Trade Ideas

[Detroit Knights]

Not that I agree with Henkka's wet dreams, but your agument is dishonest. Nobody is going to pay 4500000 to a "Kubalik" to be 4 th line winger. You already have DeBrincat, Konecny, Raymond, Rasmussen, Fabbri, Berggren, Perron. Copp can be also shifted to the wing if Veleno is retained on a cheap contract. And there are also Söderblom and Mazur. It is also debatable, why somebody pays that much to a 36-year-old Perron, other than you saying it has to be done. The premise of "must" resigning Perron and Kubalik is false - you actually acquire DeBrincats and Konecnys to replace them.

As per now Red Wings commited 37 mil to 9 players. Let's subtract Zadina to make Ogee and detroit knights happy - 35,1 for 8 After spending say 20 mil on Seider, Raymond, Berggren and Moose, you still have 30 to sign 10 players:

x-Larkin-Raymond
y-Copp-Rasmussen
Fabbri-Kasper-Berggren
f1-f2-f3
spares

Walman-Seider
Edvinsson-D
Maatta-Chiarot
spare

Husso
G

3 of which are spares, say 2.5 mil, 3 are 4th line player, say 4,5 mio and one is backup goalie max. 3mil. That leaves you with round about 20 mio for a top 4 RD say 4 mil and two top line forwards say 8 mil each. Should be enough. And then, you can consider bridges, moving Fabbri in favour of Mazur/Söderblom, moving Chiarot/Maatta, saving on backup, etc.. But if you are paying Moose, Berggren, Fabbri and Copp middle 6 money, you don't need Perron and Kubalik to play on your 4th line.

fixed

 

[Hoog]

I don't hate the value, per se. I hate that that almost definitely takes us out of Willander range. I'd rather give Philly our 1sts next year and see if they bite.

Or...

#42 + #43 + AlJo + Veleno + Bos '24 1st + Det '24 1st (protected)

for

#22 and Konecny

Basically two 1sts + Veleno for Konecny and two 2nds + AlJo for #22.

Don't hate it but think Philly wants to have higher picks in this draft, since its deemed better than next years. Just my thought process.

 

[norrisnick]

Not that I agree with Henkka's wet dreams, but your agument is dishonest. Nobody is going to pay 4500000 to a "Kubalik" to be 4 th line winger. You already have DeBrincat, Konecny, Raymond, Rasmussen, Fabbri, Berggren, Perron. Copp can be also shifted to the wing if Veleno is retained on a cheap contract. And there are also Söderblom and Mazur. It is also debatable, why somebody have that much to a 36-year-old Perron, other than you saying it has to be done. The premise of "must" resigning Perron and Kubalik is false - you are actually acquire DeBrincats and Konecnys to replace them.

As per now Red Wings commited 37 mil to 9 players. Let's subtract Zadina to make Ogee happy - 35,1 for 8 After spending say 20 mil on Seider, Raymond, Berggren and Moose, you still have 30 to sign 10 players:

x-Larkin-Raymond
y-Copp-Rasmussen
Fabbri-Kasper-Berggren
f1-f2-f3
spares

Walman-Seider
Edvinsson-D
Maatta-Chiarot
spare

Husso
G

3 of which are spares, say 2.5 mil, 3 are 4th line player, say 4,5 mio and one is backup goalie max. 3mil. That leaves you with round about 20 mio for a top 4 RD say 4 mil and two top line forwards say 8 mil each. Should be enough. And then, you can consider bridges, moving Fabbri in favour of Mazur/Söderblom, moving Chiarot/Maatta, saving on backup, etc.. But if you are paying Moose, Berggren, Fabbri and Copp middle 6 money, you don't need Perron and Kubalik to play on your 4th line.

You are misunderstanding my argument. My argument is if you're armchair GMing 2-3 top-6 forwards into the lineup figure out how they fit in and where the money is coming from while also taking into account those players that need new contracts or need to be replaced with new bodies. "Trade for X, Y, Z it works." is a nothing statement.

