Trade Ideas

[norrisnick]

That's why my first option was acquiring cheaper players even when they're not as good. I think we have a 2C in Kasper and/or 9OA. I know people are tired of the rebuild, but imo the time is not now. We are still few years away.

Which makes it perfectly fine to acquire a 2C now and then when Kasper or 9OA passes them we have a really good 3C.

 

[Kibe]

Which makes it perfectly fine to acquire a 2C now and then when Kasper or 9OA passes them we have a really good 3C.

With 8mil AAV. And 1-2 less good young players we could have got with those picks (possibly 3 if Berggren is included).

 

[norrisnick]

With 8mil AAV. And 1-2 less good young players we could have got with those picks (possibly 3 if Berggren is included).

If Bergie's included I'm not giving up two 1sts. The odds of a back half of the 1st round player being anywhere close to Lindholm in ability is very very slim. Hell, Lindholm himself was 5th overall.

 

[Oddbob]

I think guys like Peeke and Laughton would be ideal targets. Won't handcuff us from signing the future core long term and probably won't cost us 1st rounders.

41OA + 24 3rd for Peeke

Fabbri+42OA+43OA for Laughton

Something like that. Would it be enough?

Ras/Kubalik - Larkin - Perron
Laughton - Kasper - Raymond
Ras/Kubalik - Copp - Berggren
Zadina - Veleno - Chiasson
Czarnik, Luff

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Peeke
Määttä - Chiarot
Oesterle

Husso
UFA

Yes, still not a great team. But we keep all first rounders, and have a LOT of cap space in the near future so we can sign Mo, Ray, Ed and Kasper to long term deals that should be team friendly in a couple of years when we would start to rise.

2 second round picks and a roster player for a another Andrew Copp? Peeke was -41 last season, so does that improve to only -17 here? You are also giving up a 2nd and 3rd for someone worse than even most of our blueline. Last thing we need is a defender who can't defend and a forward who is only ok offensively and decent defensively.

 

[Kibe]

If Bergie's included I'm not giving up two 1sts. The odds of a back half of the 1st round player being anywhere close to Lindholm in ability is very very slim. Hell, Lindholm himself was 5th overall.

Yeah that's a fair point. I'm just not sure we are in a position just yet to move 1st rounders for 28yo. I'd be fine moving 2nd rounders, just would like to hold on to all those 1sts.

But like you said Lindholm most likely would still end up the best player in a trade like this. And i guess even when he's past his prime, he should still be effective enough when we turn the corner. Also maybe at some point you just have to rip off the band-aid and pay the price to improve the roster. Maybe i'm just being overly cautious.

Still i think you would need to add something on Berggren and a 1st as i think another team would beat that. Unless that 1st is 9OA, and i think we can agree that's a no go.

 

[Kibe]

2 second round picks and a roster player for a another Andrew Copp? Peeke was -41 last season, so does that improve to only -17 here? You are also giving up a 2nd and 3rd for someone worse than even most of our blueline. Last thing we need is a defender who can't defend and a forward who is only ok offensively and decent defensively.

I was trying to improve the roster a bit while maintaining long term cap flexibility. I guess maybe my valuations were a bit high.

EDIT: Actually reading the trade board, they are less than what fans are asking. Yes those are just fans and they usually ask for too much. But atleast with Laughton there's a reporter saying Philly turned down a late 1st, don't know, that seems foolish if they actually turned that down.

 

[norrisnick]

2 second round picks and a roster player for a another Andrew Copp? Peeke was -41 last season, so does that improve to only -17 here? You are also giving up a 2nd and 3rd for someone worse than even most of our blueline. Last thing we need is a defender who can't defend and a forward who is only ok offensively and decent defensively.

Mo was on pace for like a -33 before Chiarot got yanked from his pairing round Christmas time. Peeke is the only guy that can defend on a really bad team so he got all the hard minutes (especially after Gavrikov got traded).

 

[Detroit Knights]

Dorion: Hi Steve. What do you think about a Debrincat trade?

Yzerman: Hi Pierre. I think that's worth a conversation.

Dorion: Alex has several teams he is interested in, and he's an incredibly talented...

Yzerman: Cut to the chase, Pierre.

Dorion: We're asking a first and second this year, a second next year, and all signs point to him looking north of $9M AAV on his next deal.

*Yzerman glowers*
*Dorion wilts*

Dorion: Ok ok. Just a first this year and if you lean on him you can probably get him for $7-7.5M AAV.

