Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 Part XI - Deadline Looming

[Havoc]

It's quite clear they want him for those reasons. I'm all for it for the reasons you listed. I just don't know how you can remove Sandin or Liljegren out of the lineup with how they are playing. So it makes for a bit of a weird acquisition, especially if the price is a 2nd + prospect/pick. You can find a Middleton level player (blocks, hits, etc) for the press box without having to pay the premium price.

I'd easily go for Middleton if Muzzin was out for the regular season.

hmmm at his pace these guys are actually not that easy to find. Might be worth the price short term and long term. It's time to start thinking about life after Muzzin. Keefe nailed it last week about what we miss without Muzzin (and he was pretty mediocre this year too, so time to re-stock).

If you go to 18/19 and sort by blocks (look at 120 and above but even staying right at 100 works) and then scan your eyes down the list to pair it with 100+ hits, you'll quickly see these guys aren't players you can get whenever you feel like it.

Edit: Keep in mind his age.

 

[Shooter2x]

hmmm at his pace these guys are actually not that easy to find. Might be worth the price short term and long term. It's time to start thinking about life after Muzzin. Keefe nailed it last week about what we miss without Muzzin (and he was pretty mediocre this year too, so time to re-stock).

If you go to 18/19 and sort by blocks (look at 120 and above but even staying right at 100 works) and then scan your eyes down the list to pair it with 100+ hits, you'll quickly see these guys aren't players you can get whenever you feel like it.

Edit: Keep in mind his age.

There's not a big supply and some of them are frauds like Ceci, so I think what you're trying to say is that if Middleton is a good one, he needs to be scooped.

If you half ass it like we do grit you'll end up with frauds.

If they think Middleton isn't a fraud expect him to be a Leaf.

 

[Havoc]

There's not a big supply and some of them are frauds like Ceci, so I think what you're trying to say is that if Middleton is a good one, he needs to be scooped.

If you half ass it like we do grit you'll end up with frauds.

If they think Middleton isn't a fraud expect him to be a Leaf.

Yeah that's what I meant with the "whenever you feel like". Like I said I don't know anything about Middleton, but I trust them with this after the Kampf signing. They seem to have a knack for this certain kind of move. If they think he's not a fraud, bring him in.

 

[SprDaVE]

hmmm at his pace these guys are actually not that easy to find. Might be worth the price short term and long term. It's time to start thinking about life after Muzzin. Keefe nailed it last week about what we miss without Muzzin (and he was pretty mediocre this year too, so time to re-stock).

If you go to 18/19 and sort by blocks (look at 120 and above but even staying right at 100 works) and then scan your eyes down the list to pair it with 100+ hits, you'll quickly see these guys aren't players you can get whenever you feel like it.

Edit: Keep in mind his age.

I'm ok with going from Dermott to Middleton for depth, maybe Middleton comes in and plays amazingly well and makes it ok to sit out Sandin for a bit.

I think though that you're exaggerating how hard it is to find these players. They aren't that rare or incredibly hard to find most off-seasons. The quality of course makes the price vary a lot.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Two more games until the deadline. Should we just give both games to Kallgren and see how we feel about available goalies afterwards?

 

[Jozay]

 

[SprDaVE]

Two more games until the deadline. Should we just give both games to Kallgren and see how we feel about available goalies afterwards?

2 more games isn't enough to really know either way. The thing to do would be to play Mrazek again and see if he can put a couple good games together, maybe salvage something.

I think Mrazek is done regardless though. There's no way back from his horrible season. Dubas needs to be on the phone and get aggressive to dump him somewhere. If the Leafs can't find a taker, he'll be on waivers I think. An extra 1.25M to the cap.

 

[Magic Man]

Dubie had an up and down summer in regards to signings. Nick Ritchie and Petr Mrazek, the two prized FA signings have been major flops, Ritchie has already been dealt and Mrazek is likely to move before the deadline as well. Meanwhile, he hit on each of the 3 forwards he signed for 1.5M or less. Bunting, Kampf and Kase have fit like a glove and outplayed their contracts.

Maybe, he should try a cheaper route and go for a Middleton. Save the bigger pieces for Varlamov or Fleury and come out on the other side of the deadline with some assets left.

