Trade Ideas

[Holden Caufield]

I like indie music. All's I want is for Seth Barton to play games.

Do you also like the idea of tanking for #1 all next year ?

 

[Hen Kolland]

Now do Hagel and DeBrincat. You are slowly but surely getting to my point...

No, you're actually making mine. Context of the contracts makes a f*** ton of difference.

At the time of signing their respective 3 year bridge deals...

Hagel: nearly 23, 53 games played, 9 goals, 24 points
DeBrincat: nearly 22, 162 games played, 69 goals, 128 points

Hagel signed for 1.5, DeBrincat for 6.4.

Hagel is one year away from needing a new deal, if he comes out and repeats his performance, do you think that he's signing for 1.5 again? The best comparable we have this year as a RFA with two years of strong performance around the age is Troy Terry. Terry's numbers are a bit better than Hagel's this past year, but with the cap going up in the coming years, salary figures are probably fine to use. Whether Tampa signs Hagel or not is unknown. What I can tell you is that Evolving Hockey is projecting Terry to sign for $6.2 million on a 4 year term, almost $7.8 million on an 8 year term.

And then what will you say?

 

[Holden Caufield]

This actually makes sense.

Zadina and a mid prospect is Fair value.
Anything more and I would be hanging up the phone.

 

[norrisnick]

No, you're actually making mine. Context of the contracts makes a f*** ton of difference.

At the time of signing their respective 3 year bridge deals...

Hagel: nearly 23, 53 games played, 9 goals, 24 points
DeBrincat: nearly 22, 162 games played, 69 goals, 128 points

Hagel signed for 1.5, DeBrincat for 6.4.

Hagel is one year away from needing a new deal, if he comes out and repeats his performance, do you think that he's signing for 1.5 again? The best comparable we have this year as a RFA with two years of strong performance around the age is Troy Terry. Terry's numbers are a bit better than Hagel's this past year, but with the cap going up in the coming years, salary figures are probably fine to use. Whether Tampa signs Hagel or not is unknown. What I can tell you is that Evolving Hockey is projecting Terry to sign for $6.2 million on a 4 year term, almost $7.8 million on an 8 year term.

And then what will you say?

Now do Hagel and Berggren. Like I said, slowly but surely.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Now do Hagel and Berggren. Like I said, slowly but surely.

No, I am not going to do Berggren because it escapes the parameters of reasonable. Comparing second contracts and later to ELCs completely ignores context. But you are essentially confirming your end goal is to reach a point where you prove that a rookie on an ELC that scored 28 points is more valuable than everyone else we have discussed to this point? A list that includes Connor McDavid.

You are quite bad at developing any form of evidence backed arguments. This will be my last post engaging you on this topic because everyone here is worse off having tried to follow your logic.

 

[Detroit Knights]

No, I am not going to do Berggren because it escapes the parameters of reasonable. Comparing second contracts and later to ELCs completely ignores context. But you are essentially confirming your end goal is to reach a point where you prove that a rookie on an ELC that scored 28 points is more valuable than everyone else we have discussed to this point? A list that includes Connor McDavid.

You are quite bad at developing any form of evidence backed arguments. This will be my last post engaging you on this topic because everyone here is worse off having tried to follow your logic.

Going to be honest with you, I think he is just trolling anyone and everyone. He randomly brings up arguments that make no sense in the active conversation that is occurring and then talks down to you because you are wrong lol. Quite interesting mental gymnastics every time he responds somewhere.

 

[norrisnick]

No, I am not going to do Berggren because it escapes the parameters of reasonable. Comparing second contracts and later to ELCs completely ignores context. But you are essentially confirming your end goal is to reach a point where you prove that a rookie on an ELC that scored 28 points is more valuable than everyone else we have discussed to this point? A list that includes Connor McDavid.

You are quite bad at developing any form of evidence backed arguments. This will be my last post engaging you on this topic because everyone here is worse off having tried to follow your logic.

I have never once stated this or intended to. Merely addressing the point that a 28pt rookie isn't destined to be that forever. And that getting solid play on a 2nd contract has a ton of value compared to even better play a guy on his UFA cash in contract. You nicely pointed out a few such players.

