GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Kiwi]

Who said they're going back to that?

So the team is full of wimps who fold come playoff time but let's continue?

Either there choking dogs and the core guys need to go making us worse or we continue to tweak this lot

Pick one. You don't get both

 

[LaPlante94]

The cap will be over 90M after next season and last I looked we had about 20M to spend now and at least that amount next season

Our RFA'S shouldn't be prohibitively expensive to resign and we have a bunch of ECL'S coming to like Cowan Grebyonkin, Hildeby, Niemela, Minten and maybe even this seasons 1st rounder

So the cap stuff pointless bull

If you want Marner gone because he doesn't perform at playoff time just man up and say it instead of this other pointless rubbish

Again though, just more money to spend on the defence and depth scoring. You know, the 2 main issues people complain about on here when we fail in the playoffs. The top heavy lineup strategy failed. Pretty much all our current free cap space will go to upgrading the defence and possibly Domi and Bertuzzi if they aren't asking for too much term.

Our RFA's could be making around 3-4 mil the way contracts are now just getting to 30-40 points. If they all click and we're winning then I don't see why we wouldn't try and sign them to that with some term.

I've said it multiple times and I'll say it again. He makes 11 million dollars and ghosts when we need him most. He was overpaid when he was given that contract out of an ELC and he'll get overpaid again. Doesn't change the fact he's the only one in the core who isn't locked up long term yet and his value is higher than Tavares so breaking up this core makes him the odd man out. Pretty simple to understand so I still don't know why you think he's a scapegoat.

 

[Brobust]

100% but they just signed 34 and 88 and Marner is a pending UFA. If they have decided that they have seen enough to tell them a change is needed, Marner is the odd man out. I'd have no problem bringing Marner back but not a chance in hell at the numbers he is looking at when 34 and 88 are already getting $24.75m between them. Been there, done that. Time to move on.

Why isn't JT considered in this situation? Most overpaid and only year left.

 

[Kiwi]

Again though, just more money to spend on the defence and depth scoring. You know, the 2 main issues people complain about on here when we fail in the playoffs. The top heavy lineup strategy failed. Pretty much all our current free cap space will go to upgrading the defence and possibly Domi and Bertuzzi if they aren't asking for too much term.

Our RFA's could be making around 3-4 mil the way contracts are now just getting to 30-40 points. If they all click and we're winning then I don't see why we wouldn't try and sign them to that with some term.

I've said it multiple times and I'll say it again. He makes 11 million dollars and ghosts when we need him most. He was overpaid when he was given that contract out of an ELC and he'll get overpaid again. Doesn't change the fact he's the only one in the core who isn't locked up long term yet and his value is higher than Tavares so breaking up this core makes him the odd man out. Pretty simple to understand so I still don't know why you think he's a scapegoat.

How much money do you need? you have 20M now and at least another 20M next off-season without Marner getting traded

If that isn't enough to build with considering the young guys coming or already on the team you don't lack money to do anything

 

[rumman]

So the team is full of wimps who fold come playoff time but let's continue?

Either there choking dogs and the core guys need to go making us worse or we continue to tweak this lot

Pick one. You don't get both

You can’t say that’s a certainty, just like you can’t say the cap will continue to go up. Why not say these are my opinions because they’re not facts……..

 

[Kiwi]

not the worst proposal I've read here, losing Marner AND Reilly along with not resigning JT would definitely change the culture and free up dollars to fix the team proper.........


pure speculation, the cap will go up when the cap goes up............

Pure speculation? Unless a once in a century illness rolls through the world population again I'm pretty confident predicting that

You can’t say that’s a certainty, just like you can’t say the cap will continue to go up. Why not say these are my opinions because they’re not facts……..

Great, so your opinion of Marner isn't a certainty and he will blow the doors off next post season then?

Cool. Let's keep him then

 

[Gabriel426]

I remember the good old days when you couldn't win with 4 forwards taking to much of the cap

Now I've noticed it's migrated to 3 highly paid forwards?

Can someone tell me when we've actually tried having only 3 highly paid forwards because over the last half a decade we've tried it with 4 of them not 3

In fact we haven't even tried 3 yet so I'd like to know why everybody is certain it just won't work? Or is it just Marner is a p***y and has to go because obviously somebody needs to be scapegoated?

I mean we have 20M to spend this off-season, Tavares is gone next off-season and we have guys like Cowan, Grebyonkin, Minten, Hildeby and Niemela coming to join the likes of Knies, McMann, Holmberg and Robertson who are young and cheap

That doesn't look that bad to me if you are looking to build a deep team who doesn't rely on its stars as much

20mil might look like a lot this off season but they need another starter, three Dmen(at least one of them should be top pairing), and three forwards of which at least two of them plays in the top 6.
That’s an average of under 3 mil per player.

