Proposal: Trade JVR?

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Spazkat

Registered User
Feb 19, 2015
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A lot of hyperbole by my fellow Leaf fans. Everything we know suggests JVR is not on the market so to the OP no, now does not appear to be the time.

As I have stated in other threads it is unlikely we know if he is a trade candidate until the team can talk extension, if that is not looking like it will work between both sides then he will be put on the market next deadline IMO.

There is no desperate urgency to get a D.

1. We are rebuilding and can draft/develop our own

2. Las Vegas will have a bunch of D to trade after expansion and other teams may want to move their #4 D if they cannot protect him.

3. There may be some decent options in free agency, would make more sense to only give up money if that is an option.

The bizarre fixation some of my fellow Leaf fans have with trading JVR seems to stem from the belief we are trying to win right now and getting a Defenseman is the most important thing in the world (ignoring we would have to replace him with a rookie who is not suited for 1rst line duties and does not have that upside or a third liner), when in fact we are a rebuilding team.

A lot of the desire also stems from imaginary things like how much term and money he will demand that no one knows the truth about. Most who push his trading are convinced he will be too much and too long. They also ignore the whole sheltering philosophy our management preaches and so far has practiced.

Curious as to where they are getting all of these extra D to trade? The expansion rules are pretty clear as to what numbers they are expected to draft at each position and the D is set at 9. So even assuming that they only keep 7 with the team and no others in reserve that only leaves 2 for trading purposes.
 

Hunter368

RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
Nov 8, 2011
27,316
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Is now the time to start thinking about moving Van Reimsdyk for a Top 2 Defence? Are the young core players (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Hyman) going to be able to get the job done? The Leafs lack talent on the back-end with the expectation of Reilly, Zaitsev and at times Gardiner.

If not JVR ... who?

Jvr doesn't land the Leafs a top pairing guy......no GM would do that.
 

Canada4Gold

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
43,033
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Rentals very seldom have a lot in common with normal hockey trades. Unless you're saying not trade JVR until the TDL next year, in which case those are valid.

If you're suggesting we'd get less for JVR now than at the 2018 deadline then I disagree, but if that were the case we'd just wait until then. Don't see the logic in taking a lesser offer now. So those type of deals are still the minimum

We can retain 50% so he could be traded at 2.125, I don't see how that gets less now than in a season and a half's time. Rentals tend to get more because there's not much concern about fitting the contract in later because it's off the books in the offseason. Trading a 1st line winger at 2.125 I think trumps that issue as it's barely an issue at all at that cap hit. And if it is we can take back and 2 million cap dump and make it a total non issue. The pros far outweigh the cons with comparison to rentals.

I think management wants to get to July 1st 2017 first, at which point an extension with JVR can be signed, see if we can get him for a reasonable cost and if not then think about trade. I doubt you'd see a trade this year regardless.
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
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Hamilton
Huge differnce! The Hossa contract is an absolute steal (unless he retires). The guy is a hall of famer...with a deal that was signed with the intent to circumvent the cap. If he retires after this year when his salary drops down to 1m per...guess what...Chicago fans will lose their marbles over it.

And you can't really compare Keith either...he was alreay a Norris trophy winner when they signed him to his long term extension. And Sharp...he signed a decent deal...but Chicago ultimately had to move him because it was too much for their salary structure. Now he did only sign a 5 yr deal at 29. If JVR was willing to sign a 5 year extension...that is definitely reasonable to consider. But he is not the greatest of skaters now...he is only going to get slower as he gets older. Do you really want to risk having a 6.5m 2nd or 3rd line winger when Marner, Matthews, Nylander, and this year's pick are all looking for big raises?

Just imagine all 3 of Marner, Matthews, and Nylander progress as we all hope? What are their next contracts going to be like? All 3 will likely be in the 6-7.5m per year range. That is going to eat up a big chunk of the cap. Might not make a JVR extension possible.

I don't see the conceptual difference, other than the cap structure circumvention. Hossa's cap hit in 2009/10 when he signed the deal is the equivalent of a ~$6.8m cap hit today and more assuming there's a cap rise next year+the year after, so JVR would likely costs less percentage of cap than Hossa did on a significantly shorter deal (I'm speculating that JVR ends up in the $6-6.5m range like Ladd/Okposo/Lucic), Hossa made 9.286% of Chicago's cap in his first year. Hossa is a better player, no doubt, but playing the same role on the team as a supplementary first line winger to the Kane/Toews core - the conceptual symmetry is there

Keith won the Norris the year after they signed Hossa, so for the sake of symmetry we would be talking about a potential norris winner in the 2018-2019 if we're talking about re-signing JVR next season. There's certainly that potential in Rielly

I get that there will be a big chunk of the cap eaten by RFA's and resignings, but they won't be the only big contracts on the books. Try not to think of it in dollar figures because that's misleading across long time spans, percentage of cap makes it apples-to-apples

I think we only consider it if all the stars align: the team's playing well, the kids are all turning out and JVR is still looking very effective. I disagree about his skating, his length/speed combo have always been a major weapon for him. He might slow down over time but should be NHL speed for a long time barring injury

Anyway, the door looks open to me, which is a good position because there's no pressure to do anything
 

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
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what is he worth? early 2nd, late 1st?

early 2nd? :laugh: thats a good joke.

15pts in 16 games, on a 4.25 hit for 2 years, has the size teams look for.

thats worth a pick that has a 15% chance of turning into an NHL player!
 

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
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Curious as to where they are getting all of these extra D to trade? The expansion rules are pretty clear as to what numbers they are expected to draft at each position and the D is set at 9. So even assuming that they only keep 7 with the team and no others in reserve that only leaves 2 for trading purposes.

you are wrong about the numbers being set at 9. that doesnt even make sense.

