Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

[Leaffan1991]

It was only a few games but Liljergen played well with Rielly. Mo has had his best games of the season beside him

If we go Rielly - Liljergen you free up Brodie to go on a shutdown pair

If you can go that route then we can strictly use Rielly and Lilly in offensive situations and the other two pairs for the tougher matchups

 

[meefer]

I don't see anybody not accepting that a player can be physical and have other attributes. The issue seems to be more that some people want to spend assets to make sideways moves in order to chase the one specific attribute they overrate.

If the players are comparable in most other areas, but one has a higher degree of physical play, I don't consider the exchange of the two players to be a sideways move. How much a team spends on the acquisition would depend on whether I saw the move as being a 'smart' move or not. Meier would be my hope, as I think he's the most impactful winger available, but I would be very leery of attempting to acquire him due to the cost involved and the ability to re-sign him, a dangerous consideration in my view. Barbashev or Perron, I'd investigate.

 

[GQS]

Henrique is one of the only sources of competence on an awful Anaheim team. He's pacing for 31 goals/51 points and will provide depth scoring this team needs. He'll likely play 3C for us, but can step up to 2C and potentially go on LW at times. He's also signed for an extra year so we aren't getting a pure rental here

Comtois is more of a throw in to see if we can get lucky with him. He's a young player who has been in absolutely depressing environment, maybe a change of scenery is what he needs. If he works out you suddenly got the 2LW type of player you really wanted

Henrique isn't bad, but again if the Leafs are 'going for it' I don't think he's the guy that will bring the Leafs to the next level. As for Comtois unless you can get him for dirt cheap I'd rather just give Knies a shot instead.

If the Leafs are going to make a trade, I'd hope that they would trade for a forward that can put up some points and score some goals. Leafs offense is good, but sometimes for whatever reason like tonight against the Sens they seem to struggle to generate scoring and getting another good scorer would be a big help.

 

[leafsfan5]

Henrique isn't bad, but again if the Leafs are 'going for it' I don't think he's the guy that will bring the Leafs to the next level. As for Comtois unless you can get him for dirt cheap I'd rather just give Knies a shot instead.

If the Leafs are going to make a trade, I'd hope that they would trade for a forward that can put up some points and score some goals. Leafs offense is good, but sometimes for whatever reason like tonight against the Sens they seem to struggle to generate scoring and getting another good scorer would be a big help.

The Leafs main requirement is someone to score outside of the big 4, Henrique provides that. He has 5 seasons with 20+ goals, paced for 27 last year and is pacing for 30 this year. You want someone to score goals, he's your guy

 

[thusk]

We should be able to get him at 50%, not like Anaheim needs the cap space

And what do you think it will cost...You can start with minimum 2 1st pick

The fact anaheim can keep cap hit doesn't mean they will accept to pay 2.9M+ of salary for free

 

[Antropovsky]

Power forwards are really hard to come by. After Lucic coming into the League every team tried to draft a Lucic type of player. Tyler Biggs for example, Kyle Beach, Zach Kassian

They don't make those players anymore, players who are tough and score like Shanahan and Robarts like they used to

A lot of people here dont' get toughness. They think toughness means dropping the gloves like Simmonds. Tough means difficult to play against like Perry, O'Reilly, Kadri, heck even McKinnon throws his weight around. Kuch is no walk in the park either

I saw some comments earlier, that Penguins were never tough. Well they have a player name Crosby who has that already built that in his game. He's the ultimate grinder. Go see how many hits Malkin throws once in a while, he's no pushover.

This team for all his numbers, stats doesn't feel like a playoff contending team. We see this every year, numbers look good in every sense, but we just lack that extra gear, that extra effort

But you know me, as I am told by many around here, liking toughness and team that plays tough, I must be a doomer.....or boomer.... I forget which one

Agreed.. We don't need players who throw a million hits or fight a lot... We just need some passion, intensity, fire, a bit of a brotherhood.

