GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[conFABulator]

Bold of you to put your blind faith into a rookie GM that'd shown absolutely nothing. I wouldn't trust Dubas to plan a trip to the grocery store

He had a plan, of course he had a plan. He would have had to present this plan to Shanny and he would have had to present it to the board. It's not "blind faith" to expect that an executive with a $80M budget would have to prepare and present a plan to a board. It's governance.

You can say it wasn't a good plan, but I don't think it is reasonable to suggest a plan didn't exist. Bell, Rogers and Tannenbaum don't work that way.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

""

I think he gets moved.

 

[conFABulator]

I found this article written about MLSE and how it was affected by Covid:

The point is that every big entertainment company is struggling. And the Maple Leafs organization, for all of the money they seem to have, are struggling just like everybody else.

Life everywhere in the world has been impacted by the pandemic. In Canada, somehow, you feel as if we’re a little bit more fortunate than our neighbor to the due South;

NHL hockey, but really all professional sports, has been disrupted by the pandemic.

MLSE CEO Michael Friisdahl noted, “These past nine months have been the most challenging we have ever experienced, and while we had hoped to see signs of a return to more normal business operations by now, the effects of the second wave of the pandemic have forced us to brace for further uncertainty.”


The article (again, this was written specifically about MLSE) did not say that the Leafs were affected more than any other NHL team, but these effects were felt league wide.

If you are able to find something that says the Leafs were affected the most by Covid, please feel free to share it, as I was not able to find anything.

Yes, they did lock up 4 key pieces, but they were all FORWARDS, and because of this imbalance in terms of being able to properly address the defense and goaltending positions, I believe is the main/sole reason for them only being able to win 1 round of playoff hockey in the last 6 years.

Thanks.

I have no evidence to support the statement that the Leafs were MORE impacted by Covid than other teams. That is my opinion. I have given rationale to support that opinion and have tried to run that rationale through other teams to see who may have been similarly impacted. The NYR maybe.

I never liked the approach or "strategy" to load up on forwards as much as they did. I said somewhere else in this thread that IMO Tavares costs of Pietrangelo. I also believe that we would be better of Pietrangelo than JT.

It's possible that without Covid we could have had both of them. This is the part we will never know for sure and therefore should be a consideration when assessing the plan and how effective it was.

It's not an excuse and I support Dubas having been removed from the organization.

The problem with his plan was that it was totally centered on those forwards rather than the entire team. I was so glad when Tre spoke about it now being about the "team" rather than "the core and everybody else"!

Agree. There were lots of problems with the plan, my Covid comments should not be taken as support or excuses for Dubas.

 

[mydnyte]

I don't follow your logic.

What makes you think he'd have better offensive numbers on a significantly poorer offensive team? We've been desperate for offense from our blueline for years, and Lil has given us nothing. What has he shown you that makes you think he'd be a good offensive player on a different team? His skating, vision, shot, etc are completely unremarkable, and he usually plays pretty tentative on top of that.

Ferraro's profile is quite different...how many times have you actually seen him play?

when a player is moved up and given more ice time and more responsibility their numbers usually increase as well, regardless and in spite of how bad the team is, and especially if/when the team is bad, because they are given ever more free reign to produce.

i.e. Moore was a 4th liner for us, goes to LA is is on their top line, not because he's a better player there, but, they had the spot available for him to move up and play a bigger role, while he was blocked here and in him limited role couldnt show his abilities

 

[Fogelhund]

Definitely a huge risk and might not be worth it even at 50% retained. I’m just trying to go through the NHL centers and see if there are any trade options if we loose out on either Lindholm or Stephenson which will probably be the case.

Not many options available out there.

C's, good RD, and G's... those can be tough positions to fill properly. So much depends on what happens with Marner though.... do we trade for a C? Do we trade for a draft pick that might get us that C? Do we have cap room to address the C position AND our other deficiencies, if we don't move Marner?

Couts was such a good player at one point... a shame that the injuries have degraded his game... They just made him their C... which would make it weird to then trade him... but then it was weird they healthy scratched him too. There is a scenario there, where he could be moved for sure.

 

[conFABulator]

It seems Vegas is okay with having done that!

No doubt that Vegas did a better job than us. Tampa and Carolina too.

