Trade Deadline- What to Do??

[AmericanDream]

if people want to move Hartman, then I will stick with my good ol' Canadiens trading partners:

To Montreal

Ryan Hartman - LW
Artem Anisimov - C
2018 3rd round pick

To Chicago

Jeff Petry - D
Phillip Danault - C

I know many people want Danault back and he helps ease the loss of Anisimov, and I get my right handed dman in Petry

 

[Rolo]

if people want to move Hartman, then I will stick with my good ol' Canadiens trading partners:

To Montreal

Ryan Hartman - LW
Artem Anisimov - C
2018 3rd round pick

To Chicago

Jeff Petry - D
Phillip Danault - C

I know many people want Danault back and he helps ease the loss of Anisimov, and I get my right handed dman in Petry

Why add another old, albatross contract?

Toews 10.5
Saad 6
Seabrook 6.875
Petry 5.5

You can get a lot more from Hartman and AA in individual trades.

 

[AmericanDream]

Why add another old, albatross contract?

Toews 10.5
Saad 6
Seabrook 6.875
Petry 5.5

You can get a lot more from Hartman and AA in individual trades.

3 years left and 30 years old - is old and albatross?

right handed dmen do not grow on trees...it is a basic swap salary wise with Anisimov making $1mil less than Petry...

 

[CallMeShaft]

A few ideas off the top of my head for what I would look at trying to do in the offseason:

If our first lands in the 10-15 range, I wonder if Yotes would bite on that 1st and Hossa's contract, for Domi. Arizona is a cap floor type of team, so they could manage just fine with Hossa's contract because they'd have the cap space and it wouldn't cost anything in actual dollars. A first in that range would also help them once again rebuild/retool.

We get cap savings of around $5m for the next three years and Max Domi, who has skills, but needs a change of scenery and would have Duclair and Murphy with him here.

The Hawks than trade Anisimov and pick up some help on the back. With Oesterle and Murphy able to play both sides, handedness won't need to come into play all too much. AmericanDream mentioned Petry, and I'd be interested in doing that deal. Like he said, it'd give us about a million more in cap space.

Then I would start signing some of our restricted free agents (Hartman, Hino, Jurco, Gustafsson, Duclair, Domi), some of our UFAs (Wingels, Rutta), and look at extending Schmaltz.

Roll with something along these lines next year:

DeBrincat-Toews-Sikura
Saad-Schmaltz-Kane
Domi-Hartman-Duclair
Jurco-Kampf-Hinostroza
Wingels

Keith-Oesterle
Forsling-Petry
Murphy-Seabrook
Rutta/Gustafsson

Crawford
Forsberg


Not sure how Sikura would do, so he could be moved to 3RW/3C/2LW, if need be. But considering the chemistry that Domi and Duclair have, I would at least like to see them play a bit with each other.

But (hopefully not) Q, could roll all 4 lines. Each line is fast, can generate chances, and would be decent defensively. That forward group might be the fastest in the league.

Defense would hopefully improve with Petry added. Obviously a lot depends on how much worse Keith and Seabs get, but Forsling, Murphy, and Oesterle would likely improve, so hopefully that would balance that out.

 

[Pez68]

we do have youngsters on the way in Jokiharju, Snuggy, Barratt, Hayden (full-time), Sikura, etc.. none of them will be game changers, but all "should" be serviceable NHLers that can fill a few holes for years to come.

I am fine if we stand pat, I just don't see that happening. We need help on defense, we need someone that can get some pucks to the goaltender through traffic from the point. That is something most teams covet, but I can definitely see Stan looking to get 1 or 2 players by the deadline just to shake things up further.

I brought up Montreal earlier in the thread, but a guy like Jeff Petry who I have liked for years would look very good here. Montreal is desperate for centers, so maybe move :

Anisimov - C
2018 3rd round pick or whatever pick/prospect combo

for Petry - D

Petry has a $5.5 mil cap hit which isn't horrible at all with about 3 years left on it after this year

Anisimov and his cap hit leave and we land a top pairing dman and a right shot to boot for about $1mil more per year...

Petry has a NMC, same as Anisimov, but I would seriously think he would waive it to come to Chicago ...both similar in age as well.