You're showing your thought process and acknowledging that Fabbri exists. That's a step up over most around here. And that's what my argument has been about in here (apart from shitting on DeBrincat, that's separate). Make the moves make sense is all.

 

[norrisnick]

Don't hate it but think Philly wants to have higher picks in this draft, since its deemed better than next years. Just my thought process.

I can see that. But we want them for the same reason.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Konecny is NOT worth two 1st rd picks.
He is worth less than Debrincat

My god

SY would deserve to be fired on the spot if he ever made such a move

 

[Hoog]

Konecky is NOT worth two 1st rd picks.
He is worth less than Debrincat

My god

SY would deserve to be fired on the spot if he ever made such a move

Konecny is worth every bit of DeBrincat when you factor in the salaries and the fact DeBrincat ain't what he was in Chicago playing with those 2 superstars. In fact, I think I would wager Konecny will be the better player in the next 3 years statistically and eyeball wise.

 

[norrisnick]

Konecky is NOT worth two 1st rd picks.
He is worth less than Debrincat

My god

SY would deserve to be fired on the spot if he ever made such a move

Konecny locked in at $5.5M for 2 more years is worth more than DeBrincat looking for term above $8M. If Konecny comes in above DeBrincat after those 2 years, he likely earned it.

He's been on dumpster fire teams and led the Flyers in scoring 3 of the last 4 years. He put up a 31/30 season in 60 games this year.

 

[Hoog]

Ok, took a deep dive into Tampa and thinking they need to dump salary (whats new) and start to accumulate picks. How about a Ross Colton and Erik Cernak with the Seabrook contract buyout trade for our later 2nd, 3rd, our Boston 2024 pick, and Zadina.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I would do 17 and a 2nd for Konecny. No more.

 

[norrisnick]

Ok, took a deep dive into Tampa and thinking they need to dump salary (whats new) and start to accumulate picks. How about a Ross Colton and Erik Cernak with the Seabrook contract buyout trade for our later 2nd, 3rd, our Boston 2024 pick, and Zadina.

Cernak's new 8 year deal hasn't even started yet. He's not going anywhere.

Seabrook on LTIR is free cap space for Tampa. That's why they acquired him.

They may not be able to re-sign Colton, but again... he's a middle 6 forward. Doesn't really do much for us. 3C maybe? But that should be Copp/Kasper this year.

It's a creative idea to look, but the particulars of two of those contracts make them things Tampa can't move.

 

[jkutswings]

semantics

Saying<Player 1> is a better value at $5.5M than <Player 2> is at $8M is understandable. Saying they are worth more is nonsensical, because they're being paid significantly less.

/semantics

 

[norrisnick]

semantics

Saying<Player 1> is a better value at $5.5M than <Player 2> is at $8M is understandable. Saying they are worth more is nonsensical, because they're being paid significantly less.

/semantics

Is literal payment the only way to establish worth? Given the option I wouldn't pay DeBrincat more than I'd pay Konecny. So even if DeBrincat is paid more, I wouldn't say he's worth more.

And I'm legitimately asking this.

Because a quick duck duck makes them look pretty synonimous

The words are literally being used as definitions of each other.

Or does "more valuable/better value" not = "worth more"?

I blame my technical ESL status for these questions.

Um... I'd prefer to trade for Konecny than for DeBrincat! so we stay on topic. EDIT - we need to fast forward 1 week so we have something new to talk about.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Is literal payment the only way to establish worth? Given the option I wouldn't pay DeBrincat more than I'd pay Konecny. So even if DeBrincat is paid more, I wouldn't say he's worth more.

And I'm legitimately asking this.

Because a quick duck duck makes them look pretty synonimous
View attachment 719859

View attachment 719860

The words are literally being used as definitions of each other.

Or does "more valuable/better value" not = "worth more"?

I blame my technical ESL status for these questions.