Yzerman: Pleasure doing business with you, Pierre.

Don't see how this conversation doesn't occur exactly like it was inputted into this script. Great job.

I want to see Gudas, Keller, and Debrincat sign with Detroit. Travis Konecny another option. If Debrincat signs with Detroit he won't be wearing #12. That number was Sid Abel's and is in the rafters.

21 is available and will do just fine I think.

There's no reason to make big trades if we are not going to make playoffs anyway. One more bad year will help in the long run.

Would it actually be helpful? At that point, you have seider/larkin/raymond with years of experience in losing with no upward trajectory in sight. This team needs to start competing pretty soon if we want to add any good players worth having that would want to come here. Detroit used to be THE destination, need to get back to that and it should start this next year with improvements.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I'd agree there's no reason to trade all our firsts away in big trades, however, I think having so many extra picks, on top of the ridiculous number we've had the last three drafts, means we should now be open to moving at least one, ideally NYI pick, to start acquiring more proven NHL young talent



I think SY felt the team was not talented enough

I would hope that means he wants the team too be more talented

Other than our 9 OA this year, I would gladly trade all the rest of our 1st rounders and a couple seconds for two of Keller/Connor/Meier/Debrincat. They are all youngish and can instantly improve the rebuild.

If we get two of those four, everyone in our lineup instantly slots in the proper spot and we start competing next year. Then, when mazur/soderblom/wallinder/lombardi(?) are ready to go in 24-25, we will be one of the deepest teams in the playoffs, easily.

Just need to get the players first lol

 

[lilidk]

Don't see how this conversation doesn't occur exactly like it was inputted into this script. Great job.

21 is available and will do just fine I think.

Would it actually be helpful? At that point, you have seider/larkin/raymond with years of experience in losing with no upward trajectory in sight. This team needs to start competing pretty soon if we want to add any good players worth having that would want to come here. Detroit used to be THE destination, need to get back to that and it should start this next year with improvements.

I expect big improvement, it's now or never, from Zadina and Veleno, it will be third year for Raymond and Seider, usually it's third year with big improvement. We have plenty money to help unload some bad contract .

 

[Detroit Knights]

I expect big improvement, it's now or never, from Zadina and Veleno, it will be third year for Raymond and Seider, usually it's third year with big improvement. We have plenty money to help unload some bad contract .

Right...that is why having one more bad year, during the "usual third year big improvement" would be detrimental in the grand scheme of things, no?

This would be the perfect time to shed zadina, perron, and one of veleno or suter (i'd prefer to keep suter because his PK has been perfect for what we need, but veleno is going to be cheaper I think), and then add big names that can score to the team.

Sitting back this year would be a problem, long-term wise. We don't want to continue to be bad because then that becomes the culture, i.e. Buffalo, Arizona. Once the culture changes, it's hard to get it back. Getting Seider/Larkin/Raymond/ and a couple more of our young players to get playoff experience (regardless if it is a 1st round exit for this coming year) would be astronomically better than missing out again and having nothing to show from it.

Edit: @lilidk I may have misunderstood your comment to be negative for some reason. Re-reading it back, it seems like you agree...So, if that is what you mean, then this post is for the people on here that are against my original comment. My bad lol.

 

[lilidk]

Right...that is why having one more bad year, during the "usual third year big improvement" would be detrimental in the grand scheme of things, no?

This would be the perfect time to shed zadina, perron, and one of veleno or suter (i'd prefer to keep suter because his PK has been perfect for what we need, but veleno is going to be cheaper I think), and then add big names that can score to the team.

Sitting back this year would be a problem, long-term wise. We don't want to continue to be bad because then that becomes the culture, i.e. Buffalo, Arizona. Once the culture changes, it's hard to get it back. Getting Seider/Larkin/Raymond/ and a couple more of our young players to get playoff experience (regardless if it is a 1st round exit for this coming year) would be astronomically better than missing out again and having nothing to show from it.

Edit: @lilidk I may have misunderstood your comment to be negative for some reason. Re-reading it back, it seems like you agree...So, if that is what you mean, then this post is for the people on here that are against my original comment. My bad lol.

I am only against trading away our first 2 picks and our future core players

 

[Snuggs]

Convo got weird. Started out Lindholm for 2 1st rdp's and Berggren. ( Fair deal likely both ways... )

Then got dumbed down to not paying Lindholm, and not even moving off the 9th overall pick.

