GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[baton elevated]

I think he gets moved.

Who cares, dime a dozen player

 

[nuck]

I'd argue it was just an alright off season for him. He kind of saved it for himself by getting Bert and Domi. He was hand tied with what he could do, but still... This will be the real summer he puts his stamp on the team.

Good signings:
Bert
Domi
Benoit

Not good signings:
Klingberg (understoodwhat he wanted to do but it didn't work out for anyone)
Reaves (didn't need him what so ever)
Kampf contract

I would have to put Willie well into the Not good zone. Everything about his year screamed a Gaudreau/Huberdeau type spike and yet they paid him like it was a 22 year old's break out year. It was like Dubas came back and took care of the negotiation for old times sake. Now if you are one who believes that either Mitch or Willie had to move for lineup balance then I guess he can correct it with a Marner deal but until that happens he wears goat horns. He can get another gold star if he can move Kampf.

 

[rumman]

i agree.
if you flipped Lily and Ferraro, Lily would prob have much better offensive numbers and look like a top pairing d-man because of the opportunity he would have with their lack of depth, and the disregard of poor play because the team sucks.
and if Ferraro was here playing in Lil's spot, he'd have worse offensive numbers, and likely be the whipping boy that Lil is now.

Lily is a better player than Ferraro, he's just been misused/abused by Keefe going back to the Marlies.

Is Ferraro scare of his shadow? If not I’d flip Lilly in a New York minute for anyone even close to a 4/5 D man………

Two things.

(1) I am not bringing excuses for failures. I am saying we won't know if Dubas would have had more success with his plan if the cap went up.

(2) It's not hard to imagine that this team may have had different results with Hyman, a top 4 D and a goalie that they could have fit in with $20M in additional cap space on top of the four. This MAY have been the plan that Covid messed up. Here is a quote from an article on the Athletic in October 2020.

"Toronto would be at the front of the line for Pietrangelo’s services, pushing the bidding sky high.

But with the cap potentially flat (or near flat) for years, giving a nearly 31-year-old free agent more than 10 percent of your cap space for seven years is a tough ask."

IF’s and BUT’s………….

 

[rumman]

""

Crickets in discussion is a good thing, Lilly needs to find his game on another team, I’m sure Berube won’t tolerate one of his D men being a cowardly lion……..

 

[Brobust]

Guys, Marner at $12M is a discount. They should jump on that deal if it's available.

 

[Apex Predator]

Guys, Marner at $12M is a discount. They should jump on that deal if it's available.

Okay Paul

 

[Dion TheFluff]

take it for what it's worth. Tough to say if Pagnotta actually has a credible sources.

 

[Gabriel426]

If Hronek gets traded before the draft, have to assume we're interested no? How big of a contract is he looking for?

8mil a season.
He is not a great defensive dman.
He got a big shot and a RHD

 

[rumman]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/report-maple-leafs-want-to-bring-max-domi-and-tyler-bertuzzi-back-but-team-is-nervous-of-term

The longest I’d go with them is 4 years to coincide with Matthews’ contract. Maybe 5 if it brings the AAV down so we can sign a big name defenseman.

I’m more concerned with salary than term, if Domi truly wants to be here he can sign for a team friendly salary and they can give him term. 3.5-3.75 for four-five years, no trade protection. I’d offer Bert a similar deal, let them shop themselves elsewhere if they’re after the big pay day……..

 

[rumman]

I can't see Tre being so stupid as to make the exact same mistake as last offseason as to take the available money that should be used to fix the D and give it to Bert and Domi. I have to assume that if they're seriously looking at bringing both back it signals some bigger changes are afoot.

Marner’s the change that’s going to allow them to start to fix the cap, but Tre needs to be wise with how he spends, lots of holes that need to be filled……..

 

[rumman]

Guys, Marner at $12M is a discount. They should jump on that deal if it's available.

