Speculation: Trade Thread Part XI: New year...no trades.
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Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Doncha just hate it when you write a long response to another poster without realizing it's going to fall like 3rd from the end of the thread? 
BBKers
Registered User
Not a fan really 
But I could see Sather doing something like this:
TRADES
Resigns free agents Cally (5,8M), Girardi (5,5 M), Zucc (3M), Kreider (2,5 M) & J Moore (1,8 M)
Lets the rest walk (we should get something for Stralman IMO)
Signs UFAs Statsny (Typical Sather) & Tanner Glass
2014/2015 ROSTER
FORWARDS
Evander Kane ($5.250m) / Paul Stastny ($7.000m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Ryan Callahan ($5.700m)
Mats Zuccarello ($3.000m) / Patrik Berglund ($3.550m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m) Or ev Kristo
Tanner Glass ($1.500m) / Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Brian McGrattan ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Cody Franson ($2.400m)
John Moore ($1.800m) / Conor Allen ($0.925m)
Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
TOTALS
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,123,333; BONUSES: $1,971,667
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $976,667
But I could see Sather doing something like this:
TRADES
- MDZ for Fransson and a 3rd
- Stepan, Hagelin, Krsito/2nd for E Kane & 7th
- Brassard and prospect/4th for Berglund
- Boyle to Vancouver for a 2nd (or eventually Montreal)
- Trade some smaller pieces for the obligatory Sather goon McGrattan (to teach Big Mac a thing or two)
Resigns free agents Cally (5,8M), Girardi (5,5 M), Zucc (3M), Kreider (2,5 M) & J Moore (1,8 M)
Lets the rest walk (we should get something for Stralman IMO)
Signs UFAs Statsny (Typical Sather) & Tanner Glass
2014/2015 ROSTER
FORWARDS
Evander Kane ($5.250m) / Paul Stastny ($7.000m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Ryan Callahan ($5.700m)
Mats Zuccarello ($3.000m) / Patrik Berglund ($3.550m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m) Or ev Kristo
Tanner Glass ($1.500m) / Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Brian McGrattan ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Cody Franson ($2.400m)
John Moore ($1.800m) / Conor Allen ($0.925m)
Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
TOTALS
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,123,333; BONUSES: $1,971,667
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $976,667
Last edited:
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
Oh, you don't like people misquoting you?
THEN STOP ****ING PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. You obviously cannot follow my reasoning, you think I like our play this season? I've probably slept less then 3 hrs a night 15 times this season because I have been so pissed after a loss.
The thing is, people won't hand us Cup.
Do you think Yzerman in Tampa will go:
Hey, they deserve one in NY, lets give them the Cup this year.
Or Peter Chiarelli will go:
Oh, the fans in NY really don't like their team this year, we gotta find a way to get them the cup.
I am sorry, newsflash, it don't work like that. I not dumb, I understand the thinking. Deal a vet for prospects and picks, hope to get lucky, regroup and go at it again. I would also be for that option, if I thought we got meaningless odds at succeeding with it if we dealt Girardi and Callahan. Because on the other side of the scale, by dismantling our team, we hurt the current kids and prospects we have. From McD to Kreider, good players are developed on good teams. Good players are destroyed on bad teams. But the thing is, looking at the current market, I just don't sense that this is a year where teams will pay a boat load for a rental. Hence, I don't think the odds really are improving in a meaningful way by dealing them for like "Kyle Palmieri" and a late 1st.
There is 30 teams in this league, you will not automatically improving by "taking a step backwards". More than anything, unless you are "the" team that really takes the most steps backwards of all by a wide margin, history has shown that the worst way to build a team in the NHL is to put yourself just on the outside looking in. We held on too long to Graves and co, its in that environment you really could have dumped 3-4 vets and took a step backwards because we had nothing else. This team has a core even if Dan G and Cally are dealt, Hank, McD, Staal, Hagelin, Stepan and so on and so on. You are at best getting a top 12-14 pick with this team even if you try to dismantle it...
