it's what most players who score in that range are, the physical talents don't matter with that kind of stuff.
Also not trying to say he should be captain or something. He seems like he's a great mentor and role model for the younger players off ice, I dunno if that translates into a captains role though, they are somewhat different things.

I'm not mad at Quinn for starting Johnson/Smith it's just gross IMHO. We know they suck. The league knows they suck. The beat writers know they suck.

I think Rick Carp pointed out that this seems to be more of an early attempt to keep Smith/Johnson out of the top LD spot more than form some kind of third pairing they love. I think we'd all be more frustrated if it was a Johnson/Trouba pairing. The coaching staff doesn't want that, they gotta try some things, and it means those guys playing as "third pair" to start.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

I’m open minded, but that Left Defense really frightens me, especially playing in a division with so much offensive talent.