Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 - Post Deadline

[WTFMAN99]

Sure but you consider it when someone comes to you with a very good offer. You also get 7 million in cap space.

If you've followed the thread, it's been a pretty level headed discussion regarding the pros and cons of potentially making a Nylander trade.

Will it happen? Maybe

Do we all want to like the return? Yes.

So let's look at those options, another option on Nashville is Jeannot, brings a nice element to the top 6.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sure but you consider it when someone comes to you with a very good offer. You also get 7 million in cap space.

If you've followed the thread, it's been a pretty level headed discussion regarding the pros and cons of potentially making a Nylander trade.

My issue isn't with a Nylander trade, although as long as Dubas is GM I don't think it happens.

But if you are going to do it you don't do it for futures, that's a rebuild move this isn't a rebuild

 

[LeafChief]

To be fair in the proposed deal the Ducks only save 3M because they retain 1.4M on Gibson and bring back Holl at 2M. I think it would take a lot to get a team to retain 1.4M for 5 seasons. I would imagine a lot of teams learned from the Leafs when they did this with Kessel. There is only one active retention that lasts 3 seasons+ out and that is Arizona retaining 990k on OEL.

I don't know of an Anaheim deal. I'm talking about the Nashville deal.

My issue isn't with a Nylander trade, although as long as Dubas is GM I don't think it happens.

But if you are going to do it you don't do it for futures, that's a rebuild move this isn't a rebuild

I don't agree. St.Louis did this with Shattenkirk and with Stastny. It's adding assets for a player you aren't certain you'll be able to re-sign. Assets that will help you pretty quickly. Draft picks can be flipped. Prospects can jump to the NHL pretty quickly.

Cap space allows you to spend in UFA.

Like I said earlier, I'd lean keep Nylander but to suggest that trading Nylander for futures suggests a re-build when you have players like Matthews/Marner on the team is just not true.

 

[Americanadian]

I don't know of an Anaheim deal. I'm talking about the Nashville deal.

My bad there. Thought you were quoting the Gibson deal proposed.

 

[Fogelhund]

My issue isn't with a Nylander trade, although as long as Dubas is GM I don't think it happens.

But if you are going to do it you don't do it for futures, that's a rebuild move this isn't a rebuild

That's simply not true. If you are confident that you can sign a UFA to a deal, where a good portion of what Nylander provides, is replaced, plus you get some other assets, it's not a rebuild move.

A couple of examples.

1. To Nashville for Sissons, Tomasino + 1st. Nylander + Holl

or to NJD

For 1st, McLeod, Holtz for Nylander + Holl + 1st

Then sign Reilly Smith, or one of the many other Winger UFA's.

You have to have the capability of seeing beyond one move at a time.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's simply not true. If you are confident that you can sign a UFA to a deal, where a good portion of what Nylander provides, is replaced, plus you get some other assets, it's not a rebuild move.

A couple of examples.

1. To Nashville for Sissons, Tomasino + 1st. Nylander + Holl

or to NJD

For 1st, McLeod, Holtz for Nylander + Holl + 1st

Then sign Reilly Smith, or one of the many other Winger UFA's.

You have to have the capability of seeing beyond one move at a time.

3D chess.

 

[Knies iT]

Marchment has equal value defensively than offensively.

?

Are you suggesting he's good defensively, because he's not.

I'm pro Marchment addition but the Leafs are in a catch 22. They desperately need a chippy 2LW addition that can produce, but the only options that fit the bill are bad defensively (Domi, Marchment, etc.). So you are adding players worse than Kerfoot defensively to a line that is already a liability 5on5 in the d-zone. Nylander makes building a responsible line difficult.

Stylistically, Robertson is perfect there as he projects as a PK'er, but it's a risk to bet on him.

 

[Americanadian]

?

Are you suggesting he's good defensively, because he's not.

I'm pro Marchment addition but the Leafs are in a catch 22. They desperately need a chippy 2LW addition that can produce, but the only options that fit the bill are bad defensively (Domi, Marchment, etc.). So you are adding players worse than Kerfoot defensively to a line that is already a liability 5on5 in the d-zone.

Stylistically, Robertson is perfect there as he projects as a PK'er, but it's a risk to bet on him.

What makes you think Marchment is poor defensively? He was a top 3 forward in defensive WAR/60 this past season (using per 60 because he missed 1/3 of the year). He outscored the opposition 51-24 at ES in 54 games this year. He was predominantly paired with Lundell/Reinhart who aren't exactly defensive stalwarts (Lundell will be one day I'm sure).

Domi is a tire fire defensively I’ll give you that.

 

[WTFMAN99]

?

Are you suggesting he's good defensively, because he's not.

I'm pro Marchment addition but the Leafs are in a catch 22. They desperately need a chippy 2LW addition that can produce, but the only options that fit the bill are bad defensively (Domi, Marchment, etc.). So you are adding players worse than Kerfoot defensively to a line that is already a liability 5on5 in the d-zone. Nylander makes building a responsible line difficult.

Stylistically, Robertson is perfect there as he projects as a PK'er, but it's a risk to bet on him.

What makes you think Marchment is poor defensively? He was a top 3 forward in defensive WAR/60 this past season (using per 60 because he missed 1/3 of the year). He outscored the opposition 51-24 at ES in 54 games this year. He was predominantly paired with Lundell/Reinhart who aren't exactly defensive stalwarts (Lundell will be one day I'm sure).

Domi is a tire fire defensively I’ll give you that.