Guy’s spending half your cap on four forwards hasn’t worked, won’t work, can never work………

 

[mydnyte]

Is Ferraro scare of his shadow? If not I’d flip Lilly in a New York minute for anyone even close to a 4/5 D man………

I dont understand what this means?
Lil is NOT a hitter, and he had 12 in 6 games, while the other non-hitter Rielly had 14 in 7 games and with much more ice time.
and as an FYI last year Lil average 1.69 hpg while Ferraro averaged 1.59 hpg
interesting side note, guess how many hits Domi was credited with?
5 thats FIVE hits in 7 games, Nylander had that many in 4 games
JT was 2nd on the team (to Benoit) with 35, matthews 27 in 5 games, even though the last 2 he wasnt 100% ...Marner had 6
interesting how pass first players have less hits, even a tough guy like Domi.
in hits per game Domi was last. ...is Domi scared of his shadow?

 

[rumman]

Okay Paul

I though Lambert was Paul?????

 

[notbias]

Crickets in discussion is a good thing, Lilly needs to find his game on another team, I’m sure Berube won’t tolerate one of his D men being a cowardly lion……..

Maybe we can get even more defensive defensemen this year and lose games 1-0 instead of 2-1.

 

[trellaine201]

I heard that Staios in Ottawa has been phoning GMs like mad. He's just itching to make a trade. I mean, ideally, I'd love a hockey trade between us and them for Mitch (so many pieces we can use in Ottawa like Chychrun, Chabot, Norris, Pinto, etc), but I know that's a long shot.

I'm wondering what Lily can get us from Ottawa? They're probably going to lose Chychrun. A cheap RD player, who may do better in another market, may be enticing to them.

2024 - 25th overall, or 39th overall?

Highly doubt they trade within the division including Marner in any trade PLUS Marner will decide where he plays next and when.

 

[rumman]

I dont understand what this means?
Lil is NOT a hitter, and he had 12 in 6 games, while the other non-hitter Rielly had 14 in 7 games and with much more ice time.
and as an FYI last year Lil average 1.69 hpg while Ferraro averaged 1.59 hpg
interesting side note, guess how many hits Domi was credited with?
5 thats FIVE hits in 7 games, Nylander had that many in 4 games
JT was 2nd on the team (to Benoit) with 35, matthews 27 in 5 games, even though the last 2 he wasnt 100% ...Marner had 6
interesting how pass first players have less hits, even a tough guy like Domi.
in hits per game Domi was last. ...is Domi scared of his shadow?

Did you watch the playoffs? Lilly cowers when opposing forwards forecheck, I wish it wasn’t the case but he’s had more than enough time to figure it out, maybe he learned from Brodie another D man who can’t stand physical contact……..

 

[conFABulator]

20M is a stretch, but even still, half of that would have been eaten up by re-signing the other half of our current team at increased rates, and keeping Hyman would have cost 6-7M. Other contenders would have been able to surplus add as well to varying degrees, and now the three amigos would be looking for an extra 10M.

Toronto could have, and should have, landed Petro flat cap or not.

These are fair points and I can't with any certainty say what the cap would have been. My math was simple and based on 5% increases per year from the Covid freeze. I think that would have us going into a cap next year or close to $100M...which is only $12M more than currently set. I don't think we can say that we overpaid our stars AND that we would have overpaid them MORE in a rising cap world, but maybe Dubas would have done that, who knows?

My larger points is that

(a) We would have more cap to work with each year if the cap continued to increase, and

(b) There would have been more disparity and gap between what top-spending teams and other teams were spending on players. The cap freeze leveled that playing field. I look forward to the Leafs spending more than at least half of the league again which has not been the case recently.

I said the same thing about Boston, but the difference there is obviously in net and on defense.
And you are right about Florida, especially with the dmen they were able to draft, as well as the goaltending they have gotten. Therein lies the difference when comparing us to them, basically a perfect blend of forwards, dmen, and goalies, whereas we have great regular season forwards but not so much in the playoffs, a patchwork of dmen although McCabe and Benoit have been pleasant surprises and Rielly although he did not have a good playoff this year, and a very good goalie in Woll but who can't stay healthy.

I agree this is why I am a big proponent of big changes to our cap distribution and team balance. i believe we should trade Marner and turn him into assets and cap space that are used on goalies and D. I would personally spend more on D this off-season and bring in a 1B that allows us to see what we have in Woll without all eggs in that basket. Then next year use the Tavares space and cap increase into to address remaining gaps on D, F and G if necessary

 

[Torontonian]

Guy’s spending half your cap on four forwards hasn’t worked, won’t work, can never work………

But what about spending 36m or so on 3 forwards only!

