Trade Ideas

[better Red than Dead]

He's got 6 years in the league and his 82 game pace for goals are 28, 41, 21, 50, 41, 27. There's enough pointing toward a 30+ goal norm than 25 and certainly not under 20. It's unrealistic to try to paint him as a 20 goal guy. He might not be a 40+ guy, but he's been near 30 goal pace wise all but one season.

A true one touch goal scoring threat. Basically he's a lot of what Vrana was without any of the baggage. Something that we just don't have at all right now. And don't have in the system at any level.

There are pieces that I would be weary of giving away, but f***, if the sticking point is giving up Berggren, I will move him to Ottawa myself. Sorry if that offends you and others. I'm moving a guy with a very small chance of being a pass-first first line winger for a guy who has a reasonable track record of being a 30+ goal scoring first line winger.

It's time to set aside loyalty to good prospects that aren't going to materially impact the outlook of our future.



There's as good of a chance as Anaheim listening on Zegras as you are willing to listen on Seider. Meaning you aren't, and they aren't. You should drop it here.

Again, more
Plausible than trading their pick.

 

[Pavels Dog]

There are pieces that I would be weary of giving away, but f***, if the sticking point is giving up Berggren, I will move him to Ottawa myself. Sorry if that offends you and others. I'm moving a guy with a very small chance of being a pass-first first line winger for a guy who has a reasonable track record of being a 30+ goal scoring first line winger.

I would move Berggren (depending on other pieces ofc), I'd be much more hesitant to move Mazur.

 

[jkutswings]

I would move Berggren (depending on other pieces ofc), I'd be much more hesitant to move Mazur.

I'm not saying that Debrincat is the right guy. But what specifically makes you hesitant about dealing Mazur? He's definitely a outperforming his draft slot, but I don't know that a gritty guy who might become a 15-20 goal player is anywhere near untouchable.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I agree with the sentiment, but the proposal was to move Mazur, not Berggren.

Berggren in this instance was just a name. I don't have any reservations on a number of prospects moving them in a deal. The point being in general that everyone has fallen in love with some of our prospects and have hyped them to a point where they seem like they are impossible to move on from, but the reality is they are probably just a run of the mill middle to bottom of the lineup player. We need to make big strides, we can't compete through a battle of attrition.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm not saying that Debrincat is the right guy. But what specifically makes you hesitant about dealing Mazur? He's definitely a outperforming his draft slot, but I don't know that a gritty guy who might become a 15-20 goal player is anywhere near untouchable.

Small sample size but he impressed the hell out of me in AHL and Worlds. At minimum he'll be a 15-20 goal guy who is fantastic on the PK and annoying to play against.
I'm also of a mindset that one of our prospects is going to exceed expectations. Is it Mazur? Is it Lombardi? Buchelnikov? Elmer? Kasper? How much would it suck to sit here looking for elite talent and we end up trading away a guy that becomes the next Robertson, Point, Marchand or Thompson? And before you say none of our prospects have that potential; no one thought those guys did either.

The point being in general that everyone has fallen in love with some of our prospects and have hyped them to a point where they seem like they are impossible to move on from, but the reality is they are probably just a run of the mill middle to bottom of the lineup player.

"Probably" being the key word. Every prospect is probably just a run of the mill player. So that means you should trade them all and trade every pick right? Except we know even some guys that were probably only going to be run of the mill players actually ended up being really good, even elite players.
Teams that panic and start trading young players for established guys very often end up regretting it.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Small sample size but he impressed the hell out of me in AHL and Worlds. At minimum he'll be a 15-20 goal guy who is fantastic on the PK and annoying to play against.
I'm also of a mindset that one of our prospects is going to exceed expectations. Is it Mazur? Is it Lombardi? Buchelnikov? Elmer? Kasper? How much would it suck to sit here looking for elite talent and we end up trading away a guy that becomes the next Robertson, Point, Marchand or Thompson? And before you say none of our prospects have that potential; no one thought those guys did either.


"Probably" being the key word. Every prospect is probably just a run of the mill player. So that means you should trade them all and trade every pick right? Except we know even some guys that were probably only going to be run of the mill players actually ended up being really good, even elite players.
Teams that panic and start trading young players for established guys very often end up regretting it.

In the case of Berggren, since I brought him up, I am talking about a guy who turns 23 within a month, broke into the NHL pretty hot and then cooled off remarkably, offers little on the defensive side of the puck, and projects to be a quality middle 6 playmaking type on a team that currently has nobody who can consistently put the puck in the net.