When it comes to JT and his 11mil. Knies, McCabe and Woll will need new deals. Plus if MM stays, then his cap hit will increase.

Look at the Panthers and how they are built, you can’t have a balanced and talented team with three 11mil plus forwards.

 

[Legion34]

I'm not sure how this argument is supportive of the Leafs to keep Marner.

Tkachuk is about to win a cup. What does it matter what he did in his 27 playoff games? What has Marner done in 8 years? What have the Leafs done?

Tkachuk and Eichel are incredible. We haven't made a single notable roster change.

not the worst proposal I've read here, losing Marner AND Reilly along with not resigning JT would definitely change the culture and free up dollars to fix the team proper.........


pure speculation, the cap will go up when the cap goes up............

Hasn’t it been agreed to though?

I think the hrr was already supportive of that but that cap can only go up 5% for the next 2 years under the mou

 

[Jozay]

So the team is full of wimps who fold come playoff time but let's continue?

Either there choking dogs and the core guys need to go making us worse or we continue to tweak this lot

Pick one. You don't get both

Its possible for them to trade from the core and get better.

 

[ToneDog]

If the only problem was that we couldn't afford depth, you'd have a great point. Not only do those contracts impact our depth, but they also don't play well int he play-offs.

If he could be our Phil Kessel, at the right AAV I would buy it but at one of the top AAVs in the league for his playoff shortcoming, not for me. At $8m, maybe, at $12.5m it would be insanity IMO (O'Dog agreed).

 

[ToneDog]

Why isn't JT considered in this situation? Most overpaid and only year left.

100% agreed. Difference is you need to sweeten to move Tavares and Tavares is not asking for $100m on his next deal. Most likely better to eat that last year than give up a good asset to move him IMO.

 

[Brobust]

100% agreed. Difference is you need to sweeten to move Tavares and Tavares is not asking for $100m on his next deal. Most likely better to eat that last year than give up a good asset to move him IMO.

No you don't. He's a 70 point center with a $1M salary.

 

[ToneDog]

No you don't. He's a 70 point center with a $1M salary.

His PP points prop up his numbers. I doubt he puts up 50 points if they take him off PP1.

How much Leafs retain will also impact what you get back for him, if much. Also what will a #2C cost you? The difference is not that much after you retain.

I also doubt they would ask a guy who came here as a highly touted UFA, is your captain and has his stature in the league. It is why I don't ever bother suggesting they dump Tavares.

 

[Captain Crunch]

A team like Vegas cares about the cap hit a lot more than the cash.

Yes, that is true as well.

 

[Kiwi]

20mil might look like a lot this off season but they need another starter, three Dmen(at least one of them should be top pairing), and three forwards of which at least two of them plays in the top 6.
That’s an average of under 3 mil per player.

When it comes to JT and his 11mil. Knies, McCabe and Woll will need new deals. Plus if MM stays, then his cap hit will increase.

Look at the Panthers and how they are built, you can’t have a balanced and talented team with three 11mil plus forwards.

We need a center, 2 Dmen and a goaltender and we can trade out the likes of Robertson, Jarnkrok, Kampf and reeves to create more cap room

It's easier doable

There projecting us for about 55M on the books season after next with another cap rise

It isn't 11M it's more like 35M with those RFA'S to sign

Its possible for them to trade from the core and get better.

Is it? Are Matthews and Nylander going to be better somehow?

I remember Kadri being traded as addition by subtraction, not great if we're being honest

 

[Jozay]

Is it? Are Matthews and Nylander going to be better somehow?

I remember Kadri being traded as addition by subtraction, not great if we're being honest

Who knows. What we do know is that the current core isnt good enough.

 

[Dreakmur]

Is it? Are Matthews and Nylander going to be better somehow?

Most of my argument for needing to drop one of Nylander or Marner is based around the law of diminishing returns. By both being here, they both diminish each other. Remove one and the remaining one gets better.

 

[ULF_55]

I remember Kadri being traded as addition by subtraction, not great if we're being honest

They could use Kadri's 1.5 playoff games per year.

 

[Kiwi]

They could use Kadri's 1.5 playoff games per year.

Man won a cup ULF and it was more we got jack **** for him that grates on me

Nothing for a 60 point 2nd line center, Buffalo got Byram for that player

Most of my argument for needing to drop one of Nylander or Marner is based around the law of diminishing returns. By both being here, they both diminish each other. Remove one and the remaining one gets better.

