Trade Ideas

[lilidk]

The theory is that a big trade should get us to the playoffs.

That selloff and tank at the end of last season made me think Yzerman has different ideas

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

There's no reason to make big trades if we are not going to make playoffs anyway. One more bad year will help in the long run.

I'd agree there's no reason to trade all our firsts away in big trades, however, I think having so many extra picks, on top of the ridiculous number we've had the last three drafts, means we should now be open to moving at least one, ideally NYI pick, to start acquiring more proven NHL young talent

That selloff and tank at the end of last season made me think Yzerman has different ideas

I think SY felt the team was not talented enough

I would hope that means he wants the team too be more talented

 

[norrisnick]

That selloff and tank at the end of last season made me think Yzerman has different ideas

Not having Bertuzzi, Hronek, or Vrana in your future plans doesn't really have any bearing on the plans for the team as a whole. Keeping them around would just slow down the team building. If there is a move available, it should be made. That more than anything determines the future. You can want to add key pieces, but if the key pieces aren't available at the price you are able to pay... then you wait and build slower.

There are enough teams at crossroads right now, where aggressive moves can be made. We have a ton of draft capital to toss around.

 

[Kibe]

I think guys like Peeke and Laughton would be ideal targets. Won't handcuff us from signing the future core long term and probably won't cost us 1st rounders.

41OA + 24 3rd for Peeke

Fabbri+42OA+43OA for Laughton

Something like that. Would it be enough?

Ras/Kubalik - Larkin - Perron
Laughton - Kasper - Raymond
Ras/Kubalik - Copp - Berggren
Zadina - Veleno - Chiasson
Czarnik, Luff

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Peeke
Määttä - Chiarot
Oesterle

Husso
UFA

Yes, still not a great team. But we keep all first rounders, and have a LOT of cap space in the near future so we can sign Mo, Ray, Ed and Kasper to long term deals that should be team friendly in a couple of years when we would start to rise.

 

[raymond23]

I think guys like Peeke and Laughton would be ideal targets. Won't handcuff us from signing the future core long term and probably won't cost us 1st rounders.

41OA + 24 3rd for Peeke

Fabbri+42OA+43OA for Laughton

Something like that. Would it be enough?

Ras/Kubalik - Larkin - Perron
Laughton - Kasper - Raymond
Ras/Kubalik - Copp - Berggren
Zadina - Veleno - Chiasson
Czarnik, Luff

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Peeke
Määttä - Chiarot
Oesterle

Husso
UFA

Yes, still not a great team. But we keep all first rounders, and have a LOT of cap space in the near future so we can sign Mo, Ray, Ed and Kasper to long term deals that should be team friendly in a couple of years when we would start to rise.

Trading all of those great picks for middling players? No thanks

 

[Kibe]

Trading all of those great picks for middling players? No thanks

We still keep the best picks, and those players have ideal contracts.

 

[norrisnick]

Trading all of those great picks for middling players? No thanks

I agree regarding Laughton. But a 2nd to shore up the 2nd pairing RHD at $2.75M for the next 3 years? I do that easily.

 

[K1900L]

9M is not top 10 centerman money. And if it is now, it won't be in a year.

Hughes and Stützle are making $8M/$8.35M and they are signed for the majority of their prime years. I'm pretty comfortable that they will be seen as top 10 centermen in the 2020/early 30s, or at least borderline so.
Free agents will of course get paid more than their actual worth. You also won't be able to sign a top 3 centerman for this money, but I'm pretty sure that players I would rank 7-10 are in that ~$9M area at best.
And considering how the superstar centermen have recently been doing in the playoffs and looking at the Toronto situation especially, I think this was a big blow to the 'overpay your superstars before they have won something' - strategy of gms who want to build competitive teams, rising salary cap not having too much of an impact after all.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Hughes and Stützle are making $8M/$8.35M and they are signed for the majority of their prime years. I'm pretty comfortable that they will be seen as top 10 centermen in the 2020/early 30s, or at least borderline so.
Free agents will of course get paid more than their actual worth. You also won't be able to sign a top 3 centerman for this money, but I'm pretty sure that players I would rank 7-10 are in that ~$9M area at best.
And considering how the superstar centermen have recently been doing in the playoffs and looking at the Toronto situation especially, I think this was a big blow to the 'overpay your superstars before they have won something' - strategy of gms who want to build competitive teams, rising salary cap not having too much of an impact after all.

