Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2022 - Off-season

[Bluelines]

Report: Leafs talks intensifying around acquiring Murray

I know it's just a rumor but I've been hearing a lot of talk about the leaf's and Murray not just from HockeyBuzz.

I really hope this isn't true and doesn't happen, We just got rid of a injury prone goalie on a horrible contract. We don't need another one, If that's our option I'd much rather keep Campbell.

Yeay saw the same thing, its scary to go into the season with a hope and a prayer.

 

[Bluelines]

It seems like it's a matter of when not if at this point.

This deal is going to define Dubas' tenure IMO. If the additional asset isn't significant AND there isn't another goalie in the works this is a MASSIVE risk.

Insiders were suggesting it would be Murray + cap retention + a third team + a sweetener to take Murray. in a scenario, TBH not sure how realistic this would be, where Ottawa retains 50%, then the 2nd team say Arizona retains 50%, Toronto could get Murray for less than 2 mil in cap space. Which is smart because a crappy goalie at $6.25 mil ,vs a crappy goalie at less than $2 mill would carry different pressure from toronto fans.

Dahlstrom likely starts as the filler guy, then you start getting into Kral and others yes. I would think we add a right shot depth D though with Boosh gone, Duszak gone, Myers on Tampa and Biega not there. Josh Brown or Andrei Sustr are some big meatheads available.

Dahlstrom looked like he belonged on a NHL team last year. I liked his game, its was low risk, safe not flashy.

 

[Subway Schenn]

Not really worried about the goalie position - though certainly holding onto hope that Jack takes a reasonable contract. Even if he walks, no worries going fishing.

Everyone wants the glamorous option on paper, at the end of the day unless the big guns take us to the next level it ain't happening. It's obvious that teams don't need a star goalie to win a Cup these days....

 

[meefer]

FWIW, I found this article on Murray to be reasonably informative by not just relying on the numbers. There's an attempt to explain the what and why of his time in Ottawa. The explanations and conclusions may not affect one's opinion of Murray, but there is some substance which might explain why the Leafs would be interested in acquiring him with salary retention, either one or two teams.

As trade talks intensify with Ottawa, does Matt Murray make sense for the Maple Leafs?

There’s a good chance that Matt Murray plays for the Toronto Maple Leafs this season. With the Ottawa Senators planning to go forward with a tandem of Anton Forsberg and Filip Gustavsson, trading Murray would free up some spending money ahead of free agency. We know that Murray turned down a...

mapleleafshotstove.com

 

[Warden of the North]

Insiders were suggesting it would be Murray + cap retention + a third team + a sweetener to take Murray. in a scenario, TBH not sure how realistic this would be, where Ottawa retains 50%, then the 2nd team say Arizona retains 50%, Toronto could get Murray for less than 2 mil in cap space. Which is smart because a crappy goalie at $6.25 mil ,vs a crappy goalie at less than $2 mill would carry different pressure from toronto fans.



Dahlstrom looked like he belonged on a NHL team last year. I liked his game, its was low risk, safe not flashy.

Which Insiders?

Regardless, if the plan is Murray as our starter and one of the kids as backup, Dubas is gambling his career IMO. That has the potential to go downhill fast

 

[Sypher04]

Man listening to Colaiacovo on TSN1050 is the worst. He’s such a blow hard and full of shit. I understand being unsure about Murray, I’m there with everyone else with concerns, but god he is annoying

 

[Eye Test]

surprised people want to let engval go. He’s the exact type of player teams want in their bottom 6. I’m all about physical hockey and I don’t have any issues with Engval.

Imo kampf and engvall are locks for the bottom 6 on opening day. Besides them we need to inject some physicality.

Jack potentially going to Edmonton makes me wanna puke little bit. For a team whose fanbase hates everything Toronto so much, they sure do love going after our players lol

Jack is a great goalie when he is confident. If he signs in Edmonton I think they willl eat him up even more than Toronto and he will lose his confidence. They don’t have a leadership group like we do here.

 

[deprw]

It seems like it's a matter of when not if at this point.

This deal is going to define Dubas' tenure IMO. If the additional asset isnt significant AND there isn't another goalie in the works this is a MASSIVE risk.

This is important decision for Dubas and probably affects how we view his tenure, if he fails I think goalies will be seen as his downfall here. There is already lots of history here with McElhinney, Sparks, Andersen, Mrazek and now with Campbell if we let him walk.

For his sake he has to nail this. Build wise and being cap comply in the future this Murray signing might be blessing in disguise. If this goes south, it will be soon over and we can easily restart. If Campbell goes south, it won't be cheap mistake to fix.

Outside of goalies I think we're build to contend next season and have enough cap space, assets and players in the market to build even better team than last year.

But... If we build it on the sand it doesn't matter how strong that roster is if we can't get at least mediocre goaltending in the playoffs time.