I'm using that piece in a package to go get a player who is 25.5, who has multiple 40 goal seasons, seems to have a consistent floor of mid to high 20s in terms of goals, has a skill set that the Wings are sorely lacking, and offers equally nothing on the defensive side of the puck. He is a top line player today and is 2 and a half years older.

We have depth in the pipeline today. We don't have top end talent. I'm not emptying all my depth chasing a bunch of established players, but if a top line goal scorer is available and it costs me some futures that require a lot of positive projection to achieve the same level, then you have the capacity to make that deal when it arises. I'm not saying you have to get EVERY established player. I'm saying be selective; pick and choose the right time to add significant pieces by consolidating assets into more valuable ones. Or do what you prefer and continue rebuilding by adding mediocre after mediocre after mediocre.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I'd say this is quite a talented team.. Stevie is close to nailing it!

Andrew Copp - Dylan Larkin - David Perron
Dominik Kubalík - Robby Fabbri - Lucas Raymond
Jonatan Berggren - Marco Kasper - Filip Zadina
Michael Rasmussen - Joe Veleno - Elmer Söderblom
Carter Mazur - Amadeus Lombardi - Cross Hanas

Ben Chiarot - Erik Karlsson (for the firstrounder and Wallinder, 1.5 retained)
Olli Määttä - Moritz Seider
Jake Walman - Gustav Lindström
Simon Edvinsson

Ville Husso
Sebastian Cossa

If you think this is a talented team you need to look at other teams rosters, man. This team would finish in the bottom 8 again.

 

[Henkka]

If we bolster for Karlsson, for sure we bolster also for offence.

It will be Yzerman using all cap space, if we get Karlsson. That's just a signal for a big push. And you either do a full push, or you don't push at all.

With full push, we are a playoff team. Use the 25 million and use it smart.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I'm not saying that Debrincat is the right guy. But what specifically makes you hesitant about dealing Mazur? He's definitely a outperforming his draft slot, but I don't know that a gritty guy who might become a 15-20 goal player is anywhere near untouchable.

I don't see mazur as untouchable, but I do see him as the kind of guy that everyone loves in the locker room when he is in your locker room. All other teams are going to be annoyed and hate playing against him.

Players similar to that are Reaves and Wilson. Now, I don't like Reaves and honestly I kind of like Wilson, but when you are playing against either one of those players (or similar players like this) you tend to overthink things when they are on the ice.

Mazur is most likely our new Bertuzzi. If he can make sure he doesn't get injured as much as Bert, then Mazur should be here for a long time unless a ridiculous trade offer takes him away. Again, he isn't untouchable, but...

 

[Detroit Knights]

In the case of Berggren, since I brought him up, I am talking about a guy who turns 23 within a month, broke into the NHL pretty hot and then cooled off remarkably, offers little on the defensive side of the puck, and projects to be a quality middle 6 playmaking type on a team that currently has nobody who can consistently put the puck in the net.

I'm using that piece in a package to go get a player who is 25.5, who has multiple 40 goal seasons, seems to have a consistent floor of mid to high 20s in terms of goals, has a skill set that the Wings are sorely lacking, and offers equally nothing on the defensive side of the puck. He is a top line player today and is 2 and a half years older.

We have depth in the pipeline today. We don't have top end talent. I'm not emptying all my depth chasing a bunch of established players, but if a top line goal scorer is available and it costs me some futures that require a lot of positive projection to achieve the same level, then you have the capacity to make that deal when it arises. I'm not saying you have to get EVERY established player. I'm saying be selective; pick and choose the right time to add significant pieces by consolidating assets into more valuable ones. Or do what you prefer and continue rebuilding by adding mediocre after mediocre after mediocre.

I agree mostly with what you are saying, but I wouldn't add berggren to a package with Debrincat. I'd much rather trade him in a package for Keller and/or Connor. It would take more to get those two vs Debrincat (just because of his current status) and I'd rather save that trade chip for one of those guys or someone similar.

 

[Holden Caufield]

It would be an incredibly smart move for Ottawa to trade DeBrincat straight up for Berggren.

Saves them 7+M against the cap. Gives them more player control. And Berggren playing with a good offensive Centre on a much deeper offensive team? He’d probably score 60 points in Ottawa next season.

People around here seem to be down bad on Berggren.
Get him away from Lalonde (also Veleno/Copp are not ideal Centre combos for him) and you would see a world of difference.