All I am seeing is a bunch of alternatives to take a step backwards. Get a roster player that is a marginal upgrade over Poo and a so-so prospect born in 1996 that might help us in 2018 -- if -- everything turns out alright. Nobody is presenting any meaningful way of moving forward. We could draft a Corey Perry with a 15th overall pick, and we could draft him with a 25th overall pick. Very low odds for either alternative to be honest. We could find a steal in the player we get in return for Girardi, or we could keep Girardi and deal someone else for better value and find the steal that way.
I've numerous times said that I wouldn't hesitate to deal like Cally if we got a meaningful return for him. The thing is, on the current market, I just doubt we would get a meaningful return.
Doncha just hate it when you write a long response to another poster without realizing it's going to fall like 3rd from the end of the thread?
I usually try to copy the last 20 posts, but I'm on mobile and it's a PITA. You can just copy and paste your post in this thread though.
The Gloaming
23
Alkurtz-
Couldn't agree more.
There are a few ways to build a cup-winning team in this league. None of them are easy. And taking a half-assed step backwards isn't one of them. Could that make sense anyway? Of course, you always gotta manage your cap. Plan ahead. But on many it seems like odds are that you will get better if you take a step backwards. History shows otherwise. That thinking has been the biggest iceberg in the NHL the last 30 years.
Couldn't agree more.
There are a few ways to build a cup-winning team in this league. None of them are easy. And taking a half-assed step backwards isn't one of them. Could that make sense anyway? Of course, you always gotta manage your cap. Plan ahead. But on many it seems like odds are that you will get better if you take a step backwards. History shows otherwise. That thinking has been the biggest iceberg in the NHL the last 30 years.
BrooklynRangersFan- I liked the use of ergo!
I am just allergic to the notion that if what we have won't win a cup its always better to get something else. Even if that something else is worse than what we have and give us a worse chance to winning a Cup.
That type of thinking is perfectly on par with trading Korpikoski for Lisin. Will Korpikoski win us a cup? Ok lets trade him for Lisin then. I am sorry, but we didn't become one bit better by that trade either. A Ford Fiesta is a Ford Fiesta no matter how much you call it a Ferrari. If we get a roster player and the 26th overall pick, more or less 24 other team has a bigger chance to pick a great player in the draft than us no matter what.
Hence I am at least willing to consider to not dump our captain and No 1 RD (a position that it is real hard to find a player at these days) for crap. No matter if the contracts aren't ideal.
I am just allergic to the notion that if what we have won't win a cup its always better to get something else. Even if that something else is worse than what we have and give us a worse chance to winning a Cup.
That type of thinking is perfectly on par with trading Korpikoski for Lisin. Will Korpikoski win us a cup? Ok lets trade him for Lisin then. I am sorry, but we didn't become one bit better by that trade either. A Ford Fiesta is a Ford Fiesta no matter how much you call it a Ferrari. If we get a roster player and the 26th overall pick, more or less 24 other team has a bigger chance to pick a great player in the draft than us no matter what.
Hence I am at least willing to consider to not dump our captain and No 1 RD (a position that it is real hard to find a player at these days) for crap. No matter if the contracts aren't ideal.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
I usually try to copy the last 20 posts, but I'm on mobile and it's a PITA. You can just copy and paste your post in this thread though.
Hahaha. No worries - I wasn't complaining about the quality of the moderating; rather I was lamenting the timing of my posting.
Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make.
It only makes sense to make a move that will strengthen the team. The Rangers have made some bad moves of late and are not in a strong bargaining position right now.
I do not expect they will make any deals soon. But people like the idea of trades so this discussion is endless....and unproductive in my view.
It only makes sense to make a move that will strengthen the team. The Rangers have made some bad moves of late and are not in a strong bargaining position right now.
I do not expect they will make any deals soon. But people like the idea of trades so this discussion is endless....and unproductive in my view.
SlingshotVv
arm-bar all the things
How do you wind up with a top 5 pick with Lundqvist, McDonagh, Stepan, Kreider, and Nash in your line-up? Nash isn't going anywhere, and unless the wheels fall off the development of those guys, we're going to be icing a very talented core every night. They're already surrounded by a lot of suspect role players and they're not in lottery position, with a first year coach, and an entire new defensive scheme. So unless you're breaking up that core, forget the lottery dreams please. At worst those guys alone will carry us outside the lottery
Paulie Walnutz
HFNYR JUST AS SOFT AS NYR
- Oct 1, 2008
- 11,133
- 9,413
So bring everyone back with no cap space and let the mediocrity continue. People think players are like a rare coin collection and never want to part ways. You'd think we're the Blackhawks with this so called "core" that can't be moved
Look, please not that this is not what I think we will get, but what I think is enough to make up for what we loose, IE our heart and soul.
