Trade Ideas

[RedHawkDown]

Tavares is much better than given credit for, and certainly wasn't being dragged around by Nylander. Nylander is the kind of guy who needs others to get points, not the guy that gets others a lot more points than they would otherwise get. Nylander is pretty overated around here.

Makes me question if you’ve ever seen a leafs game personally. I would go as far as to say Nylander is the biggest play driver on the entire leafs team. More than matthews.

Fwiw I watch more leafs games than wings games bc I’m in the GTA lol

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

From today's presser I get the sense the 2nds are definitely in play. I like the 2nd for Peeke from Columbus idea. Some RD is going to get squeezed out of Columbus, and I'd want in. Guy that can play 20+ with 3 of it on the PK for $2.75M? Yes, please. Maybe another pick for a goalie type situation ala Husso. Trade two of them to fill holes and draft with the 3rd one.

Anyone got a link???

 

[TheOctopusKid]

From today's presser I get the sense the 2nds are definitely in play. I like the 2nd for Peeke from Columbus idea. Some RD is going to get squeezed out of Columbus, and I'd want in. Guy that can play 20+ with 3 of it on the PK for $2.75M? Yes, please. Maybe another pick for a goalie type situation ala Husso. Trade two of them to fill holes and draft with the 3rd one.

Don’t know much about Peeke, is he worth a second?

 

[Frk It]

That's fine. Their replacements will cost just as much money. Probably more since we won't be fortunate to snag them on RFA contracts.

Raymond's agent just points at Caufield's contract. They're the same player just one shoots more than the other. Same production. Ray's younger and actually bigger.

And with Ras I'm not even talking big money. But if you don't think he's getting at least $3M on a bridge? Suter was making $3M+ for us.

Berggren I'm only penciling him in for something around $2M.

Kubalik is easily a $4M+ player on the market. So it's either sign him or pony up for a replacement.

Those 5 players are under contract for $6.67M this season. Next year that won't get you Mo or Ray alone.

You can keep saying that Caufield and Raymond nonsense all you want, still makes zero sense.

You are worried about negotiating a bunch of contracts that contain 50% RFA years? Why? Do you know what RFA years were designed for?

The only guy who has done anything to actually command money at this point out of that group is Seider.

People on this site still think it’s 2010 and we are maxed out to the cap with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom.

We have plenty of cap space and flexibility to take a player on with a sizeable contract that makes this a better team.

 

[norrisnick]

Anyone got a link???

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

 

[norrisnick]

You can keep saying that Caufield and Raymond nonsense all you want, still makes zero sense.

You are worried about negotiating a bunch of contracts that contain 50% RFA years? Why? Do you know what RFA years were designed for?

The only guy who has done anything to actually command money at this point out of that group is Seider.

People on this site still think it’s 2010 and we are maxed out to the cap with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom.

We have plenty of cap space and flexibility to take a player on with a sizeable contract that makes this a better team.

I'm not disputing this. I'm disputing the notion that we can easily acquire 3 top6 forwards on top of a top 4 D and a platoon level goalie.

 

[norrisnick]

Don’t know much about Peeke, is he worth a second?

I think so. He's 25, RHD, plays a ton of hard minutes on a really bad team. He had more ES and SH TOI than Mo did this year. Stats took a nose dive when they sat and then eventually traded his D partner (Gavrikov). He's locked in at $2.75M for three years. If it gets Chia away from Ed I'd gladly give a 2nd for that.

 

[Frk It]

I'm not disputing this. I'm disputing the notion that we can easily acquire 3 top6 forwards on top of a top 4 D and a platoon level goalie.

Henkka’s post was 100% overkill, but I still think people on here have some serious salary cap PTSD.

I would have stopped at that part where Henkka said we get Lindholm

 

[ZDH]

Makes me question if you’ve ever seen a leafs game personally. I would go as far as to say Nylander is the biggest play driver on the entire leafs team. More than matthews.

Fwiw I watch more leafs games than wings games bc I’m in the GTA lol

yep, nylander stirs the drink over there. Of the big guns hes the only one who actually ups his game in the playoffs and is quite clutch.

 

[norrisnick]

Henkka’s post was 100% overkill, but I still think people on here have some serious salary cap PTSD.

I would have stopped at that part where Henkka said we get Lindholm

And a lot of people have serious salary cap amnesia. If you don't take into account contracts that need renewal or replacement you get in trouble in a hurry.