Jeez people in this thread acting like others are wanting a team full of Bob Proberts and Tie Domi's... When all people want is for someone to grab a mother %&$& in a scrum - instead of watching from afar or skating to the bench.

 

[leafsfan5]

And what do you think it will cost...You can start with minimum 2 1st pick

The fact anaheim can keep cap hit doesn't mean they will accept to pay 2.9M+ of salary for free

There is 0 chance it will cost a 2 first rounders. This is Adam Henrique, not Timo Meier

Ducks fans want a 1st + a smaller piece

 

[fahad203]

Agreed.. We don't need players who throw a million hits or fight a lot... We just need some passion, intensity, fire, a bit of a brotherhood.

Jeez people in this thread acting like others are wanting a team full of Bob Proberts and Tie Domi's... When all people want is for someone to grab a mother %&$& in a scrum. Shi% a dirty look would even suffice.

Fun fact. Bob probert was an all star once. Scored 27 goals in this league

 

[MarMarSab3]

Kill 2 birds, get Jones and Comtois outta Anaheim

 

[GQS]

The Leafs main requirement is someone to score outside of the big 4, Henrique provides that. He has 5 seasons with 20+ goals, paced for 27 last year and is pacing for 30 this year. You want someone to score goals, he's your guy

Not saying he can't score, but Henrique is playing 16+ mins a night to get those goals so he's not exactly an elite scorer or anything and it seems unlikely that he's going to get that many minutes if he's playing with the Leafs. If the Leafs really want someone who can put up points, there has to be a better option out there.

 

[leafsfan5]

Not saying he can't score, but Henrique is playing 16+ mins a night to get those goals so he's not exactly an elite scorer or anything and it seems unlikely that he's going to get that many minutes if he's playing with the Leafs. If the Leafs really want someone who can put up points, there has to be a better option out there.

Well there are other options, but their either rentals or their price is too high:

Timo Meier - Ideally he's the perfect fit, but we can't afford what it will cost to get him. Especially with NJ interested
Vladimir Tarasenko - He'll likely cost a 1st but is a pure rental
ROR - Another pure rental that will cost a 1st, plus there are concerns about his performance
Patrick Kane - He might be washed tbh


I like Tarasenko, think he could be a fit. But there's a report out there saying Leafs aren't interested in a 1st for a rental, so that is unlikely

 

[thusk]

There is 0 chance it will cost a 2 first rounders. This is Adam Henrique, not Timo Meier

Ducks fans want a 1st + a smaller piece

There no chance duck giving up henrique at the same price they will get next season at trade deadline and retain 50%...

 

[GQS]

Well there are other options, but their either rentals or their price is too high:

Timo Meier - Ideally he's the perfect fit, but we can't afford what it will cost to get him. Especially with NJ interested
Vladimir Tarasenko - He'll likely cost a 1st but is a pure rental
ROR - Another pure rental that will cost a 1st, plus there are concerns about his performance
Patrick Kane - He might be washed tbh


I like Tarasenko, think he could be a fit. But there's a report out there saying Leafs aren't interested in a 1st for a rental, so that is unlikely

I wouldn't mind Tarasenko if he didn't cost too much, but even with a down year this season I'd like Kane on the Leafs if he came at a reasonable cost. This is the first time in 5 seasons that he hasn't averaged a PPG pace so it doesn't seem unreasonable that he couldn't regain his offensive form if he played in the Leafs' top 6.

I haven't follow Meier much so I don't know why he's so hyped when last season was the first time in his career that he averaged a PPG, but it seems like it would take alot to get him so I'd pass on him anyways. As for ROR I wouldn't him either, but can he stay healthy and come at a reasonable cost? Who knows.

 

[leafsfan5]

There no chance duck giving up henrique at the same price they will get next season at trade deadline and retain 50%...

Possible, but who knows if he returns a 1st next year and this year is a deep draft

You give a 2023 1st and another piece they'll heavily consider.