What an awful trade. Petry is f***ing terrible.

 

[pvr]

^^Nicely thought out post, CMS. However, I hope to hell SB wouldn’t trade any first round pick going forward unless singular talent is coming back, and certainly not for Domi.

Also, that lineup likely doesn’t make the playoffs unless the youngsters really shine.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Domi has shown he can produce?

I do not get what you see (and DHF) with Domi to be honest - he had a solid rookie year, since then he has been very underwhelming.

Hartman is in his second season, Domi in his 3rd - Hartman will outproduce his own rookie season which Domi did not in his sophomore year - to be fair Domi did miss a lot of time, but he was different out there and not scoring goals like he did in his rookie season.

Domi has 3 goals this year, 3...and you want to trade Hartman and others away for him??? Hartman isn't lighting the world on fire either with 7, but I just don't see a gap between the two to be honest to warrant a trade..

I usually support your opinions, but not this one...I think you can land Domi for less than Hartman if this is a guy people think can help, a pick and a decent prospect at this point.

Hartman has twice as many goals the last 2 seasons than Domi- that says enough for me.

D0mi scores 52 points as a sophomore if he plays 82 games...

I was leading the charge that Hartman was more talented than some thought. Domi is on another level of talent. He's been awful this year, n0 doubt. I'd still be down to gamble on a player with his talent for a guy who at best plays third line for this team.

 

[Pez68]

The Hawks absolutely should not trade their 1st rounder unless they are getting a young top 4 defenseman or top six player in return. And I mean a stud. Top 10 picks don't grow on trees.

I can't believe some are even considering it. This is, based on all I've read, a great, deep draft year. Hawks WILL get a big piece with their 1st round pick. Probably one that makes the team next season.

 

[looseneditforyou]

There is pretty strong evidence you don't know much about HJ. He was the Finns best D at the WJC after being the 5-6th ranked Finnish D at the draft. Anyone who has watched him would know he has taken big strides since the draft. Ian Mitchell is also not just a product of "hype" as Denver is a really strong programs and JM knows how to develop NHL players. Those are just two prospect. Pipeline wise the Hawks have 5-6 D that can be NHL D on a winning team. Not all top 3 D but there are a few that have top 3 potential and a few that have bottom 3 potential.

Free agency is not how you fix a team structured like the Hawks are.

I watched HJ throughout the tourney and have streamed several of his CHL games. He's a solid prospect who will likely have an NHL career. In general, your post is exactly the kind of hype I'm talking about. "Hey, there's no evidence this specific set of positive events can't take place and varying levels of probability each of them might, so when most of them do we'll be in great shape!" Most of the contingencies you mention simply won't happen. A few will, and that's fine.

 

[looseneditforyou]

D0mi scores 52 points as a sophomore if he plays 82 games...

I was leading the charge that Hartman was more talented than some thought. Domi is on another level of talent. He's been awful this year, n0 doubt. I'd still be down to gamble on a player with his talent for a guy who at best plays third line for this team.

So would I. But I'd way rather target a young defenceman and hope Crawford gets healthy. Either option probably involves trading picks, and this is the fork in the road. Can this team contend for a couple more years? I don't think there's any course of action that makes it likely, but help on D will be necessary if the team goes that route. And Domi won't be cheap. I think he'll get at least a first round pick from someone.

 

[AmericanDream]

What an awful trade. Petry is ****ing terrible.

okay BWC...what on Earth are you talking about?

Petry is near the top 30 in scoring for dmen and averaging almost 24 minutes a night on a shit team...yep, he is terrible lol!

Petry will never be the major point-producer that Erik Karlsson or P.K. Subban are, yet he provides value beyond point totals. Petry continues to be a major possession driver on a defence that has very little offensive firepower. At five-versus-five this year, and with at least 50 minutes played together, only two Canadiens players have a negative shot-attempt differential while playing with Petry: Joe Morrow and Alex Galchenyuk.

Looking at the WoWY (With or Without You) chart above, almost every single player on the team is worse in terms of possession when playing without Petry, with the only two major exceptions being the aforementioned Galchenyuk and Morrow.