 

[norrisnick]

Going to be honest with you, I think he is just trolling anyone and everyone. He randomly brings up arguments that make no sense in the active conversation that is occurring and then talks down to you because you are wrong lol. Quite interesting mental gymnastics every time he responds somewhere.

What mental gymnastics? Like I said before, it's not my fault you don't realize that post #330 and #335 say the exact same thing.

Some people want Jeff Skinner mk.II

Don't expect unanimity on that front. And it sounds like Ottawa is struggling to find takers. Wonder why...

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

That recent tweet gives me hope. Steal DeBrincat, only way the trade works for Detroit.

Just can't give Ottawa a bunch of high value assets for that type of player. They are direct competition to climbing out of non playoff purgatory. And they depleted their futures asset base, don't help them.

Steve is usually stong on the trade front, will be interesting how he handles this.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Not even 3 years.



Surely you are not trying to compare and project Berggren to be like Datsyuk, who went on to be the best player in the entire world for a short period of time, just because of coincidental timelines.

Fun fact. This coming season, Berggren will be the same age that Debrincat scored 32 goals and 56 points in 52 games (Covid shortened season). Meaning he was well on his way to his second career 40+ goal season. He was second in the league in goals per game that year behind only Auston Matthews.

But tell me more about how Berggren's potential is so much more valuable than things DeBrincat has already proven he can do...

I'll bite.

Berggren's potential is that he scores around the same rate as Debrincat, maybe a little less.

Berggren will also not screw up the cap.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

If Michkov is there at #5 and for some reason Hughes don't want to draft him.

Detroit gets:

#5 and drafts Michkov.

Montreal gets:

#9 + #17 and draft Dvorsky and Honzek (and Strbak at #31, advancing toward their secret goal of icing an all Slovak line-up).

Who says no?

Detroit.

 

[SoupNazi]

That, I'm good with.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

That, I'm good with.

Yes. Nobody will want to pay for Rob Brown.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Moving Zadina isn’t weird for us, Go Sens. It makes perfect sense. He’s terrible and we don’t want him and have no real long term plan for him so it makes total sense. Otherwise we’re going to fire him out of the mitten using our giant fan made trebuchet.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Moving Zadina isn’t weird for us, Go Sens. It makes perfect sense. He’s terrible and we don’t want him and have no real long term plan for him so it makes total sense. Otherwise we’re going to fire him out of the mitten using our giant fan made trebuchet.

But Zadina in 21-22 scored 24 points on an ELC and made like 900k. And then signed for 1.8m for three years. Man, is Debrincat gonna be 4-5x better than him? That seems dumb!

I'll bite.

Berggren's potential is that he scores around the same rate as Debrincat, maybe a little less.

Berggren will also not screw up the cap.

1) and the likelihood of him hitting that potential? Remember, we are almost five years post draft for him. You’d be trading for Debrincat to get the potential realized now

2). Debrincat would ALSO not screw up the cap. At 9m, landing Cat doesn’t prevent you from extending Seider or Edvinsson or Kasper or any of your big guns. Debrincat or Copp + Chiarot? Or Perron + Chiarot?

 

[norrisnick]

1) and the likelihood of him hitting that potential? Remember, we are almost five years post draft for him. You’d be trading for Debrincat to get the potential realized now

2). Debrincat would ALSO not screw up the cap. At 9m, landing Cat doesn’t prevent you from extending Seider or Edvinsson or Kasper or any of your big guns. Debrincat or Copp + Chiarot? Or Perron + Chiarot?

Some guys take a while. We had a few kids that took 4-5+ years before they did much of anything. Particularly ones from overseas.

So, we give up assets to give DeBrincat $9M so we also get to burn more assets to trade away contracts next year? Sign me up!

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

But Zadina in 21-22 scored 24 points on an ELC and made like 900k. And then signed for 1.8m for three years. Man, is Debrincat gonna be 4-5x better than him? That seems dumb!