 

[thusk]

Possible, but who knows if he returns a 1st next year and this year is a deep draft

You give a 2023 1st and another piece they'll heavily consider.

They can still keep henrique an other year and use him like a mentor for zegras ...

 

[Knies iT]

Agreed.. We don't need players who throw a million hits or fight a lot... We just need some passion, intensity, fire, a bit of a brotherhood.

Jeez people in this thread acting like others are wanting a team full of Bob Proberts and Tie Domi's... When all people want is for someone to grab a mother %&$& in a scrum - instead of watching from afar or skating to the bench.

They're intentionally using straw man arguments to avoid the actual point and be dismissive.

Some posters have dug their heels in ideologically to the point that they will refuse to even acknowledge this being of any significance. We've slowly gotten to the point now where "of course we want physicality, assuming they can play!".

This team needs to get a metric f*ck ton harder to play against. On D, in the top 6, in the bottom six, you name it. When the "playoff" type games come around (Boston, Tampa, Winnipeg), it's convenient that we have guys like Benn, Simmonds, Hunt, etc. dressing and having to settle every score for the team. In the playoffs, you have guys like Lyubushkin being over utilized, way out of their depth, because Keefe is salivating for any semblance of physical compete. Yet, these players are trash and won't move the needle when it matters, so it's a mirage. When 3/4 of them are inevitably scratched, nobody steps up.

 

[Antropovsky]

They're intentionally using straw man arguments to avoid the actual point and be dismissive.

Some posters have dug their heels in ideologically to the point that they will refuse to even acknowledge this being of any significance. We've slowly gotten to the point now where "of course we want physicality, assuming they can play!".

This team needs to get a metric f*ck ton harder to play against. On D, in the top 6, in the bottom six, you name it. When the "playoff" type games come around (Boston, Tampa, Winnipeg), it's convenient that we have guys like Benn, Simmonds, Hunt, etc. dressing and having to settle every score for the team. In the playoffs, you have guys like Lyubushkin being over utilized, way out of their depth, because Keefe is salivating for any semblance of physical compete. Yet, these players are trash and won't move the needle when it matters, so it's a mirage. When 3/4 of them are inevitably scratched, nobody steps up.

Trotz on Leafs star players: "The thing I saw with them last year is the commitment level in the playoffs. Their stars were blocking shots. They got their noses dirty a little more usually. They made the simple play when they had to. They didn’t try to force things

I bet this line by Trotz doesn't have anything to do with being more physical, right?

 

[dubplatepressure]

Agreed.. We don't need players who throw a million hits or fight a lot... We just need some passion, intensity, fire, a bit of a brotherhood.

Jeez people in this thread acting like others are wanting a team full of Bob Proberts and Tie Domi's... When all people want is for someone to grab a mother %&$& in a scrum - instead of watching from afar or skating to the bench.

Literally no one is acting that way. You are just being hyperbolic. We are all saying the same thing.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

not sure what the fascination with Crouse is. Size? Not really an upgrade at his cost.

If you don’t think adding Crouse would improve this team, I don’t know what to tell you

Agreed.. We don't need players who throw a million hits or fight a lot... We just need some passion, intensity, fire, a bit of a brotherhood.

Jeez people in this thread acting like others are wanting a team full of Bob Proberts and Tie Domi's... When all people want is for someone to grab a mother %&$& in a scrum - instead of watching from afar or skating to the bench.

I would take a prime Probert right now

 

[SeaOfBlue]

They're intentionally using straw man arguments to avoid the actual point and be dismissive.

Some posters have dug their heels in ideologically to the point that they will refuse to even acknowledge this being of any significance. We've slowly gotten to the point now where "of course we want physicality, assuming they can play!".