It's hard to say that Boston or Florida did though. Boston hasn't won a cup and their window seems to be closing before ours (my opinion) and Florida seems to be a good template for what we are doing. They bottomed out around 10 years ago and drafted top 3 for four out of five years. They got Gudbranson, Huberdeau, Ekblad and Barkov. They went 20+ years without ever winning a playoff round, they changed GM, coach and moved out Huberdeau (and Gudbranson). The point is, if anyone points to them as a success I would say it was a journey that took ten years that may end in the ultimate success.

 

[ACC1224]

""

Since he's RFA, I'm guessing there is no rush.

 

[Torontonian]

I was impressed with Brads FA last year (aside from Kling and letting Schenn walk). Let’s see what he does this year

I'd argue it was just an alright off season for him. He kind of saved it for himself by getting Bert and Domi. He was hand tied with what he could do, but still... This will be the real summer he puts his stamp on the team.

Good signings:
Bert
Domi
Benoit

Not good signings:
Klingberg (understoodwhat he wanted to do but it didn't work out for anyone)
Reaves (didn't need him what so ever)
Kampf contract

 

[Fogelhund]

Since he's RFA, I'm guessing there is no rush.

I like Lilly, and I think his game has room to grow some... but, it's also prudent to see if they are able to upgrade...

Just because a media person hasn't heard about negotiations, doesn't mean there hasn't been some discussion, to at least determine what expectations are.

Or, like you say, there isn't any real rush... none of the other RFA's have been discussed yet either.

 

[ULF_55]

Since he's RFA, I'm guessing there is no rush.

They just have to offer him $1.5mm, to retain him for the year.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

""

I heard that Staios in Ottawa has been phoning GMs like mad. He's just itching to make a trade. I mean, ideally, I'd love a hockey trade between us and them for Mitch (so many pieces we can use in Ottawa like Chychrun, Chabot, Norris, Pinto, etc), but I know that's a long shot.

I'm wondering what Lily can get us from Ottawa? They're probably going to lose Chychrun. A cheap RD player, who may do better in another market, may be enticing to them.

2024 - 25th overall, or 39th overall?

 

[LeafEgo]

Two things.

(1) I am not bringing excuses for failures. I am saying we won't know if Dubas would have had more success with his plan if the cap went up.

(2) It's not hard to imagine that this team may have had different results with Hyman, a top 4 D and a goalie that they could have fit in with $20M in additional cap space on top of the four. This MAY have been the plan that Covid messed up. Here is a quote from an article on the Athletic in October 2020.

"Toronto would be at the front of the line for Pietrangelo’s services, pushing the bidding sky high.

But with the cap potentially flat (or near flat) for years, giving a nearly 31-year-old free agent more than 10 percent of your cap space for seven years is a tough ask."

20M is a stretch, but even still, half of that would have been eaten up by re-signing the other half of our current team at increased rates, and keeping Hyman would have cost 6-7M. Other contenders would have been able to surplus add as well to varying degrees, and now the three amigos would be looking for an extra 10M.

Toronto could have, and should have, landed Petro flat cap or not.

 

[Kurtz]

when a player is moved up and given more ice time and more responsibility their numbers usually increase as well, regardless and in spite of how bad the team is, and especially if/when the team is bad, because they are given ever more free reign to produce.

i.e. Moore was a 4th liner for us, goes to LA is is on their top line, not because he's a better player there, but, they had the spot available for him to move up and play a bigger role, while he was blocked here and in him limited role couldnt show his abilities

But that doesn't really apply to Lil - he was given nearly 20 minutes/game this year, and with us desperate for offense from D, particularly from the right-side, he had ample opportunity to distinguish himself...and outside of a small stretch of games when I think Morgan was out, he was never able to grab the reigns.

I think that speaks much more to his limitations as a player than a lack of opportunity, like was the case with Moore who was a healthy scratch a lot and when he did play, was barely given any minutes.

 

[4thline]

Nothing I see of note in Group 6 other than maybe Matthews Phillips (Tre pick) to help stir the drink with the Marlies.

Any word on interesting potential non-tender candidates league wide?

 

[Rare Jewel]

Nothing I see of note in Group 6 other than maybe Matthews Phillips (Tre pick) to help stir the drink with the Marlies.

Any word on interesting potential non-tender candidates league wide?

Interesting shout.

