Trade Ideas

[Oddbob]

ELC is underpayment, that is why the team needs to draft well. That and getting discounts from players like Boston always does.



Zadina's contract matters because of the structure, at $2.7M QO, he's basically priced himself off the team. Fabbri is probably gone if he doesn't just retire, his knees just can't hold up.

Whether or not Copp and Chiarot's contracts matter depends on how well Kasper and this year's picks do. If the team is competitive in 2025, then those contracts hurt.

QO's mean nothing. If he is nowhere near 2.7 in worth at that point, than you just don't QO him. If he is, than good you have a decent player left.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I've got fun facts! You like fun facts?

'19-'20 - '21-'22 Konecny outscored Giroux on Philly 147 to 138
'22-'23 - Giroux outscored DeBrincat on Ottawa 79 to 66

Konecny outscored an aging, half-dead Claude Giroux, who was happy to get out of Philly, while DBC got dumped to one of the worst-run franchises in the NHL and responded with two bad seasons (that still would have had him be one of our three best forwards). Giroux also got to play center between Stutzle and Tkachuk while DeBrincat spent 80% of his time with Batherson, who was a fourth round pick and a career .6 ppg player before he played with DeBrincat.

The fact DBC has already told OTT to get bent shows how he feels about that team and his place on it. He's a two-time 40 goal scorer whose been relegated to the second line with linemates who are not exactly scoring line material. Batherson jumping to a ppg player when stapled to DBC says more about DBC than it does about Batherson.

Context matters.

 

[Oddbob]

I got mad one time. Someone said Joakim Andersson was better than Luke Glendening and I nearly lost my shit!

But he was better, you know that right?

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I've got fun facts! You like fun facts?

'19-'20 - '21-'22 Konecny outscored Giroux on Philly 147 to 138
'22-'23 - Giroux outscored DeBrincat on Ottawa 79 to 66

Oh good lord.

 

[norrisnick]

Konecny outscored an aging, half-dead Claude Giroux, who was happy to get out of Philly, while DBC got dumped to one of the worst-run franchises in the NHL and responded with two bad seasons (that still would have had him be one of our three best forwards). Giroux also got to play center between Stutzle and Tkachuk while DeBrincat spent 80% of his time with Batherson, who was a fourth round pick and a career .6 ppg player before he played with DeBrincat.

The fact DBC has already told OTT to get bent shows how he feels about that team and his place on it. He's a two-time 40 goal scorer whose been relegated to the second line with linemates who are not exactly scoring line material. Batherson jumping to a ppg player when stapled to DBC says more about DBC than it does about Batherson.

Context matters.

Exactly. Now take Konecny's surroundings and compare them to what DeBrincat has played in. Then compare that to what the Wings are.

A point of reference.

If you don't want to math that's 0.82 PPG for Konecny, 0.84 PPG for Larkin and 0.86 PPG for DeBrincat

Over that timeframe the Flyers with Konecny scored 817 goals, Chicago/Ottawa with DeBrincat scored 839 goals, and Detroit with Larkin scored 731 goals.

If DeBrincat comes to Detroit things are not getting easier for him.

Oh good lord.

Hey, I didn't say salient or even good. Merely fun.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

But he was better, you know that right?

Can you believe that the Wings once called up Joakim Andersson when they could have called up Anthony Mantha?

 

[jaster]

But he was better, you know that right?

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Exactly. Now take Konecny's surroundings and compare them to what DeBrincat has played in. Then compare that to what the Wings are.

A point of reference.

View attachment 719884

If you don't want to math that's 0.82 PPG for Konecny, 0.84 PPG for Larkin and 0.86 PPG for DeBrincat

Over that timeframe the Flyers with Konecny scored 817 goals, Chicago/Ottawa with DeBrincat scored 839 goals, and Detroit with Larkin scored 731 goals.

If DeBrincat comes to Detroit things are not getting easier for him.

That's why Detroit needs a real 2c. Konecny with Copp and Perron would be a great line...if playing behind six other real top-6 forwards on a cup contending team.

And if you are going whole hog on a 2c you may as well get DeBrincat since you know he can pot 40 with real linemates.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Exactly. Now take Konecny's surroundings and compare them to what DeBrincat has played in. Then compare that to what the Wings are.

