GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART X

[Ziggdiezan]

Which begs the question, how the hell can a team with 16,34,44,91 and 88 get swept ?? Surly heads will roll if they are swept.

Oh for sure heads would roll. I still have a shred of belief that Campbell returns and puts up decent numbers so we will see.

When you spend over half your cap on 4 players the other positions should be expected to be lacking. If the leafs don't get scoring from their bottom 6 and get average performances from their goalies in the playoffs, that would be expected from my point of view. The entire fate of the team rests on the big 4 pretty much as that is where all the money is tied up. Either they score 3+ goals a game in the playoffs or the leafs are likely going to get beaten

 

[Warden of the North]

Not sure whats the deal here but apparently Leafs were interested but....

Probably for the better. I think Manson is quite past his prime

 

[SeaOfBlue]

While I understand that premise you can't really just neglect the goalies. Florida spend like 2 to 3 times the amount on goalies than Toronto does. They would be able to add some significant additional pieces if they were spending near league minimum on goalies like the leafs are. You get what you pay for as the old saying goes. Leafs went cheap on goalies and so got cheap goaltending

The Leafs are spending 5.45 mill on goaltending this year. Colorado is spending 5.5 mill.

Colorado has .928 goaltending at 5-on-5 this year. 2nd in the league. The Leafs have .908. 4th worst in the league.

Vancouver is at the top of the league and they are spending 6.5 mill.

Calgary is spending 6.75 mill on goaltending. Top 5 in the league. St. Louis is spending the same: 6th. The Rangers are spending 8 mill but their 2.5 mill backup has been subpar for years and probably could be upgraded with someone making half the amount. Top 5.

Bruins are spending 5.9 mill. Middle of the pack. Only slightly worse than Florida, who is spending almost double that. Tampa is near the top in the league in spending on goaltending and they are only at the high end of the middle tier in terms of goaltending.

So the difference between "cheap goaltending" which is bottom 5 in the league despite playing behind a defense which is playing much better than that is maybe a mill and a half if you really want to splurge? Only 4 goalies in the league make over 6.4 mill (and 2 of them - Fleury and Bobrovsky - are not worth more than 6.4 mill based on their play). Most teams don't spend more than 7 mill on goalies otherwise, and in fact, many of the teams who do are near the bottom with us (Chicago, Columbus, Seattle).

Spending big on goaltending is stupid unless you are paying for a consistent Vezina winner like Vasilevsky.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Which begs the question, how the hell can a team with 16,34,44,91 and 88 get swept ?? Surly heads will roll if they are swept.

Well, let's hope for better than a sweep. But six straight series losses for 16, 34, 44 & 88 would be clear-cut proof that they're not going to get it done. Mind you, I though five was finally enough for management to do something. So seven might be their magic number, or eight... who knows.

 

[Fogelhund]

While I understand that premise you can't really just neglect the goalies. Florida spend like 2 to 3 times the amount on goalies than Toronto does. They would be able to add some significant additional pieces if they were spending near league minimum on goalies like the leafs are. You get what you pay for as the old saying goes. Leafs went cheap on goalies and so got cheap goaltending

Clearly you are on to something. If only we were like that highest spending team in goaltending, the Montreal Canadiens, the team last in the league in goals against then we'd find success right? Or Kraken at #4, or Islanders at #5, Hawks at #7, Ducks at #8... . Or maybe you are ranting about something with zero correlation??

Then again, you look at league leaders, such as Carolina, who barely spends more on goalies than us, or Colorado, who doesn't spend more than us...

 

[WTFMAN99]

Clearly you are on to something. If only we were like that highest spending team in goaltending, the Montreal Canadiens, the team last in the league in goals against then we'd find success right? Or Kraken at #4, or Islanders at #5, Hawks at #7, Ducks at #8... . Or maybe you are ranting about something with zero correlation??

Then again, you look at league leaders, such as Carolina, who barely spends more on goalies than us, or Colorado, who doesn't spend more than us...

It's talent + system + coaching

There is a lot that goes into it besides simply throwing money at it

 

[Nylanderthal]

It's talent + system + coaching

There is a lot that goes into it besides simply throwing money at it

Well the system the coach brought in immediately changed this team from a bottom 5 in every defensive metric to top 10-12. Right now they’re pressing because they know they’re not getting any saves

 

[Mickey Marner]

Teams that are able to identify good goaltenders, can cheap out on goaltending. Teams that aren't able, can not.

