GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[WTFMAN99]

I think Dreger might be working in Toronto's favor with this stuff, it doesn't portray a desperate team.

 

[rumman]

Dreger reporting on FirstUp that Leafs would like to extend Marner rather than trade him.

This is actually good news.

Leafs are their iwn worst enemy, they can run it back, but I won’t be watching…….again……..

I think Dreger might be working in Toronto's favor with this stuff, it doesn't portray a desperate team.

This is all cloak and dagger BS, teams need offense, if they want Marner, they’ll make a offer they don’t need to be deluded into thinking he might be off the market for a trade to happen imo………

 

[Fogelhund]

Leafs are their iwn worst enemy, they can run it back, but I won’t be watching…….again……..

Yes, we can see you've totally abandoned the team... despite posting here about them 10-15 times a day. And, you'll be watching, again....

 

[mydnyte]

20mil might look like a lot this off season but they need another starter, three Dmen(at least one of them should be top pairing), and three forwards of which at least two of them plays in the top 6.
That’s an average of under 3 mil per player.

When it comes to JT and his 11mil. Knies, McCabe and Woll will need new deals. Plus if MM stays, then his cap hit will increase.

Look at the Panthers and how they are built, you can’t have a balanced and talented team with three 11mil plus forwards.

you cannot compare the way they are built ...you cant compare the way any team is built ...they signed core players to contracts a long time ago, and 3-4 years ago, Florida would have needed to retain 50% to trade Bobrovsky and people wanted him bought out. Barkov signed ages ago, they got Tkachuck pretty cheap all things considered because they are a no tax state and he picked them as where he wanted to play, and he hasnt been a factor in these playoffs really either.

Teams that win are usually just more 'lucky' than the other team with one situation or another, either in matchups, or injuries, or a 2 min minor instead of 5 and a game for a blatant knee.
Avs Drated McKinnon, and then still tanked for a few seasons afterwards and lucked out on Makar, we got Matthews, and made the playoffs every year after, had we had 2-3 more top 5 picks, we'd be a Dynasty team.

 

[mydnyte]

Dreger reporting on FirstUp that Leafs would like to extend Marner rather than trade him.

This is actually good news.

it is actually... After Matthews and JT (less so last year since Domi was able to step in at #2C) Marner is the most critical forward we have and would be the most missed player on the roster.
We lost our #1D, or #1G, no big deal, we fill the hole and move on and keep winning, but, if we lose our #1-2 C we have nobody to step up, and Marner IS our best 200 foot player, his defensive game is better than Matthews, he is the PP QB, and the goto guy on the PK, when he is out, he is irreplaceable.

The new coach deserves a chance to see what 'extra' he can get out of Marner, and if then he doesnt like what he sees, we consider a move.

 

[pspot]

Berube accepted this job to coach top players, that includes Marner in my opinion.

Give him a year with Marner isn't a bad thing.

They'll shuffle the chairs again next year and then Tavares expiring will be the actual step forward to balancing the roster....hopefully

 

[Torontonian]

Key player has been Bobrovsky, and then Barkov.

If Bobrovsky isn't lights out they go nowhere, like what happened last year when he left his peak streak, and got steamrolled by the VGK.

Tkachuk has 1 point last 5 games.
Verhaeghe 1 point last 5 games.

Bobrovsky is their MVP 2 years running.

Goaltender will always be your most important player come playoff time, funny he was looking like a awful signing at the start, but then these past 2 years he's been their best signing.

Didn’t the leafs fit into that group this year?

Nylander, Bertuzzi, and Domi add up to 15.5 and McCabe and Liljegren add up to 3.4.

3 of their top 6 forwards and 2 of their top 4 defenders for 18.9 million.

I mean, comparing apples to oranges, Lillypad shouldn't even be in the conversation, as well as Bert and Domi don't compare to what Verhagage~ and Bennett have brought to the panthers.

37mil is still 10mil less than the Leafs tied up with 4 players. Plus Panthers combination is 2 forwards, 1D and 1 G instead of 4 Forwards.

We can discuss Panthers model is not sustainable all days but the fact that their top four players cost 10mil less than ours and not just on forwards is miles better than how we spend with the Cap.

Those 10mil diff can be spend on 2 Dmen or 2 forwards or a goalie and a forward… that’s two 5 million players. Plus the 1.7mil saving can add toward the 3rd player with cap hit of 850k. That’s a 2.5mil player.

That’s 3 players instead of three 850k players on the Leafs.

For the 2024-2025 season yes. But Toronto ran 40m in the corefore this season. Which is equivalent to one 3rd line player? (In FLA case it would be difference between having Rodriges and not). All I am saying is FLA model isn't exactly sustainable being able to get cast away's playing above their salary cap.

It's all fine and dandy to spread the wealth around to other parts of the team, and they need to do it now, but you need to have good players to spend it on as well. Apart from this free agent crop this year, there hasn't been many option d-wise apart from Petroangelo.

 

[Amadeus]

Berube accepted this job to coach top players, that includes Marner in my opinion.