Um... I'd prefer to trade for Konecny than for DeBrincat! so we stay on topic. EDIT - we need to fast forward 1 week so we have something new to talk about.

It doesn’t.

A Ford Focus is a better value than an Audi A8. They both perform the same task and the Focus does it for a fraction of the price.

The Audi A8 is worth more because the acquisition cost and the disposal value are much higher.

Value, in this case, is used to say “it provides this amount at this cost. So more like p/60 and other rate stats.

Worth, in this case, is the counting stats. So if Debrincat pots 40 goals at 8M and Konecny, 30 at 5.5M… Konecny would be a better value as he’d cost you you 183k per goal and Debrincat would cost you 200k per goal. But Debrincat would be worth more because 40 > 30.

 

[norrisnick]

It doesn’t.

A Ford Focus is a better value than an Audi A8. They both perform the same task and the Focus does it for a fraction of the price.

The Audi A8 is worth more because the acquisition cost and the disposal value are much higher.

Value, in this case, is used to say “it provides this amount at this cost. So more like p/60 and other rate stats.

Worth, in this case, is the counting stats. So if Debrincat pots 40 goals at 8M and Konecny, 30 at 5.5M… Konecny would be a better value as he’d cost you you 183k per goal and Debrincat would cost you 200k per goal. But Debrincat would be worth more because 40 > 30.

But what if DeBrincat pots 30 at $8M? Or does the $8M matter more than the goals?

 

[jkutswings]

Is literal payment the only way to establish worth? Given the option I wouldn't pay DeBrincat more than I'd pay Konecny. So even if DeBrincat is paid more, I wouldn't say he's worth more.

And I'm legitimately asking this.

Because a quick duck duck makes them look pretty synonimous
View attachment 719859

View attachment 719860

The words are literally being used as definitions of each other.

Or does "more valuable/better value" not = "worth more"?

I blame my technical ESL status for these questions.

Um... I'd prefer to trade for Konecny than for DeBrincat! so we stay on topic. EDIT - we need to fast forward 1 week so we have something new to talk about.

I interpret value in a, "pound for pound" sense and worth as actual cost. But YMMV.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Konecny locked in at $5.5M for 2 more years is worth more than DeBrincat looking for term above $8M. If Konecny comes in above DeBrincat after those 2 years, he likely earned it.

He's been on dumpster fire teams and led the Flyers in scoring 3 of the last 4 years. He put up a 31/30 season in 60 games this year.

Konency screams 55 to 65 pt player based on his numbers from junior through age 26.

That's good but that's not good enough as that to me seems like more of a 2nd line player.

Yes he did have a good year this season, his best pro season ever.

The salary thing who cares.. he either ends up earning the same but at an older age, or not, and being a waste of assets..

 

[norrisnick]

Konency screams 55 to 65 pt player based on his numbers from junior through age 26.

That's good but that's not good enough as that to me seems like more of a 2nd line player.

Yes he did have a good year this season, his best pro season ever.

The salary thing who cares.. he either ends up earning the same but at an older age, or not, and being a waste of assets..

That's not very far off of where I think DeBrincat would perform on the Wings. And DeBrincat's non-offense contribution lags significantly behind Konecny.

DeBrincat wouldn't be stepping into an easier situation on the Wings relatively to what he's experienced in the past. Konecny would be.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

If you give me a choice between Konecny and DeBrincat, I take DBC 10 times out of 10, even if Konecny is 25% of the cost.

Again, if you are so concerned about busting on a contract that you are only willing to sign or trade for cheap middle six guys, you are going to end up with a 2015 era Holland team.

Konecny is the kind of player you focus on if you want to continue picking 9-14.

If you acquire DBC and stick him with Copp he is a 20g/40a/60p guy. If you acquire him and put him with a legit center splitting defensive pressure with Larkin's line he'll score 40/40/80. There's no point acquiring DBC unless SY plans to acquire a real 2c in the next two seasons. If SY isn't planning on acquiring a real 2c in the next two seasons, Larkin needs to start making an exit strategy.