Lucas Carlsson in Florida is another I'd consider. His position is kind of similar to Forsling's in Carolina. That's not to say he'll be that good, but based on the numbers, he's likely too good for the A.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/report-maple-leafs-want-to-bring-max-domi-and-tyler-bertuzzi-back-but-team-is-nervous-of-term

According to Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman, who appeared on Leafs Morning Take on Wednesday, Toronto is being fairly cautious with giving out term, and if either of these two players gets to free agency, it'll likely be because the two sides couldn't agree on contract length.


"I know Domi wants some term. Look, I think Max Domi is a perfect Leaf. I think he's going to be happy to be here for a long time. I think Toronto is nervous of term. I think if they can find a term number that makes sense to both sides, then I think it happens," Friedman said.

The longest I’d go with them is 4 years to coincide with Matthews’ contract. Maybe 5 if it brings the AAV down so we can sign a big name defenseman.

 

[4thline]

Interesting shout.

Lucas Carlsson in Florida is another I'd consider. His position is kind of similar to Forsling's in Carolina. That's not to say he'll be that good, but based on the numbers, he's likely too good for the A.

Good call. I was mainly looking for guys that had started that NHL level breakout (Bunting/Benoit types), not going as deep.

 

[Gabriel426]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/report-maple-leafs-want-to-bring-max-domi-and-tyler-bertuzzi-back-but-team-is-nervous-of-term

Leafs is preparing for McD, lol.

 

[OVO16]

If Hronek gets traded before the draft, have to assume we're interested no? How big of a contract is he looking for?

 

[Captain Crunch]

No doubt that Vegas did a better job than us. Tampa and Carolina too.

It's hard to say that Boston or Florida did though. Boston hasn't won a cup and their window seems to be closing before ours (my opinion) and Florida seems to be a good template for what we are doing. They bottomed out around 10 years ago and drafted top 3 for four out of five years. They got Gudbranson, Huberdeau, Ekblad and Barkov. They went 20+ years without ever winning a playoff round, they changed GM, coach and moved out Huberdeau (and Gudbranson). The point is, if anyone points to them as a success I would say it was a journey that took ten years that may end in the ultimate success.

I said the same thing about Boston, but the difference there is obviously in net and on defense.
And you are right about Florida, especially with the dmen they were able to draft, as well as the goaltending they have gotten. Therein lies the difference when comparing us to them, basically a perfect blend of forwards, dmen, and goalies, whereas we have great regular season forwards but not so much in the playoffs, a patchwork of dmen although McCabe and Benoit have been pleasant surprises and Rielly although he did not have a good playoff this year, and a very good goalie in Woll but who can't stay healthy.

 

[4thline]

I can't see Tre being so stupid as to make the exact same mistake as last offseason as to take the available money that should be used to fix the D and give it to Bert and Domi. I have to assume that if they're seriously looking at bringing both back it signals some bigger changes are afoot.

 

[SprDaVE]

Nothing I see of note in Group 6 other than maybe Matthews Phillips (Tre pick) to help stir the drink with the Marlies.

Any word on interesting potential non-tender candidates league wide?

There are always a couple surprises. Ben Meyers, Riley Tufte, Nick Blankenburg, Lucas Carlsson, Oskar Steen, Jasper Weatherby, Kole Lind, Jiri Patera, Matt Villalta, Lucas Johansen and as you said Matthew Phillips are Group 6 UFAs likely hitting the market. Could be some decent bets in there to at least very good Marlies additions.

As for non-tendered players, we'll see. There are always a few pretty interesting options. I wonder if someone like say Berggren is let go by the Red Wings?

 

[Kiwi]

If Hronek gets traded before the draft, have to assume we're interested no? How big of a contract is he looking for?

Apparently he's turned down 8M so maybe 9M-9M+, he's not going to be signing cheap

 

[JKG33]

I heard that Staios in Ottawa has been phoning GMs like mad. He's just itching to make a trade. I mean, ideally, I'd love a hockey trade between us and them for Mitch (so many pieces we can use in Ottawa like Chychrun, Chabot, Norris, Pinto, etc), but I know that's a long shot.

I'm wondering what Lily can get us from Ottawa? They're probably going to lose Chychrun. A cheap RD player, who may do better in another market, may be enticing to them.

2024 - 25th overall, or 39th overall?

I'd love to get Chychrun. Have a 1A-1B pair with him on one, and Rielly on the other. Chychrun also has one of the better shots out there among D-men, he'd be a great PP1 QB.

Problem with Liljgren out means the team needs to bring in a RD for each pair, unless McCabe is permanently playing there.

Rielly-X
Chychrun-McCabe
Benoit-X