Trade Ideas

[NickH8]

Then add another 1st.

Just secure the better player.

Lemme guess, you guys would have preferred saving the extra 1st rounder traded for Shanahan and we got Hull for just Primeau and Coffey in '96 instead?

The point is paying 3 1sts for Connor is a lot different than paying 1 1st for Debrincat. If you're paying 3 1sts for Connor you damn well better think he's THE piece to get us into contention. Trading just one for Debrincat allows you to add scoring without mortgaging the pipeline and allowing us to keep looking for foundational pieces in the draft.

 

[Big Ed]

The rumored deal for Dubois is Vilardi + Iafallo, so why then would they turn around and trade a player that hasn't asked for a trade for draft picks? It's clear they're not trying to rebuild.

 

[Frk It]

I don't expect us, but till high priority parts are in place there's literally no reason to trade for filler parts that waste chances of those high priority parts being filled (either via draft or trade).

Till our center depth is fixed and our defense is fixed, who really gives a rats ass about wingers?

When has Detroit ever really cared about trading for wingers? They do not matter if you have the center locked down and defense locked down.

OK well you are going to have to expand on these thoughts.

Do you think Larkin is a decent enough 1C? Should we be trying to trade for a 1B/2C center like Lindholm or PLD? Do you think Kasper can be a 2C in time?

And then what about the blue line?

 

[norrisnick]

The point is paying 3 1sts for Connor is a lot different than paying 1 1st for Debrincat. If you're paying 3 1sts for Connor you damn well better think he's THE piece to get us into contention. Trading just one for Debrincat allows you to add scoring without mortgaging the pipeline and allowing us to keep looking for foundational pieces in the draft.

He's certainly much closer to being THE piece than DeBrincat is. And one key aspect of trading for DeBrincat and his contract ask is that now you've got a small winger you have to try and accommodate in your top 6 when looking at any other additions. And you know his contract will come with an NTC, so good luck moving him when the better option comes along.

 

[DTR]

There has been zero reporting that Connor is available, so I cannot imagine a scenario where he is traded. The Jets historically have struggled getting star players to stay long term in Winnipeg and now people think they will trade a guy that did commit long term? It’s just not realistic.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I don't expect us, but till high priority parts are in place there's literally no reason to trade for filler parts that waste chances of those high priority parts being filled (either via draft or trade).

Till our center depth is fixed and our defense is fixed, who really gives a rats ass about wingers?

When has Detroit ever really cared about trading for wingers? They do not matter if you have the center locked down and defense locked down.

Our 2024 1st for DeBrincat, our 2023 17 OA for Lindholm. Sign a RHD for the third pair. Wait 2 years for Kasper and Wallinder to develop.

All the holes are filled and you still have our #9 pick and the BOS '24 coming in, except now you have a second line of Lindholm-DeBrincat tearing other teams apart in 2025 with an average age under 30 for the line. If you want a big winger put Rasmussen with them, or Soderblom in 2024 if he develops well.

You have a C group of Larkin/Lindholm/Copp/Kasper, all defensively responsible scoring Cs. If possible you do what it takes to get Pettersson if he becomes available.

You aren't building a team through the draft and waiting for "better players to become available" is dumb because once the cap starts going up those players aren't going to be available any more.

 

[Hen Kolland]

He's certainly much closer to being THE piece than DeBrincat is. And one key aspect of trading for DeBrincat and his contract ask is that now you've got a small winger you have to try and accommodate in your top 6 when looking at any other additions. And you know his contract will come with an NTC, so good luck moving him when the better option comes along.

Everyone gets that you don't like DeBrincat. You are incapable of seeing the trade go right, and rather than just shutting up and carrying on with your day, you beat the dead horse over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

People who want to make the deal acknowledge the risk that it doesn't work, but even if it's a minor success and he's a perennial 30+ goal scorer in Detroit, how many instances of a better player coming along that we can't support seem likely?

And with the rumored cost possibly not even requiring a first round pick, what actually is the risk?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I am not a fan of adding Killorn either, but if we do add him, I like him with Larkin and Cat way more than Kubalik.