Could we not do Palat at LW? He's not soft...

Nick Paul although prefer 3rd line role for him.

Not sure on RW options.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd have some interest in Alex Tuch if they're moving Nylander.

 

[Americanadian]

Could we not do Palat at LW? He's not soft...

Nick Paul although prefer 3rd line role for him.

Not sure on RW options.

He's a bit risky. He has every right to ask for a Zuccarello type deal. His next deal will very likely be too much for too long. The appeal of Marchment is he's 4 years younger, presumably cheaper based on track record, throws more hits, and will fight. Marchment also put up more goals/points per game this year than Palat did in any of his 9 seasons. Palat does bring good playoff numbers though.

 

[leafsfan5]

I'd have some interest in Alex Tuch if they're moving Nylander.

Don't think Buffalo moves him, he's a hometown kid who is likely apart of their next leadership group

 

[mydnyte]

I'd have some interest in Alex Tuch if they're moving Nylander.

you want to help Buffalo score even more vs us? ...what else we getting back?

 

[Sebastien]

I'd have some interest in Alex Tuch if they're moving Nylander.

Buffalo will not move alwx tuch, not a chance

 

[Apex Predator]

I don't hate the idea of Nylander for Tomasino + 17OA + something else and using the cap space for maybe two forwards at 4 mill + 3 mill. Could give some more balance.

I lean not trading Nylander but for a deal like the above, it wouldn't be the worst thing. Could lead to a more balanced attack.

I agree with @SprDaVE though in the sense that it's dangerous and replacing 80 points isnt easy.

Trading Nylander I think means more balance and a group of players will try and replace the 80 points. You downgrade on offense but you improve overall game. You give up some goals for better depth and defensive play from the forward defensive side. That’s how I see any Nylander trade going down if there is one. People won’t like any Nylander trade at first glance.

 

[WTFMAN99]

He's a bit risky. He has every right to ask for a Zuccarello type deal. His next deal will very likely be too much for too long. The appeal of Marchment is he's 4 years younger, presumably cheaper based on track record, throws more hits, and will fight. Marchment also put up more goals/points per game this year than Palat did in any of his 9 seasons. Palat does bring good playoff numbers though.

AAV would have to go down the longer term you'd go, 6M x2 years, 5.75M x3, 5.5M x4....

Tampa could dump Killorn to keep Palat though.

 

[ULF_55]

Buffalo will not move alwx tuch, not a chance

I could go for Bo then.

 

[DcW]

No on Necas. Not the right player imo. If trading Sandin, the return would have to be better. I’d be willing to go bigger (Sandin + Willy) for the right player / package

 

[DraftSchmaft]

I don't hate the idea of Nylander for Tomasino + 17OA + something else and using the cap space for maybe two forwards at 4 mill + 3 mill. Could give some more balance.

I lean not trading Nylander but for a deal like the above, it wouldn't be the worst thing. Could lead to a more balanced attack.

I agree with @SprDaVE though in the sense that it's dangerous and replacing 80 points isnt easy.

If Nylander played for another team and we offered that package for him (Nashville) we'd get laughed at. Imagine selling them with "but you can dip into 7 mil worth of UFA players even though building through UFA has never worked for anyone".

 

[Brobust]

If Nylander played for another team and we offered that package for him (Nashville) we'd get laughed at. Imagine selling them with "but you can dip into 7 mil worth of UFA players even though building through UFA has never worked for anyone".

I like Tomasino and think he has a high chance of success so I'm not so against this trade. But there are a lot of other Nylander trades this applies to.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

I like Tomasino and think he has a high chance of success so I'm not so against this trade. But there are a lot of other Nylander trades this applies to.

I honestly don't see how Tomasino + that 17th will have a bigger impact than Nylander + finding something in-house to go with Nylander. Nylander was carrying us into the playoffs straight from his rookie season.

We can always get our own Tomasino in the draft and trade up with our own 20's to get into high teens (hopefully way too high at 32 eventually to trade down(*up) though)

 

[jaric1862]

The leafs don't have the cap space to add any of the big time forward or defencemen UFAs. It's going to be a lot like last year, they'll have to be looking at some overlooked guys in the lower-tier of free agents.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

The leafs don't have the cap space to add any of the big time forward or defencemen UFAs. It's going to be a lot like last year, they'll have to be looking at some overlooked guys in the lower-tier of free agents.

how much ufa garbage you're capable of adding in the off season is not criteria for successfully run team.

Their problem is in 2022/2023 they don't have a cheap seth jarvis or as above, a tomasino ready to go. As I always say, anything non-core related, they are not good with. Our most promising youngster at the moment, Liljegren even has old fingerprints on it. This Knies guy better work out.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

I honestly don't see how Tomasino + that 17th will have a bigger impact than Nylander + finding something in-house to go with Nylander. Nylander was carrying us into the playoffs straight from his rookie season.

We can always get our own Tomasino in the draft and trade up with our own 20's to get into high teens (hopefully way too high at 32 eventually to trade down(*up) though)

Nylander can't be replaced when gone, so trading him for assets you should have already found on your own by now will be time to clean this management out for good.

7 million for UFAS should excite nobody. Nylander will skate circles around anything we add by himself.

 

[ULF_55]

Thing about trading Nylander is then waiting until free agency and see if anyone will sign with you without a premium because they know you're trade bait as soon as you sign.

Of course NMC would be a minimum ask, on top of the 5-7 million in capspace.