 

[deprw]

It’s not at all my first choice, but having Brown for a year would still be very useful. But yes, it wouldn’t help us long term. It is a sweetener, even if it’s not enough to everyone.

I would think Kerfoot goes regardless if we have Brown, whether it’s in the same deal or to a different team. That said, it’d be ideal to get longer term pieces in both deals

I don't see any reason to dump Kerfoot somewhere, if we can get good value and maybe keep some pieces of Kadri trade beyond next season it would be nice. He is very good player for that cap hit and need to be replaced, but his contract probably makes him interesting to other teams and if we can milk it we should do it.

One for one I wouldn't replace him just for sake of making moves. Though I see Brown as piece I could see filling his shoes. Brown can PK, PP and is from Toronto. He has the will and the skill, if we can use that Kerfoot contract and replace him with Brown + add something to the overall transaction I think it could be win-win.

Brown can't be the main sweetener. In best case scenario we could get Murray, replace Kerfoot with Brown and get one good young player that would be here even if we lose Brown next summer.

I think the interesting thing in this Murray trade is the added value and how much we could get it. We should go big for next year. Every other contending team has lost assets this summer, if we can keep our core + add something extra, that would be huge. Ottawa has good talent pool to dive on.

We just need also good goaltending. I don't know if I would bet my future on Murray, but we'll see.

 

[aingefan]

Again, the AAV and term on Murray retained at 50% is less risk than other options. He doesn’t need to be anything more than league average. The injury risk sounds concerning, his performance hasn’t been fluid, but this is a chance for a reset. Big test for the new goaltending department.
I’m hoping the target is Pinto. Seems like a perfect prospect fit. C-W with size in the right side, can side over to C when JT transitions.
If TO can end up with Murray retained at 50% and Pinto, even if it costs Kerfoot, I think it’s a big potential win.

 

[Thornbury]

Insiders were suggesting it would be Murray + cap retention + a third team + a sweetener to take Murray. in a scenario, TBH not sure how realistic this would be, where Ottawa retains 50%, then the 2nd team say Arizona retains 50%, Toronto could get Murray for less than 2 mil in cap space. Which is smart because a crappy goalie at $6.25 mil ,vs a crappy goalie at less than $2 mill would carry different pressure from toronto fans.



Dahlstrom looked like he belonged on a NHL team last year. I liked his game, its was low risk, safe not flashy.

If a team retains say $2 million of a $6 million dollar contract, are they responsible for paying that $2 million, or do they pay nothing but retain a $2 million cap hit?

 

[Bluelines]

Which Insiders?

Regardless, if the plan is Murray as our starter and one of the kids as backup, Dubas is gambling his career IMO. That has the potential to go downhill fast

I agree, I think it was Fox that said it, I was half watching a fan youtube channel when they brought up "insider" talk. they mentioned that an insider said there could be a third team involved in the Murray to Leafs trade.

 

[Sypher04]

I don't see any reason to dump Kerfoot somewhere, if we can get good value and maybe keep some pieces of Kadri trade beyond next season it would be nice. He is very good player for that cap hit and need to be replaced, but his contract probably makes him interesting to other teams and if we can milk it we should do it.

One for one I wouldn't replace him just for sake of making moves. Though I see Brown as piece I could see filling his shoes. Brown can PK, PP and is from Toronto. He has the will and the skill, if we can use that Kerfoot contract and replace him with Brown + add something to the overall transaction I think it could be win-win.

Brown can't be the main sweetener. In best case scenario we could get Murray, replace Kerfoot with Brown and get one good young player that would be here even if we lose Brown next summer.

I think the interesting thing in this Murray trade is the added value and how much we could get it. We should go big for next year. Every other contending team has lost assets this summer, if we can keep our core + add something extra, that would be huge. Ottawa has good talent pool to dive on.

We just need also good goaltending. I don't know if I would bet my future on Murray, but we'll see.

I’m definitely not suggesting dumping a Kerfoot. And definitely not for the sake of moving him either. I’d expect full value return. I just think we likely would explore redistributing his cap on players who bring some different elements to our depth and ideally with some term if Brown were to be acquired.

 

[Warden of the North]

Man listening to Colaiacovo on TSN1050 is the worst. He’s such a blow hard and full of shit. I understand being unsure about Murray, I’m there with everyone else with concerns, but god he is annoying

I cant stand him.

Hes a major hockey bro without the good hockey analysis that O'Neill provides.

 

[The Podium]

Man listening to Colaiacovo on TSN1050 is the worst. He’s such a blow hard and full of shit. I understand being unsure about Murray, I’m there with everyone else with concerns, but god he is annoying

It is wild how little Carlo knows about hockey despite being a long term NHLer

 

[conFABulator]

I don't see any reason to dump Kerfoot somewhere, if we can get good value and maybe keep some pieces of Kadri trade beyond next season it would be nice. He is very good player for that cap hit and need to be replaced, but his contract probably makes him interesting to other teams and if we can milk it we should do it.