 

[conFABulator]

IF’s and BUT’s………….

When looking backwards that is all you have. IF the cap had continued to rise or IF we had allocated differently. No one can say for sure what would have happened.

With the benefit of hindsight I would say we would be in a much stronger position IF

(a) We kept Marleau for one more year and moved Kapanen and Johnson for assets (insert those assets + Wes Jarvis)

(b) Traded Marner and kept Hyman and added a goalie

(c) Signed Pietrangelo and not Tavares while keeping Kadri

We are a strong team, but that's a lot of IFs.

 

[Kiwi]

We need to find some cheap puck moving for the 2nd and 3rd pair if Liljegren is going

Defensively sound is good but if we can't get the puck to our forwards we're going to end up in the same situation as last playoffs

We also need to save some money, that 2nd goaltender and 3rd pair RD seem like positions we can fill without spending a ton of money

 

[Brobust]

Guy’s spending half your cap on four forwards hasn’t worked, won’t work, can never work………

We'll, it'll be approximately 40% on 3 forwards from 2025 onwards.

 

[Gabriel426]

These are fair points and I can't with any certainty say what the cap would have been. My math was simple and based on 5% increases per year from the Covid freeze. I think that would have us going into a cap next year or close to $100M...which is only $12M more than currently set. I don't think we can say that we overpaid our stars AND that we would have overpaid them MORE in a rising cap world, but maybe Dubas would have done that, who knows?

My larger points is that

(a) We would have more cap to work with each year if the cap continued to increase, and

(b) There would have been more disparity and gap between what top-spending teams and other teams were spending on players. The cap freeze leveled that playing field. I look forward to the Leafs spending more than at least half of the league again which has not been the case recently.


I agree this is why I am a big proponent of big changes to our cap distribution and team balance. i believe we should trade Marner and turn him into assets and cap space that are used on goalies and D. I would personally spend more on D this off-season and bring in a 1B that allows us to see what we have in Woll without all eggs in that basket. Then next year use the Tavares space and cap increase into to address remaining gaps on D, F and G if necessary

Every teams in the league will have the same cap increase, it is not a Leafs thing.
Not really sure how much did COVID truly affected the salary of players but I just can't see Makar and Pietra signing for 11mil if there was no COVID.

COVID or not, there are only THREE teams other than the Leafs who has or had two players over 10mil. Hawks and Kings due to rewarding their top guys for getting them Cups, while both players on Panthers signed for 10 and 10.5mil, both will be No. 4 and No. 5 highest salary on the Leafs.

Not saying COVID was not a factor but to say that COVID derailed Dubas's plan or it hurt the Leafs is an over statement, as the three contracts to AM, MM and JT were just bad gambles from Dubas and MGT.

 

[Kiwi]

When looking backwards that is all you have. IF the cap had continued to rise or IF we had allocated differently. No one can say for sure what would have happened.

With the benefit of hindsight I would say we would be in a much stronger position IF

(a) We kept Marleau for one more year and moved Kapanen and Johnson for assets (insert those assets + Wes Jarvis)

(b) Traded Marner and kept Hyman and added a goalie

(c) Signed Pietrangelo and not Tavares while keeping Kadri

We are a strong team, but that's a lot of IFs.

We were trying to win a cup, this board would have gone crazy if we just did nothing Instead

Hyman wasn't anywhere near as productive here as he was in Edmonton, but were trading a 100 point forward with selke votes to keep him Instead?

JT came on the market 3 or 4 years before Pietrangelo and Kadri may have still been here if he wasn't a ******* idiot getting himself suspended

This doesn't work unless you know how it all played out afterwards which is pretty pointless in retrospect

 

[stats1]

Friedman said today that Vegas will be around Marner talks. He specifically named Theodore and Logan Thompson. Theodore will need a new contract after next season but I’d do it. I wonder if Tre keeps it low key in free agency and lines up the cap to take a run at McDavid if he hits free agency

 

[Fogelhund]

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