What.

 

[Kibe]

I agree regarding Laughton. But a 2nd to shore up the 2nd pairing RHD at $2.75M for the next 3 years? I do that easily.

Maybe remove a pick from the Laughton trade?

 

[ricky0034]

What.

you should pay superstar centers early to get good deals on them like Hughes and Stutzle but also you should avoid paying them before they've thoroughly proven themselves because Toronto hasn't been doing well in the Playoffs

makes perfect sense

 

[norrisnick]

Maybe remove a pick from the Laughton trade?

The problem with Laughton is he feasts on us. 10% of his career goals are against us, so we have an inflated view of him. I don't think he's as good against everyone else.

 

[norrisnick]

you should pay superstar centers early to get good deals on them like Hughes and Stutzle but also you should avoid paying them before they've thoroughly proven themselves because Toronto hasn't been doing well in the Playoffs

makes perfect sense

If Matthews and Marner had signed max length deals at $9M vs bridges at $11M+ there would be much less criticism hurled their way. Problem is they could point at their teammate making $11M saying we're better.

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with negotiating what you feel you're worth. Trick is to then deliver at that price point.

 

[ricky0034]

If Matthews and Marner had signed max length deals at $9M vs bridges at $11M+ there would be much less criticism hurled their way. Problem is they could point at their teammate making $11M saying we're better.

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with negotiating what you feel you're worth. Trick is to then deliver at that price point.

Toronto only got a single UFA year out of Matthews for that deal

that's just crazy to think about, basically just giving him everything he could realistically want in negotations with essentially nothing in return

usually these deals straight out of ELCs buy the team 4-5 UFA years right in their prime instead of just 1(Hughes,Stutzle,McDavid,Eichel, Draisaitl for example all bought 4-5 UFA years)

 

[norrisnick]

Toronto only got a single UFA year out of Matthews for that deal

that's just crazy to think about, basically just giving him everything he could realistically want in negotations with essentially nothing in return

usually these deals straight out of UFA buy the team 4-5 UFA years right in their prime instead of just 1(Hughes,Stutzle,McDavid,Eichel, Draisaitl for example all bought 4-5 UFA years)

The PA complained about Dubas and Matthews sharing representation but it probably should have been the Leafs!

 

[Kibe]

Since people didn't like my Laughton and Peeke idea, another one would be trading for a big fish like Lindholm. Now obviously that would give us a better player, a true top6 C. But instead of a warm body and 2nd round picks you are now moving a good young player and 1st round picks. I think extended Lindholm would cost something like Berggren and both 24 1st rounders, and i'm just not sure we are ready for a move like this. Still it would be better than giving big UFA contracts to guys like Killorn, Dumba or Mayfield.

 

[Snuggs]

Since people didn't like my Laughton and Peeke idea, another one would be trading for a big fish like Lindholm. Now obviously that would give us a better player, a true top6 C. But instead of a warm body and 2nd round picks you are now moving a good young player and 1st round picks. I think extended Lindholm would cost something like Berggren and both 24 1st rounders, and i'm just not sure we are ready for a move like this. Still it would be better than giving big UFA contracts to guys like Killorn, Dumba or Mayfield.

Lots of people have brought up Lindholm and honestly, he seems the mostly likely and best option, imo.

West-coast team helps.

I think your offer is more than sufficient. Imo, it'll cost a prospect or two plus a 1st round pick*(not both). Either way though, I'd still do your deal with Berggren plus both 1st rdp's this year.

Larkin/Lindholm/Copp/Kasper/Rasmussen is something I'm really comfortable building a core with this collection of centers on a given night.