A point of reference.

View attachment 719884

If you don't want to math that's 0.82 PPG for Konecny, 0.84 PPG for Larkin and 0.86 PPG for DeBrincat

Over that timeframe the Flyers with Konecny scored 817 goals, Chicago/Ottawa with DeBrincat scored 839 goals, and Detroit with Larkin scored 731 goals.

If DeBrincat comes to Detroit things are not getting easier for him.


Hey, I didn't say salient or even good. Merely fun.

Which is indicative of the fact that the Wings had very little other than Larkin and whoever rode shotgun with him. Now, at a minimum if they add Debrincat or Konecny, they've got 6 legitimate top 6 NHL forwards (even without Fabbri).

Kubalik, Perron, Larkin, Raymond, Debrincat/Konecny, and Copp. They have another two or three in Rasmussen, Berggren, and Fabbri (provided he's not hurt). And while Perron and Raymond are clearly not Patrick Kane by any far cry... they're talented playmakers who will be able to get the puck to Cat.

 

[norrisnick]

That's why Detroit needs a real 2c. Konecny with Copp and Perron would be a great line...if playing behind six other real top-6 forwards on a cup contending team.

Might happen if the cap jumps to $120M...

 

[norrisnick]

Which is indicative of the fact that the Wings had very little other than Larkin and whoever rode shotgun with him. Now, at a minimum if they add Debrincat or Konecny, they've got 6 legitimate top 6 NHL forwards (even without Fabbri).

Kubalik, Perron, Larkin, Raymond, Debrincat/Konecny, and Copp. They have another two or three in Rasmussen, Berggren, and Fabbri (provided he's not hurt). And while Perron and Raymond are clearly not Patrick Kane by any far cry... they're talented playmakers who will be able to get the puck to Cat.

I'm not arguing against adding a top 6 forward. I'm just arguing against DeBrincat being that forward. And in this particular instance that Konecny would be my preference as he's shown he can produce being the best forward on a roster and doesn't rely on playmakers getting him opportunities.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Might happen if the cap jumps to $120M...

*sigh*
Larkin 8.7
DBC/Other Winger 8
2c 8
Kubalik 2.5 (raise to 4 in 2024)
Raymond .925 (raise to 5 in 2024 if deserved)
Perron 4.75 (expires in 2024)
Total ~34.5 in 2023, 36 in 2024

Copp 5.62
Fabbri 4
Zadina 1.825
Berggren .925 (raise to 2.5 in 2024)
Rasmussen 1.46 (raise to 2.5 in 2024)
Kasper .918
Veleno/Soderblom/Warm Body .9
Total 15.653 in 2023, 18.228 in 2024


Chiarot 4.75
Walman 3.4
Maatta 3
Seider .863 (raise to 8 in 2024)
Edvinsson .894
Dumba/UFA pickup 3
Warm Body .9
Total 16.807 in 2023, 23.944 in 2024.

Husso 4.75
Ned/Warm Body 3.5
Total 8.25

Team total: 75.21 in 2023, 86.672 in 2024.
2023 salary cap is projected at 83.5 for 23-24, and potentially 88 million in 24-25. If you are pressed against the cap in 24 SY can sign Seider to a short bridge deal for a season or two until dead cap is gone and Fabbri and Chiarot's contracts are off if the cap is too tight. If I was SY I would try to trade Zadina, Fabbri, and Chiarot and replace them with cheaper options.

This also assumes that Raymond, Seider, and Berggren actually earn huge RFA raises.

 

[norrisnick]

*sigh*
Larkin 8.7
DBC/Other Winger 8
2c 8
Kubalik 2.5 (raise to 4 in 2024)
Raymond .925 (raise to 5 in 2024 if deserved)
Perron 4.75 (expires in 2024)
Total ~34.5 in 2023, 36 in 2024

Copp 5.62
Fabbri 4
Zadina 1.825
Berggren .925 (raise to 2.5 in 2024)
Rasmussen 1.46 (raise to 2.5 in 2024)
Kasper .918
Veleno/Soderblom/Warm Body .9
Total 15.653 in 2023, 18.228 in 2024


Chiarot 4.75
Walman 3.4
Maatta 3
Seider .863 (raise to 8 in 2024)
Edvinsson .894
Dumba/UFA pickup 3
Warm Body .9
Total 16.807 in 2023, 23.944 in 2024.