 

[Detroit Knights]

It would be an incredibly smart move for Ottawa to trade DeBrincat straight up for Berggren.

Saves them 7+M against the cap. Gives them more player control. And Berggren playing with a good offensive Centre on a much deeper offensive team? He’d probably score 60 points in Ottawa next season.

People around here seem to be down bad on Berggren.
Get him away from Lalonde (also Veleno/Copp are not ideal Centre combos for him) and you would see a world of difference.

I was really excited to see Berggren play for us and first half of the season was amazing to watch a young guy like him do as well as he was. But it just seems like he is not a Lalonde guy for some reason.

I agree with you, Copp/Veleno are terrible linemates for him. Not because they are bad or whatever, but because Berggren needs that center that drives the play. So that would mean Larkin, but Berggren doesn't seem to have the defensive ability to play against guys like Tavares/Mathews/Tkachuks/Marchand/etc. If we had a play driving, point producing second line center (keller....) then I could see Berggren rounding out his game quite nicely.

Unfortunately, he seems to be turning into a replica of Nyquist. Which is hilarious to think about because when Nyquist made the team in his first year, he was doing things that reminded me of how Datsyuk played (minus the famous Datsyuk reverse hit shoulder) and Berggren was reminding me of how Datsyuk made some those passes he always did. I guess from now on, if I see a player play with a Datsyuk-esque game, I will just automatically write them off :/

 

[norrisnick]

If we bolster for Karlsson, for sure we bolster also for offence.

It will be Yzerman using all cap space, if we get Karlsson. That's just a signal for a big push. And you either do a full push, or you don't push at all.

With full push, we are a playoff team. Use the 25 million and use it smart.

It's only $10M because at least $15M of it needs to be reserved for new contracts next summer. And I don't see this board pushing any 1 year contracts in their acquisitions. It's all big money with full term.

 

[Holden Caufield]

I was really excited to see Berggren play for us and first half of the season was amazing to watch a young guy like him do as well as he was. But it just seems like he is not a Lalonde guy for some reason.

I agree with you, Copp/Veleno are terrible linemates for him. Not because they are bad or whatever, but because Berggren needs that center that drives the play. So that would mean Larkin,

Yes, he looked very good at first.
His game fell off when he was healthy scratched after a long run of consistently drawing into the lineup.

He was scratched during that big back/back against Ottawa coincidentally (where they murdered us and ended our season).

What happens after a regular gets scratched ? Usually the player meets with coaches and they explain why and what he needs to do to get back into the lineup. Whatever was said… it seemed Berggren’s (offensive) game was gone after that.

 

[norrisnick]

I was really excited to see Berggren play for us and first half of the season was amazing to watch a young guy like him do as well as he was. But it just seems like he is not a Lalonde guy for some reason.

I agree with you, Copp/Veleno are terrible linemates for him. Not because they are bad or whatever, but because Berggren needs that center that drives the play. So that would mean Larkin, but Berggren doesn't seem to have the defensive ability to play against guys like Tavares/Mathews/Tkachuks/Marchand/etc. If we had a play driving, point producing second line center (keller....) then I could see Berggren rounding out his game quite nicely.

Unfortunately, he seems to be turning into a replica of Nyquist. Which is hilarious to think about because when Nyquist made the team in his first year, he was doing things that reminded me of how Datsyuk played (minus the famous Datsyuk reverse hit shoulder) and Berggren was reminding me of how Datsyuk made some those passes he always did. I guess from now on, if I see a player play with a Datsyuk-esque game, I will just automatically write them off :/

Nyquist/Hudler/Tatar/Filppula are very good players. Getting a guy from beyond the 1st round to turn into a player like that is a very very good thing.

I was really excited to see Berggren play for us and first half of the season was amazing to watch a young guy like him do as well as he was. But it just seems like he is not a Lalonde guy for some reason.

I agree with you, Copp/Veleno are terrible linemates for him. Not because they are bad or whatever, but because Berggren needs that center that drives the play. So that would mean Larkin, but Berggren doesn't seem to have the defensive ability to play against guys like Tavares/Mathews/Tkachuks/Marchand/etc. If we had a play driving, point producing second line center (keller....) then I could see Berggren rounding out his game quite nicely.

