Trade Ideas

[lilidk]

In my opinion we need to wait with the trades until we see that at least one of our forward prospects (preferably two) is developing into a star player. Otherwise, the next rebuilt is within 4-7 years.

Not only that , but Zadina and Veleno , if they not improving, they should get traded. Next season should be it for both of them, they should get chance to show up.

 

[Frk It]

That is quite literally my point.

People see all this space and don't take into account what we need to pay the players that are already here. They see this big number of cap space but don't actually do the math. More than half the time they don't even remember that Fabbri is making $4M this year and next.

Are you actually doing the math?

The only players we have under roster for 24/25 are Larkin (8.7), Copp (5.625), Fabbri (4), Kubalik (1.825), Kasper (918K), Chiarot (4.75), Walman (3.4), Maatta (3), Husso (4.75)

Add that all up with the 1M of dead cap from Abeldkader and you get about 38 million. With a cap that will probably be 88 million or more. So 50 million to operate with.

What is going to help us is we will still have a bunch of guys on ELC's that will be cheap that may be on the team. Edvinsson, Wallinder, Mazur, Soderblom all will still be on ELC's and should cost under 1 million each.

Should have plenty of space to re-sign our RFA's and still looking at adding an impactful piece via free agency or trades. We probably have some of the best cap flexibility in the league. That is one of the perks of being a bad team and not having a ton of assets (should be at least).

 

[norrisnick]

Are you actually doing the math?

The only players we have under roster for 24/25 are Larkin (8.7), Copp (5.625), Fabbri (4), Kubalik (1.825), Kasper (918K), Chiarot (4.75), Walman (3.4), Maatta (3), Husso (4.75)

Add that all up with the 1M of dead cap from Abeldkader and you get about 38 million. With a cap that will probably be 88 million or more. So 50 million to operate with.

What is going to help us is we will still have a bunch of guys on ELC's that will be cheap that may be on the team. Edvinsson, Wallinder, Mazur, Soderblom all will still be on ELC's and should cost under 1 million each.

Should have plenty of space to re-sign our RFA's and still looking at adding an impactful piece via free agency or trades. We probably have some of the best cap flexibility in the league. That is one of the perks of being a bad team and not having a ton of assets (should be at least).

Yes. I have done the math. A lot of the "add this guy and this guy and this guy" posts lead to low a $90sM payroll in '24-'25.

 

[Frk It]

Yes. I have done the math. A lot of the "add this guy and this guy and this guy" posts lead to low a $90sM payroll in '24-'25.

Ok feel free to show me how you get that outcome.

 

[norrisnick]

Ok feel free to show me how you get that outcome.

I think this one was inspired by Henkka's post and it already excludes Konecny. But it also assumes Ray comes in at just $5M on a bridge.

The cheap Zadina and Veleno were yeeted I believe in his "trades"

 

[Frk It]

View attachment 719709

I think this one was inspired by Henkka's post and it already excludes Konecny. But it also assumes Ray comes in at just $5M on a bridge.

The cheap Zadina and Veleno were yeeted I believe in his "trades"

Ok so this just means we can easily accommodate a Lindholm or DeBrincat we just might run into issues if we try to add both.

I don’t disagree with this.

But I’ve seen people disagree with just adding 1 player like that saying we won’t have the money for that. And I think that’s silly.

Appreciate whoever put that together, it is helpful.

 

[norrisnick]

Ok so this just means we can easily accommodate a Lindholm or DeBrincat we just might run into issues if we try to add both.

I don’t disagree with this.

But I’ve seen people disagree with just adding 1 player like that saying we won’t have the money for that. And I think that’s silly.

Appreciate whoever put that together, it is helpful

Exactly. We have more than enough room to get a top line player, a 2nd pairing RD, a goalie, and depth. If we go nuts and try to add 2 top line players because we show a ton of space this season we run into serious problems next season. Too many people are all gung ho "cap out" for this summer. We can't cap out. We need to reserve at least $15M for raises on guys we have. We could easily add a guy that's expiring that we have no intention of keeping, but nothing with term.

The only 1 player disagreement I have is just DeBrincat. I don't think he's the guy to invest $8M in for our top 6.

You're welcome.

 

[SirloinUB]

That press conference yesterday was music to my ears. There is a palpable desperation on this board despite the fact that Yzerman has preached patience every step of the way. I was glad to hear him say he intends on using his top picks.

Id also love to see us add a winger via cap dump. Something like Garland for a late pick or future considerations.

 

[jkutswings]

I was glad to hear him say he intends on using his top picks.

Which is just GM-speak, and could translate into anything on draft day from using all of them to trading several of them if the right offer comes along.

I don't expect Yzerman to deal #9. But saying he intends something a week before the draft means absolutely nothing once things actually begin and phone calls start flying.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

That press conference yesterday was music to my ears. There is a palpable desperation on this board despite the fact that Yzerman has preached patience every step of the way. I was glad to hear him say he intends on using his top picks.

Id also love to see us add a winger via cap dump. Something like Garland for a late pick or future considerations.

What do you mean desperation?

