Trade Ideas

[Hen Kolland]

I am happy to trade Berggren but not for Debrincat. I straight up don’t want Debrincat. He isn’t a difference maker. Ottawa’s pick is 3 spots below ours and they had Stutzle, Tkachuk, Giroux, and others for him to play with. Cat is a one trick pony with his shot and our forwards already get pushed around. The addition of a very short pure shooter isn’t the answer.

He will not push the needle in Detroit and we need to be using our tradeable assets for guys that will be core players, not guys that will just help us be mediocre.

You figure to have Rasmussen, Kasper, Mazur all joining or re-joining the top 9 will change the dynamic that you saw last year late of the team just getting abused. If you are fortunate enough to draft someone like Ryan Leonard at 9th overall, you can start to envision him joining into the fold in the next few years that plays a more direct style of play.

At the end of the day, he does move the needle. And the type of player you are hoping to find doesn't become available via trade on a regular basis. And when they do, you don't just casually get to drop Berggren in as a substantial piece. Berggren isn't a major asset in a trade for a Tkachuk or an Eichel, he is a footnote.

 

[norrisnick]

Not even 3 years.



Surely you are not trying to compare and project Berggren to be like Datsyuk, who went on to be the best player in the entire world for a short period of time, just because of coincidental timelines.

Fun fact. This coming season, Berggren will be the same age that Debrincat scored 32 goals and 56 points in 52 games (Covid shortened season). Meaning he was well on his way to his second career 40+ goal season. He was second in the league in goals per game that year behind only Auston Matthews.

But tell me more about how Berggren's potential is so much more valuable than things DeBrincat has already proven he can do...

Who said anything about more potential.

Bergie isn't going to making anything near $9M this coming season. Good luck to the kitten on being 4 times as valuable...

 

[RedHawkDown]

You figure to have Rasmussen, Kasper, Mazur all joining or re-joining the top 9 will change the dynamic that you saw last year late of the team just getting abused. If you are fortunate enough to draft someone like Ryan Leonard at 9th overall, you can start to envision him joining into the fold in the next few years that plays a more direct style of play.

At the end of the day, he does move the needle. And the type of player you are hoping to find doesn't become available via trade on a regular basis. And when they do, you don't just casually get to drop Berggren in as a substantial piece. Berggren isn't a major asset in a trade for a Tkachuk or an Eichel, he is a footnote.

Not for Tkachuk or Eichel. But berggren plus 2 1st round picks and another good prospect is a decent basis for a trade for someone like Keller or Connor if they want out. That’s what we should be targeting. I would way rather pay Connor 9M than Debrincat.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I am happy to trade Berggren but not for Debrincat. I straight up don’t want Debrincat. He isn’t a difference maker. Ottawa’s pick is 3 spots below ours and they had Stutzle, Tkachuk, Giroux, and others for him to play with. Cat is a one trick pony with his shot and our forwards already get pushed around. The addition of a very short pure shooter isn’t the answer.

He will not push the needle in Detroit and we need to be using our tradeable assets for guys that will be core players, not guys that will just help us be mediocre.

Debrincat wasn't playing with Tkachuk or stutzle for over half the season. He was playing with Pinto (rookie) and Batherson. Those two players are wildly different offense- and defense-wise than a Giroux, stutzle, and tkachuk. He still scored 27 goals on a new team/new system...

Let's pretend for a minute (probably a new concept for these boards right? ):

We trade for debrincat for something close to bos 1st next year or a 2nd and 4th this year. W.e something like that (let's add zadina for fun...please).

Debrincat comes to detroit and puts up 35 goals. 40 assists in his first year with us freshly after signing a 7 year contract with us (price won't be more than 9 mil a year imo, so I won't factor in AAV).

Would you be willing to admit that you are wrong and debrincat does move the needle? Or do you refuse to admit it regardless of what he does if he get's on the team? I ask this same question to you too @norrisnick .