Husso 4.75
Ned/Warm Body 3.5
Total 8.25

Team total: 75.21 in 2023, 86.672 in 2024.
2023 salary cap is projected at 83.5 for 23-24, and potentially 88 million in 24-25. If you are pressed against the cap in 24 SY can sign Seider to a short bridge deal for a season or two until dead cap is gone and Fabbri and Chiarot's contracts are off if the cap is too tight. If I was SY I would try to trade Zadina, Fabbri, and Chiarot and replace them with cheaper options.

This also assumes that Raymond, Seider, and Berggren actually earn huge RFA raises.

You forgot Konecny.

The point I was addressing is a 3rd line of Konecny - Copp - Perron at $15.875M behind a real top 6.

 

[jkutswings]

You forgot Konecny.

The point I was addressing is a 3rd line of Konecny - Copp - Perron at $15.875M behind a real top 6.

So you're saying that if Detroit adds $20M this summer, then they'll start to run into cap problems?

In other news, water is wet. And in yet additional news, there's no consensus whatsoever that the Wings will be dropping anywhere near that kind of cash all at once, so please keep the sky falling to a minimum.

 

[norrisnick]

So you're saying that if Detroit adds $20M this summer, then they'll start to run into cap problems?

In other news, water is wet. And in yet additional news, there's no consensus whatsoever that the Wings will be dropping anywhere near that kind of cash all at once, so please keep the sky falling to a minimum.

No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

I responded flippantly (maybe with a $120M cap) to a flippant comment (Konecny - Copp - Perron would be a great 3rd line behind a real top 6) and then they decided to try and math it out completely missing what the two flippant comments were about, ie Konecny - Copp - and Perron on the 3rd line behind a real top 6.

People aren't even reading/remembering what they themselves are writing anymore... No wonder they don't understand what other people are writing in response.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

You forgot Konecny.

The point I was addressing is a 3rd line of Konecny - Copp - Perron at $15.875M behind a real top 6.

In this world the Wings don't sign Konecny and use young RFAs to backfill the roster as contracts expire.

Rasmussen-Copp-Soderblom would be a fun third line and I could see Berggren-Kasper-Fabbri doing a lot of damage to other team's third D/fourth lines. If Soderblom isn't ready for the third line swap him and Berggren.

Your concerns re: the cap are very overblown and your concerns re: DBC vs Konecny don't stand up to actual analysis.

If you sign DBC and put him next to someone like Connor he scores 40-50. He's proven this. If you sign Konecny and put him next to Connor he scores 30. He's proven that.

Again, at this point I have to believe you are just being contrarian because your statements don't stand up to actual analysis of the two players, their past performance, and their current situations. You think Konecny will continue to match his best season and DBC will continue to match his worst.

 

[Redwing66]

Is there a reason Konecny and DeBrincat couldn’t be in play at the same time - as in dual acquisition.

 

[norrisnick]

In this world the Wings don't sign Konecny and use young RFAs to backfill the roster as contracts expire.

Rasmussen-Copp-Soderblom would be a fun third line and I could see Berggren-Kasper-Fabbri doing a lot of damage to other team's third D/fourth lines. If Soderblom isn't ready for the third line swap him and Berggren.

Your concerns re: the cap are very overblown and your concerns re: DBC vs Konecny don't stand up to actual analysis.

If you sign DBC and put him next to someone like Connor he scores 40-50. He's proven this. If you sign Konecny and put him next to Connor he scores 30. He's proven that.

Again, at this point I have to believe you are just being contrarian because your statements don't stand up to actual analysis of the two players, their past performance, and their current situations. You think Konecny will continue to match his best season and DBC will continue to match his worst.

I don't have any concerns regarding DeBrincat and Konecny.