We absolutely can and need to add a top line capable forward, a 2nd pairing RHD, and a backup/platoon level goalie. And probably a depth guy or two as well.

But a lot of the cap space we have this year, absolutely needs to be set aside for next year. Even if you bridge Ray at $5M between he, Mo, Ras, and Bergie their raises will eat $15M (Mo at $8M is a $7.2M raise, Ray at $5M is a $4.1M raise, Ras at $3M is a $1.5M raise, Bergie at $2M is a $1.1M raise, $14.8M combined). That's two top 6 forwards worth of cap space already gone.

 

[Frk It]

And a lot of people have serious salary cap amnesia. If you don't take into account contracts that need renewal or replacement you get in trouble in a hurry.

We absolutely can and need to add a top line capable forward, a 2nd pairing RHD, and a backup/platoon level goalie. And probably a depth guy or two as well.

But a lot of the cap space we have this year, absolutely needs to be set aside for next year. Even if you bridge Ray at $5M between he, Mo, Ras, and Bergie their raises will eat $15M (Mo at $8M is a $7.2M raise, Ray at $5M is a $4.1M raise, Ras at $3M is a $1.5M raise, Bergie at $2M is a $1.1M raise, $14.8M combined). That's two top 6 forwards worth of cap space already gone.

Go to capfriendly and look at how many players we have under contract for 24/25 and how much we are paying them and tell me why you are stressing about it.

 

[norrisnick]

Go to capfriendly and look at how many players we have under contract for 24/25 and how much we are paying them and tell me why you are stressing about it.

That is quite literally my point.

People see all this space and don't take into account what we need to pay the players that are already here. They see this big number of cap space but don't actually do the math. More than half the time they don't even remember that Fabbri is making $4M this year and next.

 

[Oddbob]

Makes me question if you’ve ever seen a leafs game personally. I would go as far as to say Nylander is the biggest play driver on the entire leafs team. More than matthews.

Fwiw I watch more leafs games than wings games bc I’m in the GTA lol

Seen plenty of Leafs games living in Leafs land and home. Marner and Matthews drive play far more than Nylander. He is a secondary figure for a reason, otherwise why isn't he getting paid 11+?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Seen plenty of Leafs games living in Leafs land and home. Marner and Matthews drive play far more than Nylander. He is a secondary figure for a reason, otherwise why isn't he getting paid 11+?

I personally feel none of them deserve 11+, but at least the last two playoffs Nylander has shown up a lot mroe than the other 3

 

[Oddbob]

I personally feel none of them deserve 11+, but at least the last two playoffs Nylander has shown up a lot mroe than the other 3

Nylander gets pts, but he avoids contact much more than the other two. Even Leaf fans say he is soft, including my brother who is a lifelong Leafs fan. All players are overpaid, but Nylander is not in the same category as the other two and it really isn't close. Marner and Matthews had more pts and finished in the + category, while Nylander had fewer pts and was -4 while playing less minutes than the other two. People way overdo how the other two didn't show up when both were in the plus category and both finished at a pt a game or better in the playoffs.

 

[GreatGordie9]

Today on one of the hockey podcasts that the Wings besides Debrincat, should go after Karlsson and Hanifin.

 

[norrisnick]

Today on one of the hockey podcasts that the Wings besides Debrincat, should go after Karlsson and Hanifin.

You should probably just stop listening to that podcast TBH.

 

[jkutswings]

That is quite literally my point.

People see all this space and don't take into account what we need to pay the players that are already here. They see this big number of cap space but don't actually do the math. More than half the time they don't even remember that Fabbri is making $4M this year and next.

And Fabbri can walk. Stop worrying about a bunch of guys that haven't proven they're worth worrying about.

There's a giant stretch of room in between lighting money on fire and impersonating Scrooge McDuck.

 

[norrisnick]

And Fabbri can walk. Stop worrying about a bunch of guys that haven't proven they're worth worrying about.

There's a giant stretch of room in between lighting money on fire and impersonating Scrooge McDuck.

Absolutely when his contract is done. But that's not til 2025.

By the time they've proven they're worth it, it's a bit late to start worrying.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

.

