Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[andora]

no because unfortunately it's just that bad

Howcome?

 

[zeke]

What numbers would you have plugged in for sandin liljegren nylander and matthews?

Another $30m?

 

[andora]

Another $30m?

No really.. individually if you want to guess

I guessed matthews at 13.52
Nylander at 9.5
Sandin at 1.6 (after signing 3 years 4.8 total this summer
Liljegren at 4 million (next contract guess)

 

[zeke]

Having such little money committed is only beneficial if the team has good targets to spend it on. A lot of their expiring pieces are UFA’s and outside of Matthews none of them you probably want to sign for 8 years, and yes that’s means then to be 28 year old Nylander. Liljegren at 25 and Sandin at 24 are exactly the type of players you’d want to give big 8 year deals to with that big money. If the Leafs lose one of Matthews/Nylander they are looking at:

Knies-Matthews (14M?)-Marner
Robertson (3M?)-Tavares-X
Steeves-Holmberg-Jarnkrok
X-Douglas-Anderson

Rielly-X
Sandin (4.5M?)-Liljegren (4.5M?)
Kokkonen-Niemela

X
Woll

I’d like to see one more right handed top 6F in there which could be Nylander. I just don’t see signing him until he’s 36 at 8.5M(?) being smart business.

I mean either the guys we have internally are worth good money or we hit the market to add more good players.

Either way we have so few commitments by 24-25 I can't see how we're in anything but a good position capwise.

 

[andora]

I mean either the guys we have internally are worth good money or we hit the market to add more good players.

Either way we have so few commitments by 24-25 I can't see how we're in anything but a good position capwise.

We just added 61.5 million for 8 players
5 forwards and 3 defence

23 million for 7 forwards 3 defence and 2 goalies

That is tighter then a _____________

 

[zeke]

We just added 61.5 million for 8 players
5 forwards and 3 defence

23 million for 7 forwards 3 defence and 2 goalies

That is tighter then a _____________

We have only $30m committed. I don't understand how you think thats tight.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Just to get some reaction

Calgary - Nylander
Toronto - Toffoli, Dube, Zary

New Jersey - Nylander
Toronto - Mercer, Wood, Tatar

We dont have cap space for all 6.

 

[andora]

We have only $30m committed. I don't understand how you think thats tight.

31.5 committed 4 players
30 million you threw out for sandin liljegren matthews nylander

61.5 for 8 players in theory. No word games trying to be played.. just looking ahead

 

[zeke]

31.5 committed 4 players
30 million you threw out for sandin liljegren matthews nylander

61.5 for 8 players in theory. No word games trying to be played.. just looking ahead

Our top 8 contracts make more than that this year.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Dammit Heinen gone too for cheap. Some nice wing depth.

 

[nuck]

We just added 61.5 million for 8 players
5 forwards and 3 defence

23 million for 7 forwards 3 defence and 2 goalies

That is tighter then a _____________

Oh its tight alright

 

[andora]

Our top 8 contracts make more than that this year.

they do yes - but we still look at 23 million split between 12 position players - that is on average 1.92 per player.

the salary re-signs/increases are growing faster than the salary cap. it's at the point it's just waiting for a salary cap increase.

2 goalies
3 defence
7 forwards

let's say just one forward stays (bunting or robertson etc.. ) at 4 million - it goes from 19 for 11 players. say 5 million for goaltending, goes to 14 million for 9 position players.

Unless we see sandin/liljegren/reilly being a three headed monster on the back end or exceptional cheap depth available that year. 1.5 million per position player. i just can't see this model being successful.

 

[zeke]

they do yes - but we still look at 23 million split between 12 position players - that is on average 1.92 per player.

the salary re-signs/increases are growing faster than the salary cap. it's at the point it's just waiting for a salary cap increase.

2 goalies
3 defence
7 forwards

let's say just one forward stays (bunting or robertson etc.. ) at 4 million - it goes from 19 for 11 players. say 5 million for goaltending, goes to 14 million for 9 position players.

Unless we see sandin/liljegren/reilly being a three headed monster on the back end or exceptional cheap depth available that year. 1.5 million per position player. i just can't see this model being successful.

I don't understand - we have less committed in 24-25 than most teams.

 

[613Leafer]

Dammit Heinen gone too for cheap. Some nice wing depth.

Heinen at 1M and Donato at 1.2M? No wonder we can't move Kerfoot for anything of value.