DeBrincat has played with far better playmakers than Connor and peaked at 41. And Konecny has scored 31 with the offensive help of one Joel Farrabee. We don't know what he'd do with a player like Connor. When Giroux was still productive in Philly, Konecny was still a wee babe lower in the lineup. Slower to develop than DeBrincat, sure. But the last four years he's scored marginally less than DeBrincat with far less offensive help around him. I'm not looking solely at '22-'23 here. It's four seasons. The stats are a little bit up thread if you want to review.

And even then just re-read what you just wrote, in order to squeeze those alleged 40-50 goals out of DeBrincat you're relying on another player. Konecny scores his 25-30+ with guys like Farrabee and Cates. Who? Exactly.

Is there a reason Konecny and DeBrincat couldn’t be in play at the same time - as in dual acquisition.

One is a 5'10" 175lb winger and the other is... a 5'8" 178lb winger. With Raymond and whoever we'd have the tiniest top 6 wingers in the league.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Is there a reason Konecny and DeBrincat couldn’t be in play at the same time - as in dual acquisition.

They are both smaller Fs, if Soderblom was more NHL ready and Rasmussen was a consistent 2nd liner we could use them to balance the size issues, but as it is we would be stuck with some combination of Berggren, Raymond, Konecny, and DBC playing significant minutes and they are all under 6 feet.

The assets to get both would also likely preclude addressing our center needs and if we are running Copp as our 2c you may as well tank the season.

 

[Henkka]

They are both smaller Fs, if Soderblom was more NHL ready and Rasmussen was a consistent 2nd liner we could use them to balance the size issues, but as it is we would be stuck with some combination of Berggren, Raymond, Konecny, and DBC playing significant minutes and they are all under 6 feet.

The assets to get both would also likely preclude addressing our center needs and if we are running Copp as our 2c you may as well tank the season.

Just to remind you:

Tampa Bay 2020 Championship team had
- 3 forwards 6'1 or more (Killorn, Goodrow, Maroon and that's it)
- 3 forwards 6'0
- 6 forwards 5'11 or less

Tampa Bay 2021 Championship team had
- 3 forwards 6'1 or more (Killorn, Goodrow, Maroon and that's it)
- 4 forwards 6'0
- 5 forwards 5'11 or less

If Red Wings would have
- 2 giants 6'6 or more (Söderblom and Rasmussen)
- 4 forwards as 6'1 (Larkin, Copp, Veleno, Kasper/Perron)
- 0-1 forward at 6'0 (Zadina, but if traded)
- At maximum 5 forwards as 5'11 or less (Raymond, Berggren, Fabbri + DeBrincat + Konecny)

Detroit doesn't differ much from Tampa Bay teams, except they would be a bit bigger team with DeBrincat and Konecny.

Big defence, small offence... that's was the Yzerplan at Tampa. Not it could be bit better version of that, having those two monster forwards, but same kind of forward core.

 

[Oddbob]

View attachment 719889

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

I got mad one time. Someone said Joakim Andersson was better than Luke Glendening and I nearly lost my shit!

I think that was me. Sorry man.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Konecny outscored an aging, half-dead Claude Giroux, who was happy to get out of Philly, while DBC got dumped to one of the worst-run franchises in the NHL and responded with two bad seasons (that still would have had him be one of our three best forwards). Giroux also got to play center between Stutzle and Tkachuk while DeBrincat spent 80% of his time with Batherson, who was a fourth round pick and a career .6 ppg player before he played with DeBrincat.

The fact DBC has already told OTT to get bent shows how he feels about that team and his place on it. He's a two-time 40 goal scorer whose been relegated to the second line with linemates who are not exactly scoring line material. Batherson jumping to a ppg player when stapled to DBC says more about DBC than it does about Batherson.

Context matters.

Bathersons only season at a PPG, albeit injury shortened, was the year before he played with DBC.

 

[Hoog]

I really think Copp needs to go to a wing this season. So, you trade for Konecny and run out

Copp/Larkin/Raymond
Kubs/Konecny/Perron
Ras/Kasper/Berggren
Soder/Veleno/Zadina

 

[norrisnick]

I really think Copp needs to go to a wing this season. So, you trade for Konecny and run out

Copp/Larkin/Raymond
Kubs/Konecny/Perron
Ras/Kasper/Berggren
Soder/Veleno/Zadina

Konecny isn't a center.