Give him a year with Marner isn't a bad thing.

They'll shuffle the chairs again next year and then Tavares expiring will be the actual step forward to balancing the roster....hopefully

Marner's game just doesn't translate in the playoffs when time and space is taken away. He doesn't handle physicality really well. He doesn't even attempt going to the front of the net.

I'd rather not pay a guy 11+ million with a task of simply shutting down the opposition's best player, who ended up scoring in OT for the series winner anyway.

It's time to move on for the good of good parties here.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Marner's game just doesn't translate in the playoffs when time and space is taken away. He doesn't handle physicality really well. He doesn't even attempt going to the front of the net.

I'd rather not pay a guy 11+ million with a task of simply shutting down the opposition's best player, who ended up scoring in OT for the series winner anyway.

It's time to move on for the good of good parties here.

They also tried him at the bumper spot and he wasn't able to adapt, him and Rielly on the point of a power play is a gigantic weakness, no point shot threat.

I did think his best spot would have been left side half wall as a right shot but they didn't do it and we've kind of run out of him on this top heavy salary experiment. At least with this specific group of players, it does not work.

 

[OVO16]

Treliving has said multiple times since being here that "Talented players are extremely hard to come by. This team already has that talent and thats a huge plus for me"

So getting marner extended really comes as no surprise to me. Its clear he doesnt see any value in trading young skilled players.

I think its clear Treliving really wanted to change the culture and expectations of the star players on this team by hiring someone like Berube to really bring a side out that hasnt been brought out yet.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[Brobust]

Berube accepted this job to coach top players, that includes Marner in my opinion.

Give him a year with Marner isn't a bad thing.

They'll shuffle the chairs again next year and then Tavares expiring will be the actual step forward to balancing the roster....hopefully

Not to mention they already have enough cap space this season to add another impact player. They can be a significantly better team without changes.

 

[Zero1]

Dreger reporting on FirstUp that Leafs would like to extend Marner rather than trade him.

This is actually good news.

Well he’s getting at least $12 mill AAV because he won’t take less than Nylander.

Matthews? Overpaid. Nylander? Overpaid. Marner? Overpaid.

Overpaying 3 underperforming playoff performers didn’t work so what do the Leafs do? Pay them even more.

What changes are being made here?

Please fire Shanny and bring in an actual President that isn’t scared to do their job.

 

[Skullz]

I could live with an extended Marner, if it does not come higher than what Nylander got. With 91 coming off the books and the cap rising, it will likely age well.

However, that would only be if there is no trade to be made.

 

[ULF_55]

Goaltender will always be your most important player come playoff time, funny he was looking like a awful signing at the start, but then these past 2 years he's been their best signing.

If you mean a bad goaltender can undermine everyone else I agree.

But assuming the goaltender isn't crap, he may or may not be the key piece to win. Example Vegas, Colorado, Pittsburgh are examples where all they needed was a goaltender who didn't lose the series.

Most important player should get the Conn Smythe right?

Of course Tampa rode Vasilevskiy, like Panthers are riding Bobrovsky.

 

[Gabriel426]

On the bold... just no.

Since coming into the league Marner is 10th in points, Tavares is 19th. Marchessault is 38th, Toffoli is 81st.

If you want to go even strength Marner is 11th, Tavares is 18th. Marchessault 26th, and Toffoli is well back of them.

I like both players and would be happy to sign either, but they are not better than Marner or Tavares, especially in the regular season.

My point is currently based on last season, Marchessualt and Toffoli are better players than MM and JT.
I failed to see how Marchessault and Toffoli won't do better than MM and JT on the Leafs, esp in the playoffs. Both had a bad playoffs and still scored more goals than MM and JT.

 

[Torontonian]

Marner's game just doesn't translate in the playoffs when time and space is taken away. He doesn't handle physicality really well. He doesn't even attempt going to the front of the net.

I'd rather not pay a guy 11+ million with a task of simply shutting down the opposition's best player, who ended up scoring in OT for the series winner anyway.

It's time to move on for the good of good parties here.

The criticism is fair, but another small skilled type winger in Patrick Kane was able to make it work in the playoffs.

My bigger issue with Marner is he hasn't added a different element to his game, if he worked on his shot and was more of a threat 5 on 5 and on the powerplay it would open up more possibilities for him. He's too predictable to read.

 

[Gabriel426]

you cannot compare the way they are built ...you cant compare the way any team is built ...they signed core players to contracts a long time ago, and 3-4 years ago, Florida would have needed to retain 50% to trade Bobrovsky and people wanted him bought out. Barkov signed ages ago, they got Tkachuck pretty cheap all things considered because they are a no tax state and he picked them as where he wanted to play, and he hasnt been a factor in these playoffs really either.

Teams that win are usually just more 'lucky' than the other team with one situation or another, either in matchups, or injuries, or a 2 min minor instead of 5 and a game for a blatant knee.
Avs Drated McKinnon, and then still tanked for a few seasons afterwards and lucked out on Makar, we got Matthews, and made the playoffs every year after, had we had 2-3 more top 5 picks, we'd be a Dynasty team.