1) and the likelihood of him hitting that potential? Remember, we are almost five years post draft for him. You’d be trading for Debrincat to get the potential realized now

2). Debrincat would ALSO not screw up the cap. At 9m, landing Cat doesn’t prevent you from extending Seider or Edvinsson or Kasper or any of your big guns. Debrincat or Copp + Chiarot? Or Perron + Chiarot?

It makes the Captain, make less than Debrincat.

How is Detroit getting rid of those players? You have to pay for Debrincat, and Ottawa doesn't want long-term contracts in return.

 

[norrisnick]

It makes the Captain, make less than Debrincat.

How is Detroit getting rid of those players? You have to pay for Debrincat, and Ottawa doesn't want long-term contracts in return.

Not only that... I'd rather have Copp or Perron than DeBrincat. Cheaper and bring similar on-ice value and we don't have to give up any assets for them. Copp being a center and two-way play, particularly the PK and defending lead situations. Perron is basically the same type of player as DeBrincat. Just older, $4M cheaper, a hair less productive but with leadership qualities in the room. Where you'd want them in the lineup is a complete overlap on the Venn Diagram. And that place in the lineup is also ultimately where you want Raymond to get to. How many medium to small right-shot wingers do we need?

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

If we were to trade for DeBrincat. Would prefer it if we could send the Boston pick for next year instead of 17 this.

 

[ColdToiletSeats]

People are so against proven point producers lol everyone like not seeing this team in the playoffs? lol you trade Zadina and picks in a heart beat for DeBrincat don't be stupid. Who cares if we have to overpay a little the guy is good.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

People are so against proven point producers lol everyone like not seeing this team in the playoffs? lol you trade Zadina and picks in a heart beat for DeBrincat don't be stupid. Who cares if we have to overpay a little the guy is good.

Ok.

Say, Zadina and 2023 1sr(#17) for Debrincat.

To me, no thanks. Debrincat is a great winger, but with the make-up of Detroit, I don't think they will pay for another small forward.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Not only that... I'd rather have Copp or Perron than DeBrincat. Cheaper and bring similar on-ice value and we don't have to give up any assets for them. Copp being a center and two-way play, particularly the PK and defending lead situations. Perron is basically the same type of player as DeBrincat. Just older, $4M cheaper, a hair less productive but with leadership qualities in the room. Where you'd want them in the lineup is a complete overlap on the Venn Diagram. And that place in the lineup is also ultimately where you want Raymond to get to. How many medium to small right-shot wingers do we need?

More than what we have, because we don’t have top end talent. We haven’t had a 40 goal scorer since 2009. Nothing is saying Debrincat would be a 40 goal guy here, but he’d be the first guy with that potential since Hossa.

The Wings have a bunch of the same okay NHLers. Cat is potentially an upper end piece. You have to give to get something high end

 

[norrisnick]

More than what we have, because we don’t have top end talent. We haven’t had a 40 goal scorer since 2009. Nothing is saying Debrincat would be a 40 goal guy here, but he’d be the first guy with that potential since Hossa.

The Wings have a bunch of the same okay NHLers. Cat is potentially an upper end piece. You have to give to get something high end

Absolutely. Target high end. Not a tiny top 6 shooter that is only linked to us because he's from the state.

Find a bigger hill to die on than DeBrincat.

 

[jkutswings]

Ok.

Say, Zadina and 2023 1sr(#17) for Debrincat.

To me, no thanks. Debrincat is a great winger, but with the make-up of Detroit, I don't think they will pay for another small forward.

Even in this draft, the odds of 17 having a career as good or better than Debrincat are under 10 percent.

If you don't think the player is the right fit, I can understand that. But sometimes it feels like fans are assuming Detroit has a realistic chance to draft the next Gretzky with every one of their picks, when said picks are worth a whole lot less than that.

 

[ColdToiletSeats]

Ok.

Say, Zadina and 2023 1sr(#17) for Debrincat.

To me, no thanks. Debrincat is a great winger, but with the make-up of Detroit, I don't think they will pay for another small forward.

WE NEED GOALS WE DONT HAVE GOAL SCORERS I DONT CARE IF THE KID IS 4'11 HE PRODUCES

Zadina is garbage if anyone wants him for free we should let him go .. Veleno can go too