Lets clue people in, you aren't getting anyone good offering what "you're" comfortable with.(most of the time) People are cheap around here. No one is getting Elias Lindholm for essentially the same thing as Hronek was traded for. Lindholms better, he'll cost more. I don't think it's a wild statement.

If Wings keep collecting some more Kubaliks/Fabbri's/Suters they'll keep missing the playoffs, unless you hit a few homeruns in the draft, and if you don't hit in the draft these next couple up coming drafts, we're gonna watch Seider walk/test UFA. (Anyone will pay him if he test the market) Then start all over.

 

[Retire91]

I don't feel the urgency for a 2C we still have players developing so no need to lock in a 6-7 million dollar player that is just going to get passed because if our draftees don't pass them we are doomed anyway. If Kasper doesn't turn into at least a 2C I think we are pretty hosed. Hopefully we are heck'n lucky and get a 1A 1B thing going. Next season is still a throw away season.

If we could somehow work a deal to move up in the draft it would be a huge risk to put so many eggs in one basket but I think I could be down for that. It's just so rare anyone let's go of a top 5 pick the chances are almost 0. But I personally don't feel comfortable that our prospect pool is broad enough to consolidate so many picks into a trade.

 

[Oddbob]

Mo was on pace for like a -33 before Chiarot got yanked from his pairing round Christmas time. Peeke is the only guy that can defend on a really bad team so he got all the hard minutes (especially after Gavrikov got traded).

Seider plays more minutes and is much better.

 

[norrisnick]

Seider plays more minutes and is much better.

Only because of PP time and no one is saying he isn't.

Peeke had more ES and PK ice time this season.

I'm just saying he'd be a really good option to shore up the top 4 as a defensive-minded right-handed #4.

 

[Oddbob]

Only because of PP time and no one is saying he isn't.

Peeke had more ES and PK ice time this season.

I'm just saying he'd be a really good option to shore up the top 4 as a defensive-minded right-handed #4.

Hronek played 23+ minutes a night on our really bad team and gets flak for bad defence but he put up more pts with only slightly worse minus/game than this supposed good at defence defender.

 

[norrisnick]

Hronek played 23+ minutes a night on our really bad team and gets flak for bad defence but he put up more pts with only slightly worse minus/game than this supposed good at defence defender.

What does putting up points have to do with getting flak for bad defense?

Give Peeke Olli Maatta as a partner and a 1st pairing ahead of him and his stats would have looked better as well.

 

[Oddbob]

What does putting up points have to do with getting flak for bad defense?

Give Peeke Olli Maatta as a partner and a 1st pairing ahead of him and his stats would have looked better as well.

It is more the point that Hronek put up more pts with the similar defensive numbers for the most part. So what makes Peeke so valuable? I wasn't talking about this season Hronek, I was talking about his -38 season where he logged 2 more minutes a night than Peeke has to date, while putting up better numbers.

 

[norrisnick]

It is more the point that Hronek put up more pts with the similar defensive numbers for the most part. So what makes Peeke so valuable? I wasn't talking about this season Hronek, I was talking about his -38 season where he logged 2 more minutes a night than Peeke has to date, while putting up better numbers.

I don't care if Peeke puts up 0 points. What makes Peeke valuable is he is a defensively sound RHD (regardless of your opinion on +/- stats on a team like Columbus) locked in at $2.75M for 3 more years. And I'm not talking about any more than a 2nd rounder or something.

 

[Oddbob]

I don't care if Peeke puts up 0 points. What makes Peeke valuable is he is a defensively sound RHD (regardless of your opinion on +/- stats on a team like Columbus) locked in at $2.75M for 3 more years. And I'm not talking about any more than a 2nd rounder or something.

That is what I am getting at though. What makes him so defensively sound? His stats are no better than many of the defenceman we have had in any of the past 5 or so seasons.

 

[norrisnick]

That is what I am getting at though. What makes him so defensively sound? His stats are no better than many of the defenceman we have had in any of the past 5 or so seasons.

A lot of that is a function of being the assigned stopper on a bad team. Peeke's deployment is very similar to Seider's (minus the complete lack of PP time). He faces the toughest assignments with almost no offensive zone starts. Advanced metric wise he's not horrific given the state of the team he's playing for and not getting any offensive opps.