Id like to get a sure fire player. Someone that I know will count here in NY. Not a gamble. Not someone that is decent but not great all round nor really fill a need for us (say a Tatar, if a player with Tatar's skill was a RD I would be interested however).
To start with, you also gotta find a team that you can let Cally talk to so that the can agree on a deal before a trade is made so that you don't deal a rental.
So you know, Id definitely deal Cally, Girardi and Boyle for Yakupov and Eberle. But what does that take? THat EDM is desperate to jump start their game AND that EDM can talk with Cally and G and convince them to resign in EDM. What are the odds for that?
When Dallas traded James Neal, he was already a established 30 goal scorer. A PF. That is a good piece to get. Brayden Schenn is a good piece to get when Philly got him from LA. More or less a sure thing while the upside was / is a bit in question. Seguin was a good pickup. Hampus Lindholm from ANA is a player I would take, probably the only one that isn't completely unrealistic of the player mentioned so far...
Its not easy to get for a rental though. OTOH, our rentals aren't 35 y/o. They are 28 and 29 y/o, and any team getting them can just find out the asking price and resign them instantly. As can we.
I also definitely wouldn't be opposed to trading them for established players. Like getting say a Brent Burns to use as RD.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
BrooklynRangersFan- I liked the use of ergo!
I am just allergic to the notion that if what we have won't win a cup its always better to get something else. Even if that something else is worse than what we have and give us a worse chance to winning a Cup.
That type of thinking is perfectly on par with trading Korpikoski for Lisin. Will Korpikoski win us a cup? Ok lets trade him for Lisin then. I am sorry, but we didn't become one bit better by that trade either. A Ford Fiesta is a Ford Fiesta no matter how much you call it a Ferrari. If we get a roster player and the 26th overall pick, more or less 24 other team has a bigger chance to pick a great player in the draft than us no matter what.
Hence I am at least willing to consider to not dump our captain and No 1 RD (a position that it is real hard to find a player at these days) for crap. No matter if the contracts aren't ideal.
Listen, I understand that thinking generally. And were it two years ago, I would have agreed with you. Heck, I was fully on board with adding Nash to the core guys and thought we'd have a legit chance at the cup.
But once you've determined that the core you have isn't going to cut it, it's time to go back and start working on a new core. (It becomes especially imperative when key members of the current core are about to hit 30 AND cash in on Drury-esque retirement contracts.) That starts by maximizing the return (good, great, or indifferent) for the guys you have.
Now, I'm not saying dump them right now for whatever you can get. I don't want what was proposed in the Ott offer for MDZ over the holidays - and I don't think you have to settle for that. What I'm saying is that (unless someone is prepared to make a preemptive move now) you hold on to them until the deadline when bidding drives all the prices up and move them then.
(Back to ABCs.
) Summing up, there are three possible outcomes:A) We trade Cally and Girardi for the best packages we can get at the deadline.
B) We hang onto them and sign them to contracts.
C) We hang onto them and let them go to other teams in the offseason, receiving nothing for them in return.
I wish there was an option D where they were the core of a cup contender signed to long term contracts and we were going to go out and add to them, but unfortunately that isn't the case.
Therefore, A > B > C. Why? Scenario A gives you more chances (even if they're longshots) to find new core players. Scenario B gives you less chances - and you've burdened yourself with new contracts that are likely to wind up being Drury-esque before they're done. And in scenario C, you've got the same chance we've got now - except you've wasted some prime assets.
The Gloaming
23
I think the common misconception is that many people feel that those of us who are advocating for a "step back" are basically advocating for a Oilers-esque tank job. That's simply not the case. Yes, the draft is a crap shoot, but by increasing your odds with more picks, you increase the likelihood that you'll land quality talent.
The reality is that championship teams are built through the draft, free agency, and trades. Everything needs to be in balance. There's nothing wrong with landing a high pick this year and then making a shrewd FA signing on July 1st. What matters is that they all build towards the same goal: A championship caliber team that has an identity.