Unfortunately, he seems to be turning into a replica of Nyquist. Which is hilarious to think about because when Nyquist made the team in his first year, he was doing things that reminded me of how Datsyuk played (minus the famous Datsyuk reverse hit shoulder) and Berggren was reminding me of how Datsyuk made some those passes he always did. I guess from now on, if I see a player play with a Datsyuk-esque game, I will just automatically write them off :/

Coach doesn't like offense. Is what it is.

As for a Berggren addition to trade for DeBrincat, it amuses me that we would be trading our best passer for a shooter.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Nyquist/Hudler/Tatar/Filppula are very good players. Getting a guy from beyond the 1st round to turn into a player like that is a very very good thing.


Coach doesn't like offense. Is what it is.

As for a Berggren addition to trade for DeBrincat, it amuses me that we would be trading our best passer for a shooter.

Regarding your first comments:

I get it. Getting depth guys that are above average and could have been selected much higher in their draft years is a great thing. I agree. But we have always drafted players like that for the past what 7-10 years? Unfortunately, I can see us doing the same thing again in the next 7-10 draft years too.

Second comments:
I do agree with you on this. If we were able to get Debrincat, put Berggren on the 1st line (even though I don't think he has the defensive ability to play on the first line) then we could have Larkin doing the hustle to get the puck, Berggren passing to larkin and Debrincat, and Debrincat to do all the scoring. It would just make sense, which means that scenario won't happen.

Then again, our powerplay with Berggren acting like a Backstrom, Larkin is our Oshi, Debrincat being a semi-ovi type, with probably Rasmussen or Soderblom when he is ready for net front, Seider on the back...not bad..

PP1:
Rasmussen
Larkin - debrincat - Berggren
Seider

PP2:
Soderblom
Kasper - Kubalik - Raymond
Walman

I mean, those are two scoring powerplays. I put Kasper as the bumper because I think he just evolves to that position over time. And...anything to get perron and copp off of the powerplays.

 

[Hen Kolland]

The discourse that followed directly after me bringing up Berggren is a perfect example of when I said that fans get too attached to middle of the lineup prospects. People really think that Berggren is a sleeping giant who is going to randomly pop up as a legit first line winger over night and that somehow it's the team that is holding him back. He completely fell off and looked very overmatched in the second half of the year.

13 points in 22 games through the end of 2022, averaging just under 13 minutes per game.

15 points in 45 games from January through the end of the season, averaging just under 14 minutes per game. This includes a 28 game stretch with 7 points to finish the season.

And somehow this is a player that some of you can't fathom losing to add a player who has scored over 40 goals multiple times? In the prime of his career. Who actively wants to come to Detroit given the chance. Come on guys, let's use some reason here.

 

[Henkka]

I mean, those are two scoring powerplays. I put Kasper as the bumper because I think he just evolves to that position over time. And...anything to get perron and copp off of the powerplays.

Hmmm, Perron is our second best PP player after Larkin... he belongs on the top unit until we sign 2-3 better forwards.

 

[ricky0034]

The discourse that followed directly after me bringing up Berggren is a perfect example of when I said that fans get too attached to middle of the lineup prospects. People really think that Berggren is a sleeping giant who is going to randomly pop up as a legit first line winger over night and that somehow it's the team that is holding him back. He completely fell off and looked very overmatched in the second half of the year.

13 points in 22 games through the end of 2022, averaging just under 13 minutes per game.

15 points in 45 games from January through the end of the season, averaging just under 14 minutes per game. This includes a 28 game stretch with 7 points to finish the season.

And somehow this is a player that some of you can't fathom losing to add a player who has scored over 40 goals multiple times? In the prime of his career. Who actively wants to come to Detroit given the chance. Come on guys, let's use some reason here.

I kinda feel like because he's been around the league for a while now and Berggren has barely seen the NHL yet that people don't fully process that DeBrincat is only 3 years older than Berggren

 

[norrisnick]

The discourse that followed directly after me bringing up Berggren is a perfect example of when I said that fans get too attached to middle of the lineup prospects. People really think that Berggren is a sleeping giant who is going to randomly pop up as a legit first line winger over night and that somehow it's the team that is holding him back. He completely fell off and looked very overmatched in the second half of the year.

13 points in 22 games through the end of 2022, averaging just under 13 minutes per game.

15 points in 45 games from January through the end of the season, averaging just under 14 minutes per game. This includes a 28 game stretch with 7 points to finish the season.

And somehow this is a player that some of you can't fathom losing to add a player who has scored over 40 goals multiple times? In the prime of his career. Who actively wants to come to Detroit given the chance. Come on guys, let's use some reason here.