Even more substantial is the above chart which approximates how the Canadiens defencemen would fare if Petry were absent from the lineup, versus how Petry would fare if each defencemen were respectively removed.

Sorry, but if we could land Petry right now for Anisimov and whatever, you do it and run away like thieves....Please Mr. Bergevin, pick up the phone!!

 

[BK]

I watched HJ throughout the tourney and have streamed several of his CHL games. He's a solid prospect who will likely have an NHL career. In general, your post is exactly the kind of hype I'm talking about. "Hey, there's no evidence this specific set of positive events can't take place and varying levels of probability each of them might, so when most of them do we'll be in great shape!" Most of the contingencies you mention simply won't happen. A few will, and that's fine.

HJ's skill set directly translates to the NHL's new style (as do IM). Your post is the typical "I saw them a few times so I know how they translate". You are the opposite of hype but with little knowledge of the prospect. Both prospects at this point have top 3-4 trajectory. Superstars? No but no one is claiming that,

 

[looseneditforyou]

HJ's skill set directly translates to the NHL's new style (as do IM). Your post is the typical "I saw them a few times so I know how they translate". You are the opposite of hype but with little knowledge of the prospect. Both prospects at this point have top 3-4 trajectory. Superstars? No but no one is claiming that,

Nor did I say anyone did -- that's a straw man. Most of the prospects that could be described the way you've described HJ and Mitchell will fail or have unremarkable careers. You're counting on most of our D prospects to succeed and reach almost all of their potential. Based on our historical knowledge of what prospects/groups of prospects actually tend to achieve compared to initial expectations, this is an unlikely outcome. It's an obvious conclusion and I'm running out of ways to rephrase it. The prospect pool is below average at every position. That's okay. It will produce some NHL players, and it can be improved along the way.

 

[BK]

Nor did I say anyone did -- that's a straw man. Most of the prospects that could be described the way you've described HJ and Mitchell will fail or have unremarkable careers. You're counting on most of our D prospects to succeed and reach almost all of their potential. Based on our historical knowledge of what prospects/groups of prospects actually tend to achieve compared to initial expectations, this is an unlikely outcome. It's an obvious conclusion and I'm running out of ways to rephrase it. The prospect pool is below average at every position. That's okay. It will produce some NHL players, and it can be improved along the way.

This can literally be said for most prospect. HJ or IM have a good chance of turning out to be top 4 D. Progression is progression and both players have made large to huge strides since being drafted. Your claims of "not likely" screams of someone who has not seen them play. Counting on prospects is how teams maintain winning teams as players price themselves out of the market. This is what they Hawks have done for a decade. HJ and IM are not just your run of the mill prospect. This is what you are missing.

 

[AmericanDream]

D0mi scores 52 points as a sophomore if he plays 82 games...

I was leading the charge that Hartman was more talented than some thought. Domi is on another level of talent. He's been awful this year, n0 doubt. I'd still be down to gamble on a player with his talent for a guy who at best plays third line for this team.

that was 3 years ago DHF - I don't think he has the brain for the game anymore - but you are a great judge of talent as well, if you like the guy and think he can do well...I concede!!

 

[TLEH]

If Ian Mitchell doesn’t end up an NHL player playing 18 minutes a night I’ll be shocked. I think he has higher upside than even Jokiharju based off what I have seen.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

that was 3 years ago DHF - I don't think he has the brain for the game anymore - but you are a great judge of talent as well, if you like the guy and think he can do well...I concede!!

You don't go from smart to stupid in 3 years unless he's been playing left guard in the NFL. He's young enough to be salvaged. Arizona is poison for a young hockey player. He definitely needs a reboot. They're trying to turn him into a two way center. He's not that.

The Coyotes shouldn't be turning their Mustang into a Honda Civic. It's not the Mustang's fault it doesn't handle well in the snow.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Teams like Arizona stay bad by selling on talented young guys like Duclair and Domi. Rebuilding teams shouldn't be moving talented 22 year olds for futures.

 

[dk2k]

[QUOTE="DisgruntledHawkFan, post: 141112039, member: 19847"]You don't go from smart to stupid in 3 years unless he's been playing left guard in the NFL. He's young enough to be salvaged. Arizona is poison for a young hockey player. He definitely needs a reboot. They're trying to turn him into a two way center. He's not that.