Winger isn't done but it's easier to find good wingers(imo) vs good centermen. Could sign a guy like Jason Zucker on a short-term contract while waiting for young bloods to rise within organization ranks.

 

[Hoog]

Would #17, 2024 3rd round, Berrgy, and Aljo get the deal done for Lindholm? I agree he is the best fit for us.

 

[norrisnick]

Since people didn't like my Laughton and Peeke idea, another one would be trading for a big fish like Lindholm. Now obviously that would give us a better player, a true top6 C. But instead of a warm body and 2nd round picks you are now moving a good young player and 1st round picks. I think extended Lindholm would cost something like Berggren and both 24 1st rounders, and i'm just not sure we are ready for a move like this. Still it would be better than giving big UFA contracts to guys like Killorn, Dumba or Mayfield.

Peeke and Lindholm (barring an even bigger fish forward acquisition like a Keller) would be ideal IMO. Two 1sts + Berggren is a bit rich. I'd see if maybe Veleno interests them more with his center capabilities. Or hell, maybe a Fabbri if they feel they want someone slightly more established.

Would #17, 2024 3rd round, Berrgy, and Aljo get the deal done for Lindholm? I agree he is the best fit for us.

I should think so, as that's better than the Horvat trade. Granted Lindholm has another year.

 

[Kibe]

Lots of people have brought up Lindholm and honestly, he seems the mostly likely and best option, imo.

West-coast team helps.

I think your offer is more than sufficient. Imo, it'll cost a prospect or two plus a 1st round pick*(not both). Either way though, I'd still do your deal with Berggren plus both 1st rdp's this year.

Larkin/Lindholm/Copp/Kasper/Rasmussen is something I'm really comfortable building a core with this collection of centers on a given night.

Winger isn't done but it's easier to find good wingers(imo) vs good centermen. Could sign a guy like Jason Zucker on a short-term contract while waiting for young bloods to rise within organization ranks.

First rounders next year not this.

 

[Kibe]

Peeke and Lindholm (barring an even bigger fish forward acquisition like a Keller) would be ideal IMO. Two 1sts + Berggren is a bit rich. I'd see if maybe Veleno interests them more with his center capabilities. Or hell, maybe a Fabbri if they feel they want someone slightly more established.


I should think so, as that's better than the Horvat trade. Granted Lindholm has another year.

Yeah i'd rather do Fabbri + 17OA + one of 24 1st rounders if that's enough.

 

[norrisnick]

Yeah i'd rather do Fabbri + 17OA + one of 24 1st rounders if that's enough.

Lindholm better f***ing be Nazem Kadri'd in at that price point.

 

[Kibe]

Lindholm better f***ing be Nazem Kadri'd in at that price point.

Just saying i would do it rather than the Berggren+24 1stX2 i originally proposed. So basically swapping one of the 24 picks to a more valuable 23 17OA in order to keep Berggren. Don't think Fabbri really has much value at all. Not sure what you mean by Nazem Kadri'd, but if you mean extended, then yes it would need to be included. I think that could make it tricky with the 23 pick tho.

And yeah if Lindholm becomes available, i think that's the price range, as there would be many interested teams.

 

[norrisnick]

Just saying i would do it rather than the Berggren+24 1stX2 i originally proposed. So basically swapping one of the 24 picks to a more valuable 23 17OA in order to keep Berggren. Don't think Fabbri really has much value at all. Not sure what you mean by Nazem Kadri'd, but if you mean extended, then yes it would need to be included. I think that could make it tricky with the 23 pick tho.

And yeah if Lindholm becomes available, i think that's the price range, as there would be many interested teams.

Extended in the 7s, yes. I'd love to avoid our 2C being in the 8s.

 

[Kibe]

Extended in the 7s, yes. I'd love to avoid our 2C being in the 8s.

That's why my first option was acquiring cheaper players even when they're not as good. I think we have a 2C in Kasper and/or 9OA. I know people are tired of the rebuild, but imo the time is not now. We are still few years away.