Fun fact. This coming season Berggren will be the same age as Datsyuk was his rookie year.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I kinda feel like because he's been around the league for a while now and Berggren has barely seen the NHL yet that people don't fully process that DeBrincat is only 3 years older than Berggren

Not even 3 years.

Fun fact. This coming season Berggren will be the same age as Datsyuk was his rookie year.

Surely you are not trying to compare and project Berggren to be like Datsyuk, who went on to be the best player in the entire world for a short period of time, just because of coincidental timelines.

Fun fact. This coming season, Berggren will be the same age that Debrincat scored 32 goals and 56 points in 52 games (Covid shortened season). Meaning he was well on his way to his second career 40+ goal season. He was second in the league in goals per game that year behind only Auston Matthews.

But tell me more about how Berggren's potential is so much more valuable than things DeBrincat has already proven he can do...

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I don't think I'd do it or that Stevie is likely to do it but I think you could make some major transformations on this team if you wanted to.

#2 for #9 & Edvidsson
- You only do this if you think WW has top 2 potential but it gives you your future number 1 center.

Boston 1st + 41+ Aljo for Pesce
Gives you your 2nd pairing RD for the next 5ish years

#17 + Mazur + 42 & Fabbri for Debrincat
Gives you a big time goal scorerer.

Kubalik-Larkin- Debrincat
Ray-Fantilli-Ras
Berggy-Copp-Soderblom
Perron-Veleno- Kasper

Walman- Seider
Matta- Pesce
Chiarot- UFA

Thats 4 solid scoring lines, two solid pairs (and the Chiarot mess).

It leaves you basically with only Cossa, Wallinder, and Lombardi as viable prospects though as everyone else has major questions and even those 3 have some questions.

I hate all of your trades in this post.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Hmmm, Perron is our second best PP player after Larkin... he belongs on the top unit until we sign 2-3 better forwards.

He continues to shoot the puck wide, making it go out of the zone regardless of PP or not.
He shows patience with the puck which is phenomenal, but when challenged he loses it often.
He thinks he has a shot like ovi and when he tries, it is like a 5 mph beach ball coming at the goalie.
He is slow.
Refuses to backcheck if the guy is more than 3 strides ahead of him.

He seems like a nice guy and good at the locker room stuff like people on here are saying before. But that would be great qualities for a 3rd liner (obviously not 4th because he is just too damn slow and has to play somewhere I guess) because of the stuff I said above.

The lines I gave for our PP with the edition of only Debrincat is miles better than what perron could give us on the PP. On one or two. Everyone is infatuated with him because for some strange reason his name holds a lot of weight. That is literally all he is at this point, his name and it would be great if we could trade him for a second or 1st like he probably would get for some stupid reason, but I don't see Yzerman trading him.

EDIT: Also, he is "the best" powerplay player we have behind larkin because he holds on to the puck far too long, which forces no possible way he doesn't get a point. If we would move the puck around constantly like the Edmonton Oilers have done, he would get A LOT less points on the powerplay because it would force him to pass and move a hell of a lot more than he currently does.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The discourse that followed directly after me bringing up Berggren is a perfect example of when I said that fans get too attached to middle of the lineup prospects. People really think that Berggren is a sleeping giant who is going to randomly pop up as a legit first line winger over night and that somehow it's the team that is holding him back. He completely fell off and looked very overmatched in the second half of the year.

13 points in 22 games through the end of 2022, averaging just under 13 minutes per game.

15 points in 45 games from January through the end of the season, averaging just under 14 minutes per game. This includes a 28 game stretch with 7 points to finish the season.

And somehow this is a player that some of you can't fathom losing to add a player who has scored over 40 goals multiple times? In the prime of his career. Who actively wants to come to Detroit given the chance. Come on guys, let's use some reason here.

I am happy to trade Berggren but not for Debrincat. I straight up don’t want Debrincat. He isn’t a difference maker. Ottawa’s pick is 3 spots below ours and they had Stutzle, Tkachuk, Giroux, and others for him to play with. Cat is a one trick pony with his shot and our forwards already get pushed around. The addition of a very short pure shooter isn’t the answer.

He will not push the needle in Detroit and we need to be using our tradeable assets for guys that will be core players, not guys that will just help us be mediocre.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I hate all of your trades in this post.

That 17th/42/mazur/Fabbri for debrincat made me throw up in my mouth for a second lmao. The one for Pesce could be considered obscene lol.