 

[dubplatepressure]

It's quite clear they want him for those reasons. I'm all for it. I just don't know how you can remove Sandin or Liljegren out of the lineup with how they are playing. So it makes for a bit of a weird acquisition, especially if the price is a 2nd + prospect/pick. You can find a Middleton level player (blocks, hits, etc) for the press box without having to pay the premium price.

I'd easily go for Middleton if Muzzin was out for the regular season.

Middleton - Lub would be a fun 3rd pairing to watch.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Leafs defence missing zaitsev before mental breakdown. babcock favorite D from 2016-2018. We still have not replace him, only decrease until all we have is muzzin and now muzzin damaged and need replace too.

But why sharks trading middleton if he good one? Have to think about this too. Leaf need to make sure about this before another flopped trade.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Dubie had an up and down summer in regards to signings. Nick Ritchie and Petr Mrazek, the two prized FA signings have been major flops, Ritchie has already been dealt and Mrazek is likely to move before the deadline as well. Meanwhile, he hit on each of the 3 forwards he signed for 1.5M or less. Bunting, Kampf and Kase have fit like a glove and outplayed their contracts.

Maybe, he should try a cheaper route and go for a Middleton. Save the bigger pieces for Varlamov or Fleury and come out on the other side of the deadline with some assets left.

Ritchie is doing a lot better now that he has a reasonable shooting percentage.

I get the sense that they felt he was a long shot who maybe could do well under his old coach (Keefe), but that he could also easily move that contract if it didn't work out. After all, he was a former top pick with size, physicality, and some skill who was only in his mid-20's, and a 2.5 x 2 contract is hardly unreasonable for what he normally brought. His shooting percentage is now back to what his career average was and now he is effectively pacing for 30+ points in a full season despite playing in a bottom 6 most of the season. He is doing what we expected in Arizona; just didn't work out here.

Mrazek is the more confusing one. Should have been the safest bet and he has given a major outlier performance. Like Ritchie, if he does leave (or even if he stays), he is almost certainly going to bounce back to the league-average tandem starter that he has been for much of his career, and I think that too is why he won't really cost anything (or at least nothing we should care about, like a mediocre prospect) to move him. But it is not really like he was making more than he should have made, it is not like our expectations were unreasonable (do what you have done for the last decade behind a top team in the NHL), and he even looked fairly good up until that Montreal game even though he had a very rocky start to his season with injuries and Covid (which could be the reason he is struggling right now). In 2022, up until that MTL game, he was meeting expectations with his save percentage, etc. That MTL game seemed to break his confidence a little bit, and everyone can see his save percentage since then (it is like .837 or something over 5 games).

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Leafs defence missing zaitsev before mental breakdown. babcock favorite D from 2016-2018. We still have not replace him, only decrease until all we have is muzzin and now muzzin damaged and need replace too.

But why sharks trading middleton if he good one? Have to think about this too. Leaf need to make sure about this before another flopped trade.

He is not. They are fishing for an overpayment on a guy who is playing decent minutes for the first time in his career. It is like Marincin that one time he played 20 games with Marincin, except Marincin actually played very well.

Note that I said he hasn't been doing necessarily all that well in those minutes, because in reality, he is a 6/7 who is maybe worth a 4th round pick.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Ritchie is doing a lot better now that he has a reasonable shooting percentage.

I get the sense that they felt he was a long shot who maybe could do well under his old coach (Keefe), but that he could also easily move that contract if it didn't work out. After all, he was a former top pick with size, physicality, and some skill who was only in his mid-20's, and a 2.5 x 2 contract is hardly unreasonable for what he normally brought. His shooting percentage is now back to what his career average was and now he is effectively pacing for 30+ points in a full season despite playing in a bottom 6 most of the season. He is doing what we expected in Arizona; just didn't work out here.

Mrazek is the more confusing one. Should have been the safest bet and he has given a major outlier performance. Like Ritchie, if he does leave (or even if he stays), he is almost certainly going to bounce back to the league-average tandem starter that he has been for much of his career, and I think that too is why he won't really cost anything (or at least nothing we should care about, like a mediocre prospect) to move him. But it is not really like he was making more than he should have made, it is not like our expectations were unreasonable (do what you have done for the last decade behind a top team in the NHL), and he even looked fairly good up until that Montreal game even though he had a very rocky start to his season with injuries and Covid (which could be the reason he is struggling right now). In 2022, up until that MTL game, he was meeting expectations with his save percentage, etc. That MTL game seemed to break his confidence a little bit, and everyone can see his save percentage since then (it is like .837 or something over 5 games).