This team has been marred by inconsistency for years now. They're chasing the dream of squeaking into the playoffs once again, and people are lying to themselves if they think this is a team built for the playoffs, or if they think a couple of tweaks is going to turn this into a contender. Taking a risk on draft picks, or a trade of Girardi and / or Callahan is no more risky than signing two aging players to extended contracts. Especially when one is injured at least once per year, and the other is clearly average at best in the system the team is playing.
You need to build the team around players that fit. Right now, Girardi looks like a bad fit.
The reality is that championship teams are built through the draft, free agency, and trades. Everything needs to be in balance. There's nothing wrong with landing a high pick this year and then making a shrewd FA signing on July 1st. What matters is that they all build towards the same goal: A championship caliber team that has an identity.
This team has been marred by inconsistency for years now. They're chasing the dream of squeaking into the playoffs once again, and people are lying to themselves if they think this is a team built for the playoffs, or if they think a couple of tweaks is going to turn this into a contender. Taking a risk on draft picks, or a trade of Girardi and / or Callahan is no more risky than signing two aging players to extended contracts. Especially when one is injured at least once per year, and the other is clearly average at best in the system the team is playing.
You need to build the team around players that fit. Right now, Girardi looks like a bad fit.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Buff is an interesting target. Kane is an interesting target. Brayden Schenn is (still) an interesting target. There have got to be 25-30 prospects who I can't list off the top of my head who are interesting targets. First round picks are always interesting targets. There are all kinds of interesting targets - and all of them will have risks. But those are the risks you take once you know you don't have the proper core in place.
haveandare
Registered User
I think the point was that it's not terribly realistic, but those are the kinds of returns that he thinks would justify trading these guys. Therefore, it's probably not wise to trade them for whatever assortment of maybes they'll realistically bring back.
The Gloaming
23
Well that's just not happening. I would be thrilled with Tatar/Vatanen/Palmieri coming back for either 24 or 5. He calls them all "crap" and then decides that Eberle/Yakupov/Burns are the only realistic targets. Right.
Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
Exactly...yes, some teams still stink after getting high draft choices, and some teams are able to properly develop those high picks and build winners. I don't want four or five years of suckage to end up where the likes of Edmonton, Florida, Columbus or the Islanders are. But, I would like the opportunity to draft a top line player that is a legitimate piece to add to the core.
As others have said, the group that was built from the 2004-6, (namely, Staal, Callahan, Dubinsky, Girardi, Sauer and Anisimov), had its peak in 2011-2. That group went as far as it could given its limitations. High draft picks don't guarantee success, but, they do give you more ammunition. Giving long-term deals to Callahan and Girardi may appear noble, but, you're more likely to face the law of diminishing returns. I don't want just a round of playoff success. I want Cup contention, and staying the course by signing Girardi and Callahan to market value deals makes it less likely that Cup contention is a possibility. Some fans are making it out as if by not signing Girardi and Callahan, the Rangers are losing integral parts of a winning formula. Again, that group was able to make to the Conference finals by the skin of its teeth under optimal conditions. Those conditions don't exist at the present time.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
Sure, but consider that Buff both is likely cheaper and would help the team more than E. Kane he is a lot better target. We could "overpay" for Buff and still come out ahead so to speak, especially considering how bafflingly undervalued he seems at the moment - virtually no fuss at all has been made of his absence from the Team USA roster. Can't say the same about Kane at all, such a trade would likely rip our team apart.
OverTheCap
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2009
- 10,454
- 184
The Rangers need to start stockpiling draft picks, and they should also look to move up in the first round of the draft (something I believe they haven't done since drafting Staal). Make some shrewd trades that targets prospects with high-end potential rather than sacrificing picks and depth for already established players (i.e., Gomez for McDonagh rather than the Nash trade).
Finding young, cost-controlled talent is not easy, especially when you don't have the luxury of lottery picks, but they need to start thinking outside the box, because more of the same old will just end up with another cupless season.
Finding young, cost-controlled talent is not easy, especially when you don't have the luxury of lottery picks, but they need to start thinking outside the box, because more of the same old will just end up with another cupless season.
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