It's no different really than the Maatta acquisition. Just on the other side.

 

[Reddwit]

I don't feel the urgency for a 2C we still have players developing so no need to lock in a 6-7 million dollar player that is just going to get passed because if our draftees don't pass them we are doomed anyway. If Kasper doesn't turn into at least a 2C I think we are pretty hosed. Hopefully we are heck'n lucky and get a 1A 1B thing going. Next season is still a throw away season.

If we could somehow work a deal to move up in the draft it would be a huge risk to put so many eggs in one basket but I think I could be down for that. It's just so rare anyone let's go of a top 5 pick the chances are almost 0. But I personally don't feel comfortable that our prospect pool is broad enough to consolidate so many picks into a trade.

You admit that if Kasper doesn’t turn into a 2C, we’re hosed, but you also don’t feel the urgency for a 2C?

As it stands, Kasper and whoever we draft at 9 this year could be 4-5 years out from being top six players, if ever. And the crazy thing is, even if both Kasper and, for example, Leonard or Benson, hit their ceilings, it wouldn’t even give us a stacked offense - we’d just finally have a fully legitimate top six. So all signs point to needing improvement from other avenues outside of the draft. And it absolutely makes the most sense to trade for a center, where we are weakest, because centers can almost always seamlessly transition to wing. We’re at no risk of having too many talented top six centers that can’t be shifted to wing if need be.

 

[lilidk]

I don't feel the urgency for a 2C we still have players developing so no need to lock in a 6-7 million dollar player that is just going to get passed because if our draftees don't pass them we are doomed anyway. If Kasper doesn't turn into at least a 2C I think we are pretty hosed. Hopefully we are heck'n lucky and get a 1A 1B thing going. Next season is still a throw away season.

If we could somehow work a deal to move up in the draft it would be a huge risk to put so many eggs in one basket but I think I could be down for that. It's just so rare anyone let's go of a top 5 pick the chances are almost 0. But I personally don't feel comfortable that our prospect pool is broad enough to consolidate so many picks into a trade.

Kasper capable to be first line center, he doesn't have great hands, but everything else is very good, his position, his skating , his hard work. He needs to have good wingers and this draft could be full of those.

You admit that if Kasper doesn’t turn into a 2C, we’re hosed, but you also don’t feel the urgency for a 2C?

As it stands, Kasper and whoever we draft at 9 this year could be 4-5 years out from being top six players, if ever. And the crazy thing is, even if both Kasper and, for example, Leonard or Benson, hit their ceilings, it wouldn’t even give us a stacked offense - we’d just finally have a fully legitimate top six. So all signs point to needing improvement from other avenues outside of the draft. And it absolutely makes the most sense to trade for a center, where we are weakest, because centers can almost always seamlessly transition to wing. We’re at no risk of having too many talented top six centers that can’t be shifted to wing if need be.

Trade for center, it will cost you arm and hand. Do we have those commodities, not yet.

 

[Retire91]

You admit that if Kasper doesn’t turn into a 2C, we’re hosed, but you also don’t feel the urgency for a 2C?

As it stands, Kasper and whoever we draft at 9 this year could be 4-5 years out from being top six players, if ever. And the crazy thing is, even if both Kasper and, for example, Leonard or Benson, hit their ceilings, it wouldn’t even give us a stacked offense - we’d just finally have a fully legitimate top six. So all signs point to needing improvement from other avenues outside of the draft. And it absolutely makes the most sense to trade for a center, where we are weakest, because centers can almost always seamlessly transition to wing. We’re at no risk of having too many talented top six centers that can’t be shifted to wing if need be.

This was not a normal rebuild, we were always going to have to wait for development. It would be silly to trade away your developing assets for a shot in the arm right now thereby giving up the developing players you would eventually need to surround the guy you traded for. It's like being hungry and cooking your arm. Yes we need a 2C but there is no logic in making a lateral or even backward move for someone when we are not competitive now anyways and carry their contract into later seasons risking what kind of player they might turn into (Neilson, Weiss). These are still throw away development seasons we have time to see what happens with Kasper and in parallel Cossa, Edvinson. We need a continued pipeline of talent with our meager handful of assets not a consolidation for one serviceable player when our window is not even open yet.

We flat out 'win' a trade yeah that is different, but trade speculation on winning to that degree is mostly just hyperbull. Can't predict a trade we would win to the degree we would need to make trade for a 2C worth it.