How is the desire to add some, an, actual NHL talent desperate?

 

[ricky0034]

How so?

For current roster players, saying that several have not yet proven anything isn't the same as saying I'm expecting them to fail.

And saying we need high end talent isn't mutually exclusive to expecting to make the playoffs if I'm expecting them to add enough of that talent between now and the next trade deadline in order to make the playoffs.

The team can currently be a question mark, then add pieces, then have kids take a step forward, and everything starts to fall into place fairly quickly.

"90% of the roster is easily replaceable" doesn't exactly scream "playoff team" even assuming some moves will be made

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

View attachment 719709

I think this one was inspired by Henkka's post and it already excludes Konecny. But it also assumes Ray comes in at just $5M on a bridge.

The cheap Zadina and Veleno were yeeted I believe in his "trades"

So in this one not only are we adding Debrincat and Lindholm but also Perron and Kubalik and still have Fabbri(not moved in any deal?)

 

[Hen Kolland]

Why are you automatically penciling in all those players for extensions, let alone assuming they will deserve significant ones?

Mo I understand.

Raymond and Rasmussen have had ups and downs. Both are very LIKELY to get extended, but neither have already locked up big money.

Berggren and Kubalik may or may not even stick with the team. I've seen very good and very ugly moments from both. Not pushing either out the door by any means, but certainly not EXPECTING them both to remain key pieces, and in the right trade I wouldn't bat an eye about including either.

You seem to be a bit too infatuated with current players.

He so desperately wants the Wings to be run like the Coyotes.

 

[Detroit Knights]

This is also assuming we sign perron to another 4.7 mil deal, which we wont

So in this one not only are we adding Debrincat and Lindholm but also Perron and Kubalik and still have Fabbri(not moved in any deal?)

My point exactly. We aren't going to have perron (especially at 4.7 aav), kubalik I could see us keeping, but I don't see how or why we would keep fabbri (even though I love his style of play) much less keep paying him 4mil after barely playing the past 3 years.

 

[Detroit Knights]

He so desperately wants the Wings to be run like the Coyotes.

It really seems like that lmao.

 

[Frk It]

This is also assuming we sign perron to another 4.7 mil deal, which we wont

Could replace him with a guy like Mazur on a 900k ELC deal. Especially if we have brought in a top 6 forward or two via trades or free agency.

 

[norrisnick]

So in this one not only are we adding Debrincat and Lindholm but also Perron and Kubalik and still have Fabbri(not moved in any deal?)

Like I said. Everyone is "add add add add" but don't do any of the legwork to see if it is even feasible. Fabbri isn't just magically going away. We have to pay someone to take his full $4M. Perron is wearing an A, if he wants to stay, he's staying. If not Kubalik, who and for how much?

They are listed because either them or a replacement player will need to be in those spots. If you have things in mind? Great. Show your work.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Could replace him with a guy like Mazur on a 900k ELC deal. Especially if we have brought in a top 6 forward or two via trades or free agency.

mazur or lombardi or whoever our #9 is this year (possible?). Or get a vet that will take close to league min for a 4th/3rd line roll. 3 mil saved just with that difference and the cap is projected by many people to be around 88 mil in 24-25, so now we are under with all of our major guys signed.

 

[norrisnick]

This is also assuming we sign perron to another 4.7 mil deal, which we wont


My point exactly. We aren't going to have perron (especially at 4.7 aav), kubalik I could see us keeping, but I don't see how or why we would keep fabbri (even though I love his style of play) much less keep paying him 4mil after barely playing the past 3 years.

Perron re-signs at his current number or a raise. 2nd leading scorer. Wears an A. Well liked. If he wants to stay, he's staying.

Like your Fabbri comment. We can't just pay him less than $4M because he hasn't played. He's already under contract through the '24-'25 season. You want him gone, it will take an asset to move his full contract.

I'm not saying these things because it's what I want to have happen. I'm saying these things because this is the reality we are living in.

 

[DTR]

As always, I am not sold on the source though they do break news every so often do to their ties to agents. This story references discussions being had over DeBrincat and Konecney.

 

[Gniwder]

I also like rather underpay that 1M than overpay. Under pay by 1M for every multimillion contract and you have 100M valued players under 83.5M cap.

ELC is underpayment, that is why the team needs to draft well. That and getting discounts from players like Boston always does.

Think those contracts will still be meaningless during their lifetime.

Zadina's contract matters because of the structure, at $2.7M QO, he's basically priced himself off the team. Fabbri is probably gone if he doesn't just retire, his knees just can't hold up.

Whether or not Copp and Chiarot's contracts matter depends on how well Kasper and this year's picks do. If the team is competitive in 2025, then those contracts hurt.

 

[Holden Caufield]

I’d be much more interested in Konecny than DeBrincat.

It would be nice if we could get something done with Boston’s ‘24 1st as the centrepiece.
Almost a defacto Bert for Konecny swap…

 

[Detroit Knights]

Like I said. Everyone is "add add add add" but don't do any of the legwork to see if it is even feasible. Fabbri isn't just magically going away. We have to pay someone to take his full $4M. Perron is wearing an A, if he wants to stay, he's staying. If not Kubalik, who and for how much?