I would go so far as saying that if Yzerman has no plans to acquire a real 2c in the next two seasons (outside of the draft) he should be fired.

 

[Gniwder]

There's no point acquiring DBC unless SY plans to acquire a real 2c in the next two seasons. If SY isn't planning on acquiring a real 2c in the next two seasons, Larkin needs to start making an exit strategy.

Yup, that's my view as well. No point in paying big bucks to a winger with no 2C.

Larkin doesn't need an exit strategy, he's getting paid. WE, the fans, need an exit strategy.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Yup, that's my view as well. No point in paying big bucks to a winger with no 2C.

Larkin doesn't need an exit strategy, he's getting paid. WE, the fans, need an exit strategy.

Larkin gave the Wings a below market contract. He could've gotten close to 10 on the open market with this year's awful crop of free agents. If SY plans to rebuild until Larkin is 32, he should be looking to GTFO.

 

[Ricelund]

Is literal payment the only way to establish worth? Given the option I wouldn't pay DeBrincat more than I'd pay Konecny. So even if DeBrincat is paid more, I wouldn't say he's worth more.

And I'm legitimately asking this.

Because a quick duck duck makes them look pretty synonimous
View attachment 719859

View attachment 719860

The words are literally being used as definitions of each other.

Or does "more valuable/better value" not = "worth more"?

I blame my technical ESL status for these questions.

Um... I'd prefer to trade for Konecny than for DeBrincat! so we stay on topic. EDIT - we need to fast forward 1 week so we have something new to talk about.

We're at this point in the offseason...

 

[norrisnick]

If you give me a choice between Konecny and DeBrincat, I take DBC 10 times out of 10, even if Konecny is 25% of the cost.

Again, if you are so concerned about busting on a contract that you are only willing to sign or trade for cheap middle six guys, you are going to end up with a 2015 era Holland team.

Konecny is the kind of player you focus on if you want to continue picking 9-14.

If you acquire DBC and stick him with Copp he is a 20g/40a/60p guy. If you acquire him and put him with a legit center splitting defensive pressure with Larkin's line he'll score 40/40/80. There's no point acquiring DBC unless SY plans to acquire a real 2c in the next two seasons. If SY isn't planning on acquiring a real 2c in the next two seasons, Larkin needs to start making an exit strategy.

I would go so far as saying that if Yzerman has no plans to acquire a real 2c in the next two seasons (outside of the draft) he should be fired.

Konecny on the Wings outproduces DeBrincat regardless of who you stick them with. That's what makes Konecny the more attractive target. He doesn't need to be spoonfed.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Konecny on the Wings outproduces DeBrincat regardless of who you stick them with. That's what makes Konecny the more attractive target. He doesn't need to be spoonfed.

Tell me tomorrow's lottery numbers kthxbye

 

[Oddbob]

lol Raymond isn't getting 6.67 on his RFA deal unless he pots 30 this season. He'll likely get 5, 5.5 in arbitration. Caufield's contract is abysmal and there are much better RFA comparables.

Seider probably gets 7, 8.5x8 if he blows the doors off next season.

A second for Peeke? He's a 20+ minute a night guy on a lottery team. Career high of...15 points and a career -58. He doesn't play ahead of Seider, Ed, Maatta, Walman, or Chiarot. You're just trolling us at this point.

Caufield just got more than that, as that is where contracts are at now. Guaranteed he gets a 5+ year deal and more than 6-6.5. Only way that doesn't happen is if Yzerman decides he is not part of the core going forward from now til then. Steve Yzerman isn't some magical genius who can make players take millions less than they can get.

Seider is going to get close to 8X8 is my guess.

 

[norrisnick]

Tell me tomorrow's lottery numbers kthxbye

I've got fun facts! You like fun facts?

'19-'20 - '21-'22 Konecny outscored Giroux on Philly 147 to 138
'22-'23 - Giroux outscored DeBrincat on Ottawa 79 to 66