Those 5 players are under contract for $6.67M this season. Next year that won't get you Mo or Ray alone.

lol Raymond isn't getting 6.67 on his RFA deal unless he pots 30 this season. He'll likely get 5, 5.5 in arbitration. Caufield's contract is abysmal and there are much better RFA comparables.

Seider probably gets 7, 8.5x8 if he blows the doors off next season.

A second for Peeke? He's a 20+ minute a night guy on a lottery team. Career high of...15 points and a career -58. He doesn't play ahead of Seider, Ed, Maatta, Walman, or Chiarot. You're just trolling us at this point.

 

[GreatGordie9]

You should probably just stop listening to that podcast TBH.

I know they're nuts, Debrincat is the only one i would consider.

 

[norrisnick]

lol Raymond isn't getting 6.67 on his RFA deal unless he pots 30 this season. He'll likely get 5, 5.5 in arbitration. Caufield's contract is abysmal and there are much better RFA comparables.

Seider probably gets 7, 8.5x8 if he blows the doors off next season.

A second for Peeke? He's a 20+ minute a night guy on a lottery team. Career high of...15 points and a career -58. He doesn't play ahead of Seider, Ed, Maatta, Walman, or Chiarot. You're just trolling us at this point.

Better RFA comparables for Yzerman, but not any better comparables for Raymond's agents. That and there have been a ton of $6-7M 2nd contracts to guys not any better than Raymond when they signed them.

Peeke is a RD. Obviously he'd not play ahead of Mo. But none of the rest of that list would be ahead of him on the right side.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Better RFA comparables for Yzerman, but not any better comparables for Raymond's agents. That and there have been a ton of $6-7M 2nd contracts to guys not any better than Raymond when they signed them.

Peeke is a RD. Obviously he'd not play ahead of Mo. But none of the rest of that list would be ahead of him on the right side.

If they want to extend them for 8 years searching for a deal? Yes. That’s why Caulfield got the deal he did.

The Wings aren’t likely to do that with Raymond. Far more likely that guys like Tatar and Mantha and Vrana and Bertuzzi are the comps.

Caulfield got 7.5M because they’re buying a couple UFA years.

I guess I just don’t want my hockey team to live like cheapskates like I do in real life. They’ve proven in the last couple years they’re not gonna spend like drunken sailors or do what Henkka’s goin balls deep plan suggests. So if the moves for guys like Cat and Lindholm are there, I’m all for them:

 

[norrisnick]

If they want to extend them for 8 years searching for a deal? Yes. That’s why Caulfield got the deal he did.

The Wings aren’t likely to do that with Raymond. Far more likely that guys like Tatar and Mantha and Vrana and Bertuzzi are the comps.

Caulfield got 7.5M because they’re buying a couple UFA years.

I guess I just don’t want my hockey team to live like cheapskates like I do in real life. They’ve proven in the last couple years they’re not gonna spend like drunken sailors or do what Henkka’s goin balls deep plan suggests. So if the moves for guys like Cat and Lindholm are there, I’m all for them:

And the league is shifting towards extending the guys you feel are core guys at max term coming out of their ELCs. You end up with better extension intervals at that point and keep the lifetime AAV lower if the guy does hit big.

What did those 4 do at 19 and 20? Raymond has played two full seasons at the same age these guys were debuting.

I similarly do not want the Wings to skimp. And that extends to our RFA contracts. Invest in our future and add to it with pieces that make sense.

I'm being categorized of late as a contrarian miser of the boards, but it just boils down to I believe our RFAs are going to cost more than many people seem to realize, Fabbri exists and has a cap hit of $4M for two more years that needs to be addressed if we add significantly up front, and I'm not a big fan of DeBrincat as an answer to our scoring woes. Beyond that? I'm not sure that I disagree with most things.

 

[jkutswings]

I'm being catergorized of late as a contrarian miser of the boards, but it just boils down to I believe our RFAs are going to cost more than many people seem to realize

I believe in Larkin and Seider.
I hope in Raymond, Edvinsson, and Kasper.
Everybody else on this roster and in the pipeline are varying degrees of easily replaceable.

We agree that this team needs first line talent.
We disagree that there might be significant consequences to adding it. (I'm fine with being picky about who we add, but I have zero concerns about how many dollars are left once we add them, because I see a VERY short list of guys I'm not willing to risk losing/replacing if it comes down to that, versus how desperately the team needs a high-end add or two.)