One for one I wouldn't replace him just for sake of making moves. Though I see Brown as piece I could see filling his shoes. Brown can PK, PP and is from Toronto. He has the will and the skill, if we can use that Kerfoot contract and replace him with Brown + add something to the overall transaction I think it could be win-win.

Brown can't be the main sweetener. In best case scenario we could get Murray, replace Kerfoot with Brown and get one good young player that would be here even if we lose Brown next summer.

I think the interesting thing in this Murray trade is the added value and how much we could get it. We should go big for next year. Every other contending team has lost assets this summer, if we can keep our core + add something extra, that would be huge. Ottawa has good talent pool to dive on.

We just need also good goaltending. I don't know if I would bet my future on Murray, but we'll see.

I agree that Kerfoot is not a dump and should not be dumped. What do you think of this move though?

Toronto gets:

Connor Brown
Matt Murray (@75% retained)
Alex Nedjelkovic

Detroit gets:

Kerfoot
Holl
Eats 50% on Murray (~3)

Ottawa gets:

Detroit 5th
Toronto 4th
Eats 25% on Murray (~1.5M)

Toronto gets a goalie tandem for 4.5M, Connor Brown replaces Kerfoot and we sign Lyubushkin to replace Holl

 

[Brobust]

Insiders were suggesting it would be Murray + cap retention + a third team + a sweetener to take Murray. in a scenario, TBH not sure how realistic this would be, where Ottawa retains 50%, then the 2nd team say Arizona retains 50%, Toronto could get Murray for less than 2 mil in cap space. Which is smart because a crappy goalie at $6.25 mil ,vs a crappy goalie at less than $2 mill would carry different pressure from toronto fans.



Dahlstrom looked like he belonged on a NHL team last year. I liked his game, its was low risk, safe not flashy.

Ottawa only saves $2.5M by retaining 50%. I think it's likely something like 25-30%($5M) and a further 20% ($2M) by another team.

 

[Dreakmur]

If a team retains say $2 million of a $6 million dollar contract, are they responsible for paying that $2 million, or do they pay nothing but retain a $2 million cap hit?

Depends on the contract structure, since the salary doesn’t often match the cap hit. If they retain 50% of the contract, that’s 50% of both salary and cap hit even if those numbers are different.

 

[Sypher04]

Ottawa only saves $2.5M by retaining 50%. I think it's likely something like 25-30%($5M) and a further 20% ($2M) by another team.

Huh? Murray is owed 15m in salary. Retaining 50% of his salary saves them 7.5m. Unless you mean vs buyout? His contract has no signing bonuses, it’s all base salary

 

[Brobust]

Huh? Murray is owed 15m in salary. Retaining 50% of his salary saves them 7.5m. Unless you mean vs buyout?

It's trade vs buyout. They are not keeping him.

 

[Sypher04]

It's trade vs buyout. They are not keeping him.

Either way, 50% retention seems most advantageous for them. Looping in a third team will just make the deal more expensive for them, asset wise

 

[ErnieLeafs]

 

[BertCorbeau]

Oilers going after all the Leafs

 

[613Leafer]

Man listening to Colaiacovo on TSN1050 is the worst. He’s such a blow hard and full of shit. I understand being unsure about Murray, I’m there with everyone else with concerns, but god he is annoying

Yea, he's awful. Whenever he's on Overdrive as a guest, I worry about him getting added in if one of the three leave at some point.

 

[deprw]

I agree that Kerfoot is not a dump and should not be dumped. What do you think of this move though?

Toronto gets:

Connor Brown
Matt Murray (@75% retained)
Alex Nedjelkovic

Detroit gets:

Kerfoot
Holl
Eats 50% on Murray (~3)

Ottawa gets:

Detroit 5th
Toronto 4th
Eats 25% on Murray (~1.5M)

Toronto gets a goalie tandem for 4.5M, Connor Brown replaces Kerfoot and we sign Lyubushkin to replace Holl

I don't know if Nedjelkovic has so much positive value, that we can give up both Kerfoot and Holl. We also give up 4th rounder. Ottawa eats 25% and loses only Brown + gets two picks. Detroit basicly gets rid of Nedjelkovic and gets two good roster players for eating that cap.

Nedjelkovic wasn't that good they anticipated in Detroit and I see it Mrazek lite situation there. They also rebuilding so they might just keep him with Husso and tryout which one will be their long term solution. If one bombs out they just ride out the contract and move on. They have time and cap space.

Oilers going after all the Leafs

I think this is worrying. Oilers aren't known of being good talent evaluator. Do we make some mistakes here, since they want to add all of our ex-players?