With Kubalik, you are just doubling up another sniper type, who is only ok defensivley. With Killorn, you are getting a much grittier player who will do a much better job of swating the flies off Larkin and Cat and plays a much better defensive game to help out Cat.

Killorn is a good veteran guy and an Yzerman guy. We don't need him to be 1st line. But 2nd and 3rd line duty? He'd be a great guy to have next to Kasper.

 

[norrisnick]

Everyone gets that you don't like DeBrincat. You are incapable of seeing the trade go right, and rather than just shutting up and carrying on with your day, you beat the dead horse over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

People who want to make the deal acknowledge the risk that it doesn't work, but even if it's a minor success and he's a perennial 30+ goal scorer in Detroit, how many instances of a better player coming along that we can't support seem likely?

And with the rumored cost possibly not even requiring a first round pick, what actually is the risk?

I promise to stop talking about DeBrincat if everyone else does.

Being stuck with a meh player at $8M+ for term. That's the risk.

 

[Henkka]

He's certainly much closer to being THE piece than DeBrincat is. And one key aspect of trading for DeBrincat and his contract ask is that now you've got a small winger you have to try and accommodate in your top 6 when looking at any other additions. And you know his contract will come with an NTC, so good luck moving him when the better option comes along.

What's so wrong with small wingers?

Tampa had them their offence full on Cup wins. Red Wings offence is already bigger even after adding DeBrincat.

Some 5'9 guy just won Conn Smythe.

We have size and we can add size alonside DeBrincat, if needed. It's just one piece in the puzzle.

Open your eyes for reality.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

And with the rumored cost possibly not even requiring a first round pick, what actually is the risk?

1. Going forward, the Wings likely have no shot at top-5 picks, or even top-10 picks, without further dismantling the roster.

2. The cap next year is 83.5 million and will likely be at 100 million by the end of any 8 year contract. If that is the case third liners will be making 5-6 million/season.

3. The odds of drafting someone who will be more than a warm body at the NHL level after the 10OA pick is, at most, 50%.

4. Next year's UFA pool is not much better than this year's, and with the cap going back up we will go back to a scenario where top players realistically don't hit free agency. Austin Matthews/Elias Pettersson/Mitch Marner/etc level guys aren't going to be hitting the market.

5. Multiple teams are imploding this summer. This will not occur again.

I don't understand the impetus for Wings fans to sit on their hands when there is literally no better scenario coming down the pipes.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I promise to stop talking about DeBrincat if everyone else does.

Being stuck with a meh player at $8M+ for term. That's the risk.

Your entire point is "I wouldn't take him regardless of cost" and that's it. So you could try ignoring it, and let other people who are engaging in a discussion about bringing him in do so without you letting us know every single time how shitty you think DeBrincat is.

There is no risk because there is no cap constraint we are maneuvering around. A perennial 30 goal scorer gets paid $8 million per, sorry if you are afraid of how this business works.

 

[norrisnick]

What's so wrong with small wingers?

Tampa had them their offence full on Cup wins. Red Wings offence is already bigger even after adding DeBrincat.

Some 5'9 guy just won Conn Smythe.

We have size and we can add size alonside DeBrincat, if needed. It's just one piece in the puzzle.

Open your eyes for reality.

Point and Kucherov are lightyears ahead of DeBrincat. If your short guys are that good, fine.

Also Vegas had a ton of size in their top 6 with Eichel, Stone, Barbashev. Stephenson. The only way we have a guy over 200lb in the top 6 is if Rasmussen is up there, and I'd rather not.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Your entire point is "I wouldn't take him regardless of cost" and that's it. So you could try ignoring it, and let other people who are engaging in a discussion about bringing him in do so without you letting us know every single time how shitty you think DeBrincat is.

There is no risk because there is no cap constraint we are maneuvering around. A perennial 30 goal scorer gets paid $8 million per, sorry if you are afraid of how this business works.