This team needs to get a metric f*ck ton harder to play against. On D, in the top 6, in the bottom six, you name it. When the "playoff" type games come around (Boston, Tampa, Winnipeg), it's convenient that we have guys like Benn, Simmonds, Hunt, etc. dressing and having to settle every score for the team. In the playoffs, you have guys like Lyubushkin being over utilized, way out of their depth, because Keefe is salivating for any semblance of physical compete. Yet, these players are trash and won't move the needle when it matters, so it's a mirage. When 3/4 of them are inevitably scratched, nobody steps up.

At this point, I am not even sure there is an actual point. The idea of toughness changes all of the time. Sometimes it is we need a guy who runs people through the boards, fights, etc. We have seen people throw around Ryan Reaves as a solution only a few months ago. People still want Simmonds playing in games when there is really no circumstance, short of a ton of injuries (and I mean a ton of injuries), where that should happen.

Otherwise it is needing guys who are "tough to play against", which seemingly has a lot of different meanings to different people. I think some guys who are being considered "soft" are very tough to play against, and I think we have had a lot of physical players who have been super easy to play against. A lot of guys would probably love to play against a guy like Simmonds or Reaves right now, as long as they don't have to fight them.

There were people constantly advocating for Lyubushkin to stay in the lineup, and claiming how good he was, even though he was a steaming pile of garbage who was carried by Rielly most of the time. Even in the useful physical stuff, like board battles and net-front coverage, he was often worse than the guys who everyone claims is "soft" on our back end. He just threw a few huge hits once in a while and that made some people think he was really good.

So the goal posts are definitely being shifted when it comes to toughness. And there have certainly been a ton of clamouring to make this team worse in favour of adding toughness to the lineup. Without a doubt.

My position on toughness has pretty much remained the same. It has to be useful, it can come in many forms, and it is often overrated (at least in its traditional form). Win board battles, put pressure on the other team on the forecheck, work hard in all three zones, go to the tough areas to score and work hard in our own end to make sure that the other team doesn't get easy chances. You don't need to be very big or traditionally physical or throw a ton of hits to do those things, and those win you hockey games. I like a lot of the energy guys the Leafs have brought in through the draft beyond just Knies. Tverberg is going to be a fan favourite in that regard, and it is why I like Joey Anderson a lot too. Both are around 6'0", 200 lbs and their high energy style compliments a solid set of skills (Tverberg even has some above-average offensive skills).

If you are big/physical/throw hits as well, then great, but it is not enough on its own. There needs to be a lot of foundational skill beneath it to make it truly worthwhile, and there just are not a lot of guys in the league who possess those skills enough to be worth having in a lineup over other guys who maybe do not throw as many hits or are as big and physical... And those who do are either extremely rare and valuable (Knies could be that), or are made out to be much better players than they actually are. Hence, they are overrated (Knies could also be that).

 

[All Mod Cons]

Don't make any moves. Just go with these guys and sort it out in the offseason. Don't make things worse and waste assets.

 

[BertCorbeau]

They can still keep henrique an other year and use him like a mentor for zegras ...

They have Strome and his value is probably at a peak right now.

 

[thusk]

They have Strome and his value is probably at a peak right now.

If the price is just a 1st and B prospect for one year and half at really low price for quality of player, what you said didn't make any sense

If his price is a peak right now why they should sell him low? A solid 2 way C 56 pts pace at 2.9M 1 year and half in my mind have higher value than a coleman 45 pts pace for 1 year and half at 1.8M.

A 1st and B prospect its probably henrique value without any rentention

 

[DcW]

As said in this thread, depth scoring is the need. The ability to get a timely goal from the bottom 6 in a game the top two lines are getting shutdown or change momentum with a hard, physical shift. Lines 3/4 haven’t been able to do that. We need This years Goodrow/Coleman addition.
Henrique is interesting. He brings similar attributes those guys did to Tampa.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

Sign me up for Bertuzzi. He will be the cheapest 20-30 goal rental this year. Checks off what we're looking for too (size, passion, aggression, skill, left wing). Don't think we need to give a 1st.