 

[andora]

I don't understand - we have less committed in 24-25 than most teams.

it's ok - we are going to go in circles.

my believe is one of the top salaries needs to go - this summer was the one to do it. whether that was nylander or muzzin - but to re-calibrate. i believe that this team will spin its wheels until tavares contract expires to be able to have mid range depth in the middle of the forward lineup while being able to use money on D (similar to what we are spending now).

the system in which this team runs with contracts has created a one or the other. if they win the stanley cup, nothing else matters, it worked. but anything less doesn't matter - i believe that as this team relies on hitting the buntings, hitting league average goaltending, and hitting 25% of their starting 12 from the bargain bin they will struggle to win it all.

i mean next off season is just another of the chorus - looks like 13.5 million with Samsonov/Anderson/Bunting/Engvall/Kampf all being free agents.. awesome

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Heinen at 1M and Donato at 1.2M? No wonder we can't move Kerfoot for anything of value.

Donato at 1.2 mill is not really a steal. Janmark went for 1.25 mill and I think he brings similar value all things considered. I would not be surprised to see Milano go at a similar hit for the same reason.

I think Heinen could have got a little bit more, but PIT gives him a better opportunity than most to cash in next year. He was a nicer ES producer than a Donato, but he too does not bring any kind of real defensive nor special teams value either.

Kerfoot brings defensive value, special teams value, was a better ES scorer than both, and while he has a higher cap hit, he costs less salary than both too.

The market got thinner but the number of suitors for Kerfoot really did not. That is a good thing for us.

 

[andora]

Kerfoot brings defensive value, special teams value, was a better ES scorer than both, and while he has a higher cap hit, he costs less salary than both too.

The market got thinner but the number of suitors for Kerfoot really did not. That is a good thing for us.

of the teams that can/will be able to afford his 'hit' - without us paying something, what incentive does a bottom team have for getting him?

 

[zeke]

of the teams that can/will be able to afford his 'hit' - without us paying something, what incentive does a bottom team have for getting him?

not every non-cap team is trying to lose.

 

[andora]

not every non-cap team is trying to lose.

Not what i asked though.. legimately what is incentive?

With the free agents left signing for peanuts... are anaheim arizona chicago legit options

Buffalo?

 

[123offtheglass]

of the teams that can/will be able to afford his 'hit' - without us paying something, what incentive does a bottom team have for getting him?

For bottom teams, they could either extend him or flip him at the deadline for more than they'd pay now.

Some bottom teams could benefit by reaching the cap floor while paying minimum salary.

He's also pretty versatile & would just straight up help teams in certain areas, unless the goal is a full blown tank.

For contenders he'd improve their team. Leafs are better with him but they're tight for cap space & something has to give; they'd probably like to accrue cap space & maybe have some cap/roster flexibility.

 

[zeke]

Not what i asked though.. legimately what is incentive?

With the free agents left signing for peanuts... are anaheim arizona chicago legit options

Buffalo?

Because Kerfoot is cheaper and better than those free agents.

 

[LeafChief]

31.5 committed 4 players
30 million you threw out for sandin liljegren matthews nylander

61.5 for 8 players in theory. No word games trying to be played.. just looking ahead

Maybe I'm not understanding your post but if you count Matthews and Nylander in the '31.5 committed to 4 players', you can't also include them in the additional 30 million he said he thinks it would cost to sign the players you listed as Matthews and Nylander would be listed twice each.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

of the teams that can/will be able to afford his 'hit' - without us paying something, what incentive does a bottom team have for getting him?

Who says it will be a bottom team?

Dallas and Calgary (once they figure out their RFA's), Winnipeg, Minnesota, and Colorado all could use a guy like Kerfoot and can afford his cap hit. None of those teams are rebuilding right now.

And out of the bottom teams who are not competing (Arizona, Chicago, Anaheim, Buffalo, etc.), he has major TDL value and is a solid veteran presence.

For some reason you have some conception that Kerfoot is a cap dump when he is far from it. We may need his cap space to re-sign Sandin, but we are in no rush to do that right now (he can even sit for part of the season as far as the Leafs are concerned) and we can also do that by moving Holl, who has a separate list of teams with needs and cap space to afford him.

 

[TheDoldrums]

There is really no need to be concerned with our 24-25 and beyond cap situation, we have remarkably few contracts committed compared to most teams. It's Rielly, Jarnkrok and 1 year left for Marner/Tavares.

I also wonder if the team can convince Tavares to waive his NMC for that final year. $910k salary after he gets his July bonus. He waives and returns a hero on low salaries later on.

 

[Stephen]

Have you played here for the Leafs?

Not picking on you in particular. Not that it's the same as having played here, but I think just about everyone who lives here, follows the Leafs, or even hockey in general, knows that this is a tough market. 14,872 posters a day say it right here.

There are certainly lots of examples of players who struggled here but succeeded elsewhere. I don't see anything wrong with his statement.

No, I haven't played for the Leafs, which is exactly why I wouldn't make comments about what a fish bowl experience or tough it is to be a Leaf player relative to another market or team. Connor obviously has insight as a hockey player, but to deliver as a Leaf in this market? Not for him to say how easy or tough it is.

Players succeed and fail in other markets too. It's hardly a Toronto problem if we look at career ups and downs.