The Coyotes shouldn't be turning their Mustang into a Honda Civic. It's not the Mustang's fault it doesn't handle well in the snow.[/QUOTE]
...and yet, Toews, Seabrook.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

[QUOTE="DisgruntledHawkFan, post: 141112039, member: 19847"]You don't go from smart to stupid in 3 years unless he's been playing left guard in the NFL. He's young enough to be salvaged. Arizona is poison for a young hockey player. He definitely needs a reboot. They're trying to turn him into a two way center. He's not that.

The Coyotes shouldn't be turning their Mustang into a Honda Civic. It's not the Mustang's fault it doesn't handle well in the snow.

...and yet, Toews, Seabrook.[/QUOTE]

They aren't stupid. Just broken.

 

[AmericanDream]

You don't go from smart to stupid in 3 years unless he's been playing left guard in the NFL. He's young enough to be salvaged. Arizona is poison for a young hockey player. He definitely needs a reboot. They're trying to turn him into a two way center. He's not that.

The Coyotes shouldn't be turning their Mustang into a Honda Civic. It's not the Mustang's fault it doesn't handle well in the snow.

to be honest, I never thought he really had it between the ears to begin with...his decision making and on-ice IQ is holding him back....and don't start pissing off the rice burner crowd and their pimped out Civics!

 

[AmericanDream]

Teams like Arizona stay bad by selling on talented young guys like Duclair and Domi. Rebuilding teams shouldn't be moving talented 22 year olds for futures.

to be fair, Duclair is now on his third team, so Arizona isn't the only one who hasn't seen enough from him. Just from his play with the Hawks I can see a player that tantalizes you with raw ability but likely always keep you wanting more from him. Similar player to Chris Kreider who has all the damn skill in the world - world class speed and shot, yet never hits over 30 goals. 6'3 225lbs with absolute jets, dude should be dominating not leaving people going what the f*** some nights...I see the same with Duclair.

sometimes you have to know when to fold them, and with the amount of talented youth the Coyotes have coming up, they have no time to waste on guys stagnating or not giving it their all every night. them moving Duclair and Domi I see as not a failure but as a way to make room for other promising players.

they traded Duclair away for an older player, that tells me everything I need to know that they just aren't trying to build assets, they are trying to build winners together and they simply do not envision Duclair and Domi as their core players.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

If the Coyotes had been properly using Duclair and Domi I'd agree with you.

 

[Pez68]

okay BWC...what on Earth are you talking about?

Petry is near the top 30 in scoring for dmen and averaging almost 24 minutes a night on a **** team...yep, he is terrible lol!

Petry will never be the major point-producer that Erik Karlsson or P.K. Subban are, yet he provides value beyond point totals. Petry continues to be a major possession driver on a defence that has very little offensive firepower. At five-versus-five this year, and with at least 50 minutes played together, only two Canadiens players have a negative shot-attempt differential while playing with Petry: Joe Morrow and Alex Galchenyuk.

Looking at the WoWY (With or Without You) chart above, almost every single player on the team is worse in terms of possession when playing without Petry, with the only two major exceptions being the aforementioned Galchenyuk and Morrow.

Even more substantial is the above chart which approximates how the Canadiens defencemen would fare if Petry were absent from the lineup, versus how Petry would fare if each defencemen were respectively removed.

Sorry, but if we could land Petry right now for Anisimov and whatever, you do it and run away like thieves....Please Mr. Bergevin, pick up the phone!!

That's all well and good. He's...-23 on the season. I don't give a shit about his advanced stats. He's a sieve, defensively. Only two guys on that team are worse. He doesn't help this team at all. He's also 30 years old, and being paid 5.5M. And he has a NTC/NMC. He is only declining from here on out.... The Hawks need exactly ZERO additional 30+ defensemen. They need to get younger, and cheaper.

 

[TLEH]

If hawks win next 3 games, they’ll be back in the hunt. If they lose 2 of them. I will 100% finally believe they won’t make it. Huge games this week. Calgary, dallas, Minnesota