I'm starting to think DeBrincat ran over @norrisnick 's dog at the same time Hronek ran over Ogee's.

 

[Oddbob]

You appear to rarely agree with anyone here.

I agree with plenty of people here. I don't agree with yahoo as a source means I don't agree with anyone? If you took a poll on here, asking if yahoo is a good sports source, it would be overwhelmingly in favour against it.

 

[norrisnick]

Your entire point is "I wouldn't take him regardless of cost" and that's it. So you could try ignoring it, and let other people who are engaging in a discussion about bringing him in do so without you letting us know every single time how shitty you think DeBrincat is.

There is no risk because there is no cap constraint we are maneuvering around. A perennial 30 goal scorer gets paid $8 million per, sorry if you are afraid of how this business works.

I don't tell you your points, please don't try and tell me mine.

 

[dekelikekocur]

Our 2024 1st for DeBrincat, our 2023 17 OA for Lindholm. Sign a RHD for the third pair. Wait 2 years for Kasper and Wallinder to develop.

All the holes are filled and you still have our #9 pick and the BOS '24 coming in, except now you have a second line of Lindholm-DeBrincat tearing other teams apart in 2025 with an average age under 30 for the line. If you want a big winger put Rasmussen with them, or Soderblom in 2024 if he develops well.

You have a C group of Larkin/Lindholm/Copp/Kasper, all defensively responsible scoring Cs. If possible you do what it takes to get Pettersson if he becomes available.

You aren't building a team through the draft and waiting for "better players to become available" is dumb because once the cap starts going up those players aren't going to be available any more.

And the cupboards are less stocked. Counter, we continue to draft, we continue to develop, and in a year or two (also better players potentially available than currently) we address trading to fill the gaps. Why spend capital now when it isn't going to change anything and instead we can potentially gain something better under longer control? As far as Lindholm specifically, I'm not opposed to him but I'd rather just see if Kasper is that 2C we're hoping or even a 1A/1B with Larkin type scenario.

OK well you are going to have to expand on these thoughts.

Do you think Larkin is a decent enough 1C? Should we be trying to trade for a 1B/2C center like Lindholm or PLD? Do you think Kasper can be a 2C in time?

And then what about the blue line?

I think Larkin is a fine C, I think for him to maintain that role we need someone of similar caliber and hoping that Kasper is that player. I don't think PLD would go over well in Detroit, he's 2 for 2 for wanting to be traded off teams he's been associated with at this point and I don't think that's worth the risk. Lindholm I think is pushing the upper age part of the core too far, truthfully, I wish Larkin was 2 years younger but he's the hometown kid, captain and seems to be a good leader.

Verhaeghe is the type of mold I'd like to see us going after, showing progress every year, feisty, shooter, all over the ice. Not sure what current prospects/elc/RFA players fit that mold and subsequently cost but if we're shelling out assets, I'd rather see us go that route. As far as fixing our defense, some sort of shuttle bus to the sun for Chiarot and finding Detroit's version of Cernak or like a Carlo-lite (Which we may have in the pipeline already).

 

[Oddbob]

Please get us PLD or Lindholm Steve, come on. Need Larkin/Lindholm or Larkin/PLD in my life.

PLD is one of those guys who I absolutely DO NOT WANT! He seems very me oriented and is now on 2 straight teams to start his career where he just had to leave.

 

[Oddbob]

I think Kubalik stays with Larkin after his WC performance and how he played last year. He kept getting jerked around because Bert could only produce with Larkin.

That's also the reason why we desperately need a real 2c. If we don't trade for Lindholm I think we'll sign O'Reilly to a short term just to hold the spot for Kasper.

I'd love to see a Berggren-Lindholm-Raymond second line, but damn would it be tiny on the wings.