I legit want to know because if you are saying all this with no open mind after he puts up the numbers to shut up the haters, then there is no reason to try and argue with you because it is just a waste of breath. But, if you were willing to concede if the above scenario happens (+/- a goal/assist here and there) then I can understand your position. I will do the same and concede if he doesn't get that in his first year or near it with us (assuming he is traded here) then I will eat crow.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Debrincat wasn't playing with Tkachuk or stutzle for over half the season. He was playing with Pinto (rookie) and Batherson. Those two players are wildly different offense- and defense-wise than a Giroux, stutzle, and tkachuk. He still scored 27 goals on a new team/new system...

Let's pretend for a minute (probably a new concept for these boards right? ):

We trade for debrincat for something close to bos 1st next year or a 2nd and 4th this year. W.e something like that (let's add zadina for fun...please).

Debrincat comes to detroit and puts up 35 goals. 40 assists in his first year with us freshly after signing a 7 year contract with us (price won't be more than 9 mil a year imo, so I won't factor in AAV).

Would you be willing to admit that you are wrong and debrincat does move the needle? Or do you refuse to admit it regardless of what he does if he get's on the team? I ask this same question to you too @norrisnick .

I legit want to know because if you are saying all this with no open mind after he puts up the numbers to shut up the haters, then there is no reason to try and argue with you because it is just a waste of breath. But, if you were willing to concede if the above scenario happens (+/- a goal/assist here and there) then I can understand your position. I will do the same and concede if he doesn't get that in his first year or near it with us (assuming he is traded here) then I will eat crow.

Yes of course if he gets acquired for your proposed return and puts up 75pts on this team, I’ll eat crow. I’d love that. But I don’t see it happening.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Not for Tkachuk or Eichel. But berggren plus 2 1st round picks and another good prospect is a decent basis for a trade for someone like Keller or Connor if they want out. That’s what we should be targeting. I would way rather pay Connor 9M than Debrincat.

Connor is also signed for the next what 2 or 3 seasons at around 7.5 AAV. Would be perfectly fine trading berggren and both firsts next year for keller or connor. Especially because everyone is saying next year's draft is average.

IF we got keller or connor, include debrincat because of all the links he has with us, both of those 1sts would be useless to us anyways. We would easily be able to get into the 2nd or 3rd round in the playoffs. Pretty confident in that, as long as we get a backup like Raanta. I don't think we win the cup with those additions this coming year, but we would definitely be in a championship mindset/window for the next 5-7 years, assuming we are able to resign connor or get someone to replace his offense if he leaves. (connor and debrincat grew up an hour away from eachother...interesting)

 

[Hen Kolland]

Who said anything about more potential.

Bergie isn't going to making anything near $9M this coming season. Good luck to the kitten on being 4 times as valuable...

Shouldn't be all that difficult considering that value isn't a linear measurement? Or are you going to hold this same measurement for every player and realize that McDavid is horribly overpaid because he's not worth XXX times Connor Bedard in the coming season?

 

[Detroit Knights]

Yes of course if he gets acquired for your proposed return and puts up 75pts on this team, I’ll eat crow. I’d love that. But I don’t see it happening.

I appreciate the honesty. Some people would still say no.

I honestly do not believe he gets traded to us for anything more than what I proposed. Reasoning is simple: he says he isn't staying there, he wants out (no leverage), detroit is on his list (i thought i read that somewhere?), and he always has a lot of friends/family come to games when he is in detroit. To some people, those things matter a lot (please see Larkin anytime his dad or extended family members are in the stands, he always looks up at them after he is on the ice for a goal/assist).

 

[Hen Kolland]

Not for Tkachuk or Eichel. But berggren plus 2 1st round picks and another good prospect is a decent basis for a trade for someone like Keller or Connor if they want out. That’s what we should be targeting. I would way rather pay Connor 9M than Debrincat.

You aren't going to hear me complain about either of those guys. Really all 3 of them are excellent options if they are available. I would be more so inclined to get Keller, but there's a lot of things that have to play out to make it an option.

 

[norrisnick]

Debrincat wasn't playing with Tkachuk or stutzle for over half the season. He was playing with Pinto (rookie) and Batherson. Those two players are wildly different offense- and defense-wise than a Giroux, stutzle, and tkachuk. He still scored 27 goals on a new team/new system...