MIN: 14 forwards, 9dmen, 3 goalies.

Las Vegas could select 13 dmen if they want. it almost a guarantee they grab at least 11-12, and immediately look to parlay a few guys into prospects picks. There are gonna be more quality to choose from on D compared to upfront.
 

34

Registered User
Mar 26, 2010
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JVR will NOT be traded. He is a solid Top Line LW who is young, big and skilled. Proven 30 goal scorer, 2nd overall pick.

Very much a big part in the future of this young Maple Leafs team.
 

Caesium

Registered User
Apr 13, 2006
7,525
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JVR will NOT be traded. He is a solid Top Line LW who is young, big and skilled. Proven 30 goal scorer, 2nd overall pick.

Very much a big part in the future of this young Maple Leafs team.

So if he scores 30 goals this year and next, then demands $7.5M as a UFA, do the Leafs re-sign him?
 

LionelRichie

Registered User
Nov 16, 2016
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0
JVR + Bracco +2nd (2017) to Nashville for Colin Wilson + Dante Fabbro + Vladislav Kamenev
 
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Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
55,363
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40N 83W (approx)
JVR + Bracco +2nd (2017) to Nashville for Colin Wilson + Dante Fabbro + Vladislav Kamenev
Kamenev simply cannot be moved unless a good-quality young center is coming back, period - and in some cases not even then. He's basically our only hope in that regard - and we need hope there, as Fisher and Ribeiro aren't getting any younger. It's a severe area of weakness that we seriously need to bolster; making it worse would be courting disaster.
 

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
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Little late for this yeah? Leafs fans have been trying to pawn him off on everyone for the last 6 months.

Right now at least 15 teams are looking to upgrade their D, and they're all looking for the same thing. Young, top 4 if not top 2, etc. My guess is any of the better ones that do get moved will be at a premium with many teams looking to get an expansion exempt player back. Not sure how much a little over 1 year of JVR will get you in that market.

The 2 most recent good, young defender trades tend to suggest a steep price (if not overpayment):

  1. Jones for Johansen
  2. Larsson for Hall.
 

WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
33,884
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Kamenev simply cannot be moved unless a good-quality young center is coming back, period - and in some cases not even then. He's basically our only hope in that regard - and we need hope there, as Fisher and Ribeiro aren't getting any younger. It's a severe area of weakness that we seriously need to bolster; making it worse would be courting disaster.

I like Fabbro a lot, but this is such a future based move...I was hoping for something more solid then a RHD prospect...

Any interest in Bozak? Not even necessarily for Fabbro but we could take Ribiero back to help balance salaries.
 

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
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Lol what? Nobody in their right mind would give up a top 2 dman for JVR. Larsson was barely a top 2 dman and he got Hall.

Counter point: A bad trade by a desperate GM doesn't set league wide value.

Counter-counterpoint: I take umbrage with your assessment of that trade as "bad" and done by "a desperate GM". I mean, yes, I get it, there's quite a few annoying Oil fans out there who kept making out Larsson to be much much more than he is, but ultimately trade value is about what's available versus what's needed. And there's not much available out there for scoring wingers 'cause they're kind of in high supply.

Agreed - basic market economics of supply and demand at work. Maybe the poster would have preferred the Jones for Johansen trade? You pay a premium for the young, stud defender.
 

BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
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Curious as to where they are getting all of these extra D to trade? The expansion rules are pretty clear as to what numbers they are expected to draft at each position and the D is set at 9. So even assuming that they only keep 7 with the team and no others in reserve that only leaves 2 for trading purposes.

Well let's see, free agency, free wallets, the draft and trades. Maybe they want to run with 6 number 4 D but I suspect they will be flexible especially if they are getting some decent prospects back, which we could offer.

Surely they have 3 or 4 to play with.
 

Number1RedWingsFan52

Registered User
Mar 17, 2013
40,243
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Winter Haven Florida
Still thought that a deal around JVR for Fowler made the most sense, But seeing that Fowler wasn't dealt and more then likely isn't going to be dealt any time soon. That kind of put the kabosh on that.
 

Stuzchuk

Registered User
Mar 25, 2009
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Eastern Canada
Karlsson also isn't a "top 2 D", he's an elite #1 D/perrennial norris candidate

Not saying that JVR is worth a top 2 D, but Karlsson isn't that
to me top 2 = top pairing DMan... which is the euivalent of Karlsson for Ottawa since he's our only true top paring DMan...

The equivalent of vanRiemsdyk in the Defense dept., I would say Fowler is the closest valuewise but this topic had been beaten to death and will not be re-opened at this stage (please)
 

voxel

Testicle Terrorist
Feb 14, 2007
20,114
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Florida
One year left to UFA?

See David Perron to Oilers. 2nd and decent prospect (MPS at the time).
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
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Hamilton
to me top 2 = top pairing DMan... which is the euivalent of Karlsson for Ottawa since he's our only true top paring DMan...

The equivalent of vanRiemsdyk in the Defense dept., I would say Fowler is the closest valuewise but this topic had been beaten to death and will not be re-opened at this stage (please)

Again, no. If Karlsson is a top 5 Dman (I think that's safe), he's the top ~8% of top pairing dmen (the top 60 defensemen are worthy of a top pairing, by definition). He's a franchise player and that wasn't the intent of this thread

It's like saying "I wouldn't trade Tavares for that crap" in a thread about acquiring a top line player where the OP intended to mean the JVR level guys

agreed this has been beaten to death
 

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