Seems pretty questionable to me when teams can concentrate on one of them now rather than both

 

[LaPlante94]

How much money do you need? you have 20M now and at least another 20M next off-season without Marner getting traded

If that isn't enough to build with considering the young guys coming or already on the team you don't lack money to do anything

We don't need to spend every penny of the cap. Would help at the TDL if we needed to make moves to have some cap. 20 mil isn't a lot when to fill out our biggest needs on defence it'll probably cost us anywhere from 10-15 mil if we are after 2 of them. Considering Niemela is pretty much the only D prospect we have to look forward to in the next 2 years I'd say we're looking for 2 defenders. One to play with Rielly and another to play with Lili who we have to give a new contract to, so you can say that 20 mil would be gone between those 3 contracts. The cap raising next season just covers Nylanders new contract pretty much too. Then the season after next season when Tavares contract is up we'll most likely bring back Tavares at a cheaper cost and then Knies new contract would kick in, Holmbergs new contract if we bring him back, Robertson if we keep him, Wolls new contract, idk if McCabe will come back but if he does it's probably gonna cost more than his current 2 million. All of these are gonna add up so all this free cap you say we'll too much of is not really that much when all these new contracts are gonna start at the same time.

 

[Kiwi]

Who knows. What we do know is that the current core isnt good enough.

Then we may as well turn the core over and try again because I doubt the other two are getting better at there age

 

[Kiwi]

We don't need to spend every penny of the cap. Would help at the TDL if we needed to make moves to have some cap. 20 mil isn't a lot when to fill out our biggest needs on defence it'll probably cost us anywhere from 10-15 mil if we are after 2 of them. Considering Niemela is pretty much the only D prospect we have to look forward to in the next 2 years I'd say we're looking for 2 defenders. One to play with Rielly and another to play with Lili who we have to give a new contract to, so you can say that 20 mil would be gone between those 3 contracts. The cap raising next season just covers Nylanders new contract pretty much too. Then the season after next season when Tavares contract is up we'll most likely bring back Tavares at a cheaper cost and then Knies new contract would kick in, Holmbergs new contract if we bring him back, Robertson if we keep him, Wolls new contract, idk if McCabe will come back but if he does it's probably gonna cost more than his current 2 million. All of these are gonna add up so all this free cap you say we'll too much of is not really that much when all these new contracts are gonna start at the same time.

The year after next isn't really an issue, we have about 35M before we start resigning guys and I doubt being at the front of the line with the UFA'S is going to go great for us either

That's where the mistakes are made, we use our money wisely we will be more than fine

 

[LaPlante94]

The year after next isn't really an issue, we have about 35M before we start resigning guys and I doubt being at the front of the line with the UFA'S is going to go great for us either

That's where the mistakes are made, we use our money wisely we will be more than fine

Using the money to make sure our prospects and defence is paid so the scoring is spread out better is using the money wisely. Paying 23 mil on 2 wingers isn't.

We don't know how much we'll have the year after next season yet. We'll probably have a better idea on that after this years Free Agency and we give out all those new contracts that will be on the books 2 seasons from now since we only have 8 players on the current roster signed after next season. We'll probably have around the same amount of cap as we do this offseason and Knies and Woll will probably be the bigger cap hits among most of the guys coming off their ELCs the next few years

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Most of my argument for needing to drop one of Nylander or Marner is based around the law of diminishing returns. By both being here, they both diminish each other. Remove one and the remaining one gets better.

You can't have more than 1 winger costing over $11M/year and expect to win regardless.

 

[Gabriel426]

We need a center, 2 Dmen and a goaltender and we can trade out the likes of Robertson, Jarnkrok, Kampf and reeves to create more cap room

It's easier doable

There projecting us for about 55M on the books season after next with another cap rise

It isn't 11M it's more like 35M with those RFA'S to sign

Easier said than done. As just having players on the team is a lot different than having good players on the team.

A C, 2Dmen and a Goalie will be just about 18mil. C will be 5-6mil, 2Dmen will be 4mil each and a goalie is 4mil. Robbie makes league minimum, so there is no saving in terms of cap. Calle, Kampf and Reeves make a combine of 5.7mil, replacing them with bargin or ELCs at 950k player will only save 2.7mil. Then you have to resign RFA like Lilly, but lets assume he takes the same cap.

Lets say we keep everyone and bring the band back without any signings in the forward but the 2C you mentioned and the Dmen.

Knies-AM-MM
McMann-2C(6mil)-Willie
Cowan-JT-3.7mil Winger(using the 2.7mil plus Robbie 950k)
Dewar-Holmberg-950k Winger

Reilly-4mil Dman
McCabe-4mil Dman
Beniot-Lilly
Timmins

Goalie(4mil)
Woll

Thats not a pretty bad lineup and if Cowan struggles, next man up will be Steeves.

IF they trade MM for just pure picks. They can add that 11mil to the lineup above like Marchessault and Domi. With left over money to add to D or the 3.7mil winger.

The lineup would be

Domi-AM-Marchessault
Knies-2C(5-6mil)-Willie
McMann-JT-Toffoli
Cowan-Holmberg-950k winger

Same D and same goalie.

Thats a much better Forward group than sticking with MM.