It is not comparing how teams are built but rather learn how they are built.

I agree that luck is involve on teams winning the Cup but based on last playoffs, Leafs need a lot of luck in order to win a few rounds. You can't count on being lucky to make it to the SCF. However, you have to start building bits by bits toward being a true contender. It is not one piece and boom, you are a contender. Lets say JT and Bob switched team, I still doubt the Leafs can make it to the SCF, b/c there are still too many holes in the lineup, such as lack of scoring from the top guys, and bad special teams. But if Bob switched team with Nurse, Oilers probably be winning the Cup, bc they have less holes to fill.

The team had no success with the Core 5 for the past 6 yrs. And not like these Core 5 were lighting it up in the playoffs either. What's the basis of them having success in the future?

I asked this question before, and going to ask again. if any other teams switched rosters with the Leafs and both players and team had the same regular season and playoffs records/stats, would you still think that team is a contender, that they are close, and they are right there if only they get a few better bounces?

 

[JKG33]

The clownshow will continue until morale improves. What a stupid move re-signing him would be. Fool me 8 times shame on you...

 

[Gabriel426]

For the 2024-2025 season yes. But Toronto ran 40m in the corefore this season. Which is equivalent to one 3rd line player? (In FLA case it would be difference between having Rodriges and not). All I am saying is FLA model isn't exactly sustainable being able to get cast away's playing above their salary cap.

It's all fine and dandy to spread the wealth around to other parts of the team, and they need to do it now, but you need to have good players to spend it on as well. Apart from this free agent crop this year, there hasn't been many option d-wise apart from Petroangelo.

With the Cap, there is no sustainable way to keep a team together, thats the nature of the league. But it doesn't mean you just build your team on hope.

Even with the 40mil for this year, and only a Rodriges. Pathers 37mil still spread to 2 Forwards, 1 D and 1 G, and Leafs is 3 forwards and 1 D, getting Reilly instead of Willie. If thats didn't work. How's it going to work in the future. JT coming off but with Willie will be making more than JT and AM making more in his next contract. Thus it will still be 43mil instead of 40mil and still be 3 forwards and 1D.

The thing is that value contract comes in different shape and size, even a 11.5mil contract can be consider a value contract if the player produces like a 14mil player. It is just that not only do Leafs can't have good depth due to cap, their top guys are not producing their cap in playoffs too.

 

[Dreakmur]

I mean, comparing apples to oranges, Lillypad shouldn't even be in the conversation, as well as Bert and Domi don't compare to what Verhagage~ and Bennett have brought to the panthers.

That’s who played in those roles. I agree Florida’s counterparts are far superior, but the OP didn’t specify they had to be good in their roles.

 

[ULF_55]

yup. lets just keep running it back

They've already made their most important move ... coaching.

Then:

• goaltending
• couple defenders
• ELSC players

 

[ULF_55]

it is actually... After Matthews and JT (less so last year since Domi was able to step in at #2C) Marner is the most critical forward we have and would be the most missed player on the roster.
We lost our #1D, or #1G, no big deal, we fill the hole and move on and keep winning, but, if we lose our #1-2 C we have nobody to step up, and Marner IS our best 200 foot player, his defensive game is better than Matthews, he is the PP QB, and the goto guy on the PK, when he is out, he is irreplaceable.

The new coach deserves a chance to see what 'extra' he can get out of Marner, and if then he doesnt like what he sees, we consider a move.

Bolded is not a positive though is it?

 

[Sypher04]

it is actually... After Matthews and JT (less so last year since Domi was able to step in at #2C) Marner is the most critical forward we have and would be the most missed player on the roster.
We lost our #1D, or #1G, no big deal, we fill the hole and move on and keep winning, but, if we lose our #1-2 C we have nobody to step up, and Marner IS our best 200 foot player, his defensive game is better than Matthews, he is the PP QB, and the goto guy on the PK, when he is out, he is irreplaceable.

The new coach deserves a chance to see what 'extra' he can get out of Marner, and if then he doesnt like what he sees, we consider a move.

I agree with his importance, particular due to how we’ve been built but firmly disagree on your assertions that he’s better than Matthews defensively, because he is not - very good in his own right however. While I’m not against Berube having some time with Mitch in theory, I don’t think it’s by any means required. There’s an argument that projected salary alone dictates we need to move him regardless.

 

[nuck]

Not to mention they already have enough cap space this season to add another impact player. They can be a significantly better team without changes.

If Willie ate up the cap increase and Austin grabbed $2M more where would you see the space coming from? If we assume Sammy's salary will cover the next goalie and Brodie's salary goes to Roy or Tanev or Walker then would that be Domi and Bert's $8.5M for the impact player? They could not afford to keep Boosh or Edmundson then and they probably need at least one of that type for something north of $2.5M.

I don't see the space unless they deal Kampf and Jarnkrok and then fill their minutes with McMann and Holmberg. I don't think they have an internal replacement for Domi and I don't know who the external replacement would be that comes in at the same cost. Who goes and how much do you see as free?