They are listed because either them or a replacement player will need to be in those spots. If you have things in mind? Great. Show your work.

here is your leg work with all of the add add add add's

czarnick and chiasson are place holders for whoever we sign. Lindholm was traded for picks and prospects, could include fabbri as well there (i put this for 2024-25 season so lindholm was already ufa in their system).

This also assumed that we don't trade chiarot to arizona (for example) to promote wallinder or sign vet depth D and make aljo full time (as I believe read somewhere that he can play right side?)

I even gave raymond 3x6 and not the 5 mil AAV you put in your spreadsheet.

Perron re-signs at his current number or a raise. 2nd leading scorer. Wears an A. Well liked. If he wants to stay, he's staying.

Like your Fabbri comment. We can't just pay him less than $4M because he hasn't played. He's already under contract through the '24-'25 season. You want him gone, it will take an asset to move his full contract.

I'm not saying these things because it's what I want to have happen. I'm saying these things because this is the reality we are living in.

Would love to bet on this because it won't happen.

Even if it did, take chiasson out of the above roster, slot perron at 4 (he has said he willing to move down in the lineup to stay because he doesn't want to move anymore, so he will also take less then, then again we wont be re-signing him, especially at 4.7) and this roster still fits under the 88 mil cap that has been floating around in reports.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

"90% of the roster is easily replaceable" doesn't exactly scream "playoff team" even assuming some moves will be made

Like 80% of Toronto's roster is easily replaceable. There really are not many irreplaceable pieces in the NHL. Replaceable doesn't mean bad.

They literally turned over their entire goaltending crew in a year and plugged and played Bunting for Hyman and didn't miss a step. Frankly, if you CAN'T easily replace like 80-90% of your roster, you've either got a 2002 Wings scenario where you're uber-stacked... or you've got a shitty team that you're locked into for eternity.

 

[Hen Kolland]

That is quite literally my point.

People see all this space and don't take into account what we need to pay the players that are already here. They see this big number of cap space but don't actually do the math. More than half the time they don't even remember that Fabbri is making $4M this year and next.

I just made a dumb chicken scratch roster for the 2024-25 season. For the record, I hate this roster and I would be pissed if this is what we have. Part of the reason that I want to see more significant trades. But I just wanted to show you how you don't actually have a cap crunch at all. Because in this model, I committed ~$40 million on signings above what we have today

It includes the following "changes" as I will call it.

"Perron" slot at $5.00m (0.25 raise) - these are unsigned slots that could be used for anyone
"Kubalik" slot at $3.00m (0.50 raise) - these are unsigned slots that could be used for anyone
"Suter" slot at $3.50m (0.25 raise) - these are unsigned slots that could be used for anyone
"DeBrincat" slot at $8.50m
Raymond at $7.00m (6.07 raise)
Rasmussen at $3.50m (2.04 raise)
Berggren at $1.53m bridge (1.75% of projected cap, similar to Rasmussen's bridge)
Veleno at $1.53m bridge (1.75% of projected cap, similar to Rasmussen's bridge)
Mazur in at $0.91m
Kasper in at $0.92m

Seider at $9.00m (8.14 raise)
Edvinsson in at $0.93m
Wallinder/Johansson in at $0.93m
"Gudas" slot at $3.00m

Cossa in at $0.86m

Abdelkader's buyout of $1.06m

This includes Larkin, Copp, Fabbri, Zadina, Chiarot, Walman, Maatta, and Husso all on their current deals that are fixed.

A 23 man roster at, but below the projected cap of $87.5 million for 2024-25.



And I know immediately you are going to whine about how we are maxed out with the cap and have no money to pay Edvinsson and Kasper, but this model also consists of $13.58 million of expiring deals from Fabbri, Zadina, Maatta, and Husso. Husso's money will obviously need to be used for him or a different veteran goalie, so probably $8 million of true cleared cap. You need to assume that the team has more players in the pipeline who represent cheap cost replacements...Johansson, Soderblom, Lombardi, Hanas, James, 2023 9th overall.

This also has a lot of free agency money going out to UFAs to replace slots. $14.5 million to slots represented by Perron, Kubalik, Suter, and Gudas. The team doesn't have to shell that much out to these players, nor has Yzerman ever over committed term to UFA acquisitions of this nature, leaving you extremely flexible.

And let's be honest, the odds that you spend $25 million on Debrincat (or other trade target), Raymond, and Seider total is probably worst case scenario right now. And if you are at that number, guess what....some REALLY positive developments have played out and we are having a completely different conversation...like who can I trade a pick to in order to dump Chiarot or Fabbri's contracts off on.

The reality is, not everyone plays their way into the type of deal Seider is about to land. Seider is the exception, not the norm. So you can't maintain maximal flexibility to account for max deals for Edvinsson and Kasper and #9 overall because they won't be getting it. I can't sit on my hands and not try to get better on blind hope that Berggren and Wallinder blow up and become the next chapter in lucky overachievers.