Can't see it. One thing that was very noticeable was how he kept dropping down the lineup and his ice time went down as the season went. I don't think Lalonde is a fan of him, even with him saying we need goal scorers. He had that great start with Larkin, and then for whatever reason Kubalik and Larkin were split for a large chunk in the middle, then sporadically back together. I definitely worry about Lalonde as far as offence and pairings go.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

And the cupboards are less stocked. Counter, we continue to draft, we continue to develop, and in a year or two (also better players potentially available than currently) we address trading to fill the gaps. Why spend capital now when it isn't going to change anything and instead we can potentially gain something better under longer control? As far as Lindholm specifically, I'm not opposed to him but I'd rather just see if Kasper is that 2C we're hoping or even a 1A/1B with Larkin type scenario.

Here's the problem. Our draft position is going to be bad going forward and there aren't going to be better players available. 50% hit rate or worse in the spots we will be picking. Teams don't trade young top-line centers and top-line wingers unless they are literally forced to, like WPG, CGY, and OTT are doing right now. Young top-line centers and top-line wingers don't sign with bad teams in bad cities.

Do you want to be 2005 to 2023 Calgary? Beause this is how you end up with 2005 to 2023 Calgary. At the very least CI and SY need to show that they are making a good faith effort to build a winning team before anyone of value will even look at coming here.

 

[Oddbob]

Just throwing it out there to see how people react...

Filip Forsberg

for

9OA

sources say trotz has one big move left he is working on......I am honestly considering loving the play. thots?

He doesn't fit the age group of this team. 21-Larkin and not really older is the group.

 

[DamonDRW]

Hey guys, what's about getting Ehlers from the Jets. When I watch him he always makes plays, really speedy and creative wing. It seems he is not a hot commodity as well.

At least I like him way more than DeBrincat and for some reason think he will be a more impactful addition.

 

[dekelikekocur]

The rebuild started when we were picking Michael Rasmussen in the top 10. The rebuild started when we started accumulating draft picks for the 2018 draft. Steve's timeline didn't start, but don't get it twisted, the rebuild has been going on.

We don't have the answers in the pipeline. We aren't getting all the answers in the draft class. We aren't getting lottery luck to make life easy on us. This is the classic, you make your own luck situation. And we haven't even made an attempt yet.

The Holland years simply do not matter. Outside of Larkin there really isn't anything that came of it worth a damn. Yzerman has the long term picture and plan, Holland didn't have shit.

You don't know what we have in the pipeline at this point as it's still all coming along. Mazur is already showing promise among others. Till we see more of them we really don't know.

No one said we were going to get all the answers at the draft, what I'm saying and others have said, until we fill the high priority spots, you don't bother with low priority. Hell, the best winger Detroit has had in a long time was Hossa, and that was a UFA signing. I don't remember the last time we traded for a meaningful winger. It's never a priority as centers can be pushed to wing but the opposite is lot less likely.

Here's the problem. Our draft position is going to be bad going forward and there aren't going to be better players available. 50% hit rate or worse in the spots we will be picking. Teams don't trade young top-line centers and top-line wingers unless they are literally forced to, like WPG, CGY, and OTT are doing right now. Young top-line centers and top-line wingers don't sign with bad teams in bad cities.

Do you want to be 2005 to 2023 Calgary? Beause this is how you end up with 2005 to 2023 Calgary. At the very least CI and SY need to show that they are making a good faith effort to build a winning team before anyone of value will even look at coming here.

And instead you're lobbying that we be the 2022-2023 Ottawa Senators and trade for crap and still miss the playoffs.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I don't tell you your points, please don't try and tell me mine.

Oh I am absolutely terrified about you paraphrasing my point of "why not, he's a multiple 40+ goal scorer" back to me. Anyone with a second grade reading level on this site in the past 10 days could probably recite your feelings towards a DeBrincat trade from memory. We get it, you don't like it.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

And instead you're lobbying that we be the 2022-2023 Ottawa Senators and trade for crap and still miss the playoffs.

How many times does it need to be explained to you that NHL teams can make more than one acquisition a decade?

When asked what kind of players you wanted on the Wings on the trade board you literally spouted a list of Hall of Fame centers from 30 years ago. I don't think you really even know what you want from them except for magically drafting Yzerman and Fedorov again.