I think Ritchie was definitely a long shot who just doesn't fill it stylistically with how the leafs wanted to play. Too slow to keep up and too slow to be the forechecker he needed to be to make it in the top 6. Seems to be a much better fit for Arizona. Generally it seems like more physical, grindy cycle players often go on to have better seasons when playing for someone other than the leafs. I get why they gambled on him though, probably knew there were other interested parties when he was a UFA so would be easy to dump if it didn't work out.

Ya i have no idea what happened to Mrazek, maybe he has historically played in a much different system to the leafs defensively so hasn't adjusted yet? No idea

 

[DraftSchmaft]

People who play fantasy in blocks + hits leagues will for sure be pro Middleton These guys are a premium in there.

On a serious note, I'm indifferent. For balance purposes we do need a Middleton. Let's be real, none of us know enough about him to say if he's good or not. Leafs have obviously been scouting the guy, so I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know more than them. I'll take the leap of faith and say yes to Middleton. The indifference comes in because it has a huge bust risk, so I'm also okay if they say no thanks.

 

[Apex Predator]

What do you think the asking price for Middleton would be?

 

[123offtheglass]

Is it possible Middleton is the next Barclay Goodrow of defense, an under the radar D ready to breakout? I don't think so but it's possible GM's like Dubas see something in him.

I'd consider a Middleton for Dermott swap, sort of similar to the Jost for Sturm swap. Likely Toronto adds a small sweetener but definitely not a 2nd round pick. It would free up a little cap too, but could either one of Sandin or Middleton play the right side?

I'd be for it if the price is less than what's been suggested.

 

[SprDaVE]

What do you think the asking price for Middleton would be?

A few different insiders say the Sharks have been asking a 2nd plus another pick or a prospect.

So it'll be around that ballpark. The big positive with Middleton is that he's a pending RFA so you keep his rights, he's not a pure rental.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Is it possible Middleton is the next Barclay Goodrow of defense, an under the radar D ready to breakout? I don't think so but it's possible GM's like Dubas see something in him.

I'd consider a Middleton for Dermott swap, sort of similar to the Jost for Sturm swap. Likely Toronto adds a small sweetener but definitely not a 2nd round pick. It would free up a little cap too, but could either one of Sandin or Middleton play the right side?

I'd be for it if the price is less than what's been suggested.

Dermott + 5-7th or a prospect down the list is fine for roster balance etc. but I wouldn’t have much interest at the reported 2nd + asking price.

 

[Chief Berube]

DO SOMETHIN. I am getting Impatient LOL

 

[123offtheglass]

Dermott + 5-7th or a prospect down the list is fine for roster balance etc. but I wouldn’t have much interest at the reported 2nd + asking price.

I could see the Sharks really wanting a 2nd in this years draft as they do not currently have one; they do however have 3 7th round picks & the Leafs only have a 1st, 2nd & 7th in this years draft.

I could see:

Middleton + 4th (SJS 2022) + 7th (MIN 2022)

for:

Dermott + 2nd (TOR 2022)

It is a bit rich but I could live with that.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I could see the Sharks really wanting a 2nd in this years draft as they do not currently have one; they do however have 3 7th round picks & the Leafs only have a 1st, 2nd & 7th in this years draft.

I could see:

Middleton + 4th (SJS 2022) + 7th (MIN 2022)

for:

Dermott + 2nd (TOR 2022)

It is a bit rich but I could live with that.

I'd swap their 4th for their 3rd. Not enough of a difference between Dermott and Middleton IMO. But now we're nitpicking.

 

[kb]

Dermott is better than Middleton at the game of hockey.

 

[Mickey Marner]

We could use a guy like Middleton, the issue is that he just further crowds the bottom half of our defense. We already have Sandin, Liljegren, Holl, Lyub & Dermott fighting for 3-4 spots. We don't need a sixth guy fighting for those same minutes, we need someone clearly better than those five.

 

[Griffin76]

Blue Jays are stealing the trade spotlight right now. Let's go Dubas.

Common trades. How come nobody is using this this year???

 

[Apex Predator]

Dermott is better than Middleton at the game of hockey.

I’m not going to act like I know Middleton as well as I know Dermot but everything I’ve read is he brings a different element than Dermott.