Let's pretend for a minute (probably a new concept for these boards right? ):

We trade for debrincat for something close to bos 1st next year or a 2nd and 4th this year. W.e something like that (let's add zadina for fun...please).

Debrincat comes to detroit and puts up 35 goals. 40 assists in his first year with us freshly after signing a 7 year contract with us (price won't be more than 9 mil a year imo, so I won't factor in AAV).

Would you be willing to admit that you are wrong and debrincat does move the needle? Or do you refuse to admit it regardless of what he does if he get's on the team? I ask this same question to you too @norrisnick .

I legit want to know because if you are saying all this with no open mind after he puts up the numbers to shut up the haters, then there is no reason to try and argue with you because it is just a waste of breath. But, if you were willing to concede if the above scenario happens (+/- a goal/assist here and there) then I can understand your position. I will do the same and concede if he doesn't get that in his first year or near it with us (assuming he is traded here) then I will eat crow.

So... if he does something I don't think he's going to do. Do I acknowledge that he did something I didn't think he would do? Yes? I don't live in some alternate reality. I have doubts about his future, but if something happens it happens. Like say his 27 goal season on a much deeper offense than the Wings. Key point, ADB scored 11 of his 27 goals and 19 of his assists on the PP. A PP that he did in fact share with Stutzle and Tkachuk and Giroux.

Shouldn't be all that difficult considering that value isn't a linear measurement? Or are you going to hold this same measurement for every player and realize that McDavid is horribly overpaid because he's not worth XXX times Connor Bedard in the coming season?

Cap space is pretty linear. You don't get more of it just because your payroll is concentrated at the top.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I appreciate the honesty. Some people would still say no.

I honestly do not believe he gets traded to us for anything more than what I proposed. Reasoning is simple: he says he isn't staying there, he wants out (no leverage), detroit is on his list (i thought i read that somewhere?), and he always has a lot of friends/family come to games when he is in detroit. To some people, those things matter a lot (please see Larkin anytime his dad or extended family members are in the stands, he always looks up at them after he is on the ice for a goal/assist).

@RedHawkDown - See bolded, then see this:

So... if he does something I don't think he's going to do. Do I acknowledge that he did something I didn't think he would do? Yes? I don't live in some alternate reality. I have doubts about his future, but if something happens it happens. Like say his 27 goal season on a much deeper offense than the Wings. Key point, ADB scored 11 of his 27 goals and 19 of his assists on the PP. A PP that he did in fact share with Stutzle and Tkachuk and Giroux.

See what I mean?

 

[norrisnick]

@RedHawkDown - See bolded, then see this:


See what I mean?

Don't blame me because you can't read, dude.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Cap space is pretty linear. You don't get more of it just because your payroll is concentrated at the top.

Cap space is linear, but player value isn't. Which is the specific thing that you had called out. Don't go moving the goal posts now.

If you don't think that DeBrincat has proven to be more than 4x the player that Berggren is TODAY, you are lying to yourself. And further, the closer that Berggren gets to DeBrincat, the more money he is going to command, meaning the arbitrary, nonsensical hurdle that you are setting is going to get lower.

If I could summarize it this way: I would rather pay really good players really good player money as opposed to paying pretty good players pretty good player money. Unless you are going to tell me that suddenly Yzerman is going to get bent over the negotiating table by DeBrincat, I'd rather take my chances.

 

[norrisnick]

Cap space is linear, but player value isn't. Which is the specific thing that you had called out. Don't go moving the goal posts now.

If you don't think that DeBrincat has proven to be more than 4x the player that Berggren is TODAY, you are lying to yourself. And further, the closer that Berggren gets to DeBrincat, the more money he is going to command, making the arbitrary, nonsensical hurdle that you are setting is going to get lower.

If I could summarize it this way: I would rather pay really good players really good player money as opposed to paying pretty good players pretty good player money. Unless you are going to tell me that suddenly Yzerman is going to get bent over the negotiating table by DeBrincat, I'd rather take my chances.

Salary and value are only things because of the cap and subsequent cap space. You can't just ignore it in a valuation.

A guy that scores 20/20 at $2M has a ton of value compared to a guy that scores 30/30 at $9M.

People are hell bent on blindly walking into the Jeff Skinner contract here. And it's baffling.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Again, more
Plausible than trading their pick.

And it’s more plausible that I’ll have relations with Jennifer Lawrence than with Catherine Middleton but neither of those is gonna happen.

 

[Michoulicious]

If Michkov is there at #5 and for some reason Hughes don't want to draft him.

Detroit gets:

#5 and drafts Michkov.

Montreal gets:

#9 + #17 and draft Dvorsky and Honzek (and Strbak at #31, advancing toward their secret goal of icing an all Slovak line-up).

Who says no?

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Salary and value are only things because of the cap and subsequent cap space. You can't just ignore it in a valuation.

A guy that scores 20/20 at $2M has a ton of value compared to a guy that scores 30/30 at $9M.

People are hell bent on blindly walking into the Jeff Skinner contract here. And it's baffling.

And Berggren if he goes 20/20 is making at a minimum 6 or 7M annually in a couple years.

 

[norrisnick]

And Berggren if he goes 20/20 is making at a minimum 6 or 7M annually in a couple years.

That's fine. But he's not going to get it on his next contract. Unless he goes off, which would look really bad for the guys that want to trade him for DeBrincat... He's getting some sort of $2Mish bridge next year. Either way, he's at sub $1M this year and IMO even odds at worst for a 20/20 year. He had 15/13 getting called up late.

If Michkov is there at #5 and for some reason Hughes don't want to draft him.

Detroit gets:

#5 and drafts Michkov.

Montreal gets:

#9 + #17 and draft Dvorsky and Honzek (and Strbak at #31, advancing toward their secret goal of icing an all Slovak line-up).

Who says no?

Me.

I'd rather draft Dvorsky than Michkov as is.

 

[jfc64]

I like indie music. All's I want is for Seth Barton to play games.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Salary and value are only things because of the cap and subsequent cap space. You can't just ignore it in a valuation.

A guy that scores 20/20 at $2M has a ton of value compared to a guy that scores 30/30 at $9M.

People are hell bent on blindly walking into the Jeff Skinner contract here. And it's baffling.

This is so remarkably misguided to hinge an argument on, and here's why. Allow me to put on the hat that allows me to think like you.

Brandon Hagel scored 64 points this year; applied to his contract (non-ELC) and he has a cost per point of $23,437. McDavid had 153 points this year; applied to his contract and he has a cost per point of $81,699.

Therefore, McDavid is needs to be worth roughly 3.5x Brandon Hagel to make the contract worthwhile, but he only scored 2.39x the points. Therefore, Hagel > McDavid. Just ignore that one just had the best individual season since Lemieux.

 

[norrisnick]

This is so remarkably misguided to hinge an argument on, and here's why. Allow me to put on the hat that allows me to think like you.

Brandon Hagel scored 64 points this year; applied to his contract (non-ELC) and he has a cost per point of $23,437. McDavid had 153 points this year; applied to his contract and he has a cost per point of $81,699.

Therefore, McDavid is needs to be worth roughly 3.5x Brandon Hagel to make the contract worthwhile, but he only scored 2.39x the points. Therefore, Hagel > McDavid. Just ignore that one just had the best individual season since Lemieux.

Now do Hagel and DeBrincat. You are slowly but surely getting to my point...

 

[jfc64]

That's fine. But he's not going to get it on his next contract. Unless he goes off, which would look really bad for the guys that want to trade him for DeBrincat... He's getting some sort of $2Mish bridge next year. Either way, he's at sub $1M this year and IMO even odds at worst for a 20/20 year. He had 15/13 getting called up late.


Me.

I'd rather draft Dvorsky than Michkov as is.

Michkov's gonna fall now. To an immediate contender.

 

[norrisnick]

Michkov's gonna fall now. To an immediate contender.

Don't worry. The window will close before he comes over.

 

[Retire91]

We are not trading for DeBrincat
We are not trading for Karlson
No one is giving up their top 3 pick

 

[Big Ed]