 

[weems]

Both things can be true in that our goalies have been very bad and need to be much better but also that our defence turns the puck over quite a bit in their own zone and have a propensity of making some glaring mistakes that directly lead to goals.

Just have to look at last game. We end up losing on a pathetic goal from Hinostroza that should never go in. Mrazek gets all the blame and mostly justified but theres minimal talk of just how terrible of a giveaway Sandin made seconds before that turned the puck directly over to Hinostroza.

He went for a no look behind the back pass to where he thought Rielly would be. He could have chipped the puck up the boards and make a safe play but decided to throw it behind the net. Now you'd have to talk to the coaching staff to understand if that was a design play and Rielly didnt do his job of collapsing behind the net for an outlet pass or that was just Sandin deciding on his own to make that play and left Rielly totally confused.

Maybe if that defensive zone giveaway never happens, we win the game and Mrazek can finally start building back some confidence.

We are a team that has offensive control of the puck quite a bit and that will always be favourable to our defensive counting stats numbers. The problem is even at best you'd have the puck 60/40 and once the other team has control of the puck you need to be able to functionally defend for stretchs and do certain things defensively to consistantly stop attacks (clear front of net, break the cycle, not turn pucks over in own zone, block shots, forwards take hits to clear puck from zone).

We've played good defence for stretchs so the upside is there especially if Muzzin returns healthy but we've also looked very bad other times even when some of the counting stats say otherwise. Not every single scoring chance or high danger chance for/against is created equally and that's why you sometimes need to be careful when looking at single game advancted stats from these public sites.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Friedman mentions the Leafs are interested in Motte… been a name I’ve liked for awhile now. Would be a great pickup.

 

[SprDaVE]

Friedman mentions the Leafs are interested in Motte… been a name I’ve liked for awhile now. Would be a great pickup.

Recent rumour is that they want a "top 40" pick for him.

lol

 

[BertCorbeau]

Recent rumour is that they want a "top 40" pick for him.

lol

But not at that price

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Friedman mentions the Leafs are interested in Motte… been a name I’ve liked for awhile now. Would be a great pickup.

Recent rumour is that they want a "top 40" pick for him.

lol

He has never had good possession numbers, good offensive numbers, or really good numbers in anything except hitting.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Friedman mentions the Leafs are interested in Motte… been a name I’ve liked for awhile now. Would be a great pickup.

Would definitely be an upgrade on the 4th line wing spot. Still don’t think any of it matters without a goalie. I wonder what it means benching mrazek tonight

 

[PromisedLand]

It's talent + system + coaching

There is a lot that goes into it besides simply throwing money at it

Throwing money at it... reminds me of a great line from either a tv show or a movie (not sure which one) where main character basically says...

"Life isn't a strip club; you can't just throw money at it"

 

[Nylanderthal]

He has never had good possession numbers, good offensive numbers, or really good numbers in anything except hitting.

Easy to find spots to lay the body when your team never has the puck when you’re on the ice

 

[Buds17]

Clearly you are on to something. If only we were like that highest spending team in goaltending, the Montreal Canadiens, the team last in the league in goals against then we'd find success right? Or Kraken at #4, or Islanders at #5, Hawks at #7, Ducks at #8... . Or maybe you are ranting about something with zero correlation??

Then again, you look at league leaders, such as Carolina, who barely spends more on goalies than us, or Colorado, who doesn't spend more than us...

I'll assume that most NHL teams don't have a goalie as their highest paid player and thus shouldn't expect to win via that method to any substantial degree. Of course, spending wisely will always be what's of the utmost importance. For our own situation, I can't help but think that I'd feel differently if Campbell was signed for 3.8M per x 2(+) and Mrazek was on an expiring deal worth 1.65M. Colorado is certainly similar to us though in both spending and having its starter slated for free agency.

 

[Scion]

When we were playing well, with good goaltending, the team looked as though it was close to being a contender. Probably adding a couple of heavier bodies to the lineup... we did that with Lyubushkin, and then lost Muzzin. Ideally, we'd add one more heavier body, and with a health Muzzin, and goaltending, this "should" be a contender.

The game changes post ASB when teams start playing more defensively structured and begin tuning up for the playoffs. This is historically when the Leafs begin to do the opposite.

 

[Scion]

All the items you mention, have only become major issues since the goaltending went away. Since the team confidence went away.

As previously mentioned, yes we aren’t perfect, nobody is, and getting heavier has always been a necessity.

I’ve said this time and again, but it’s funny that as soon as there is a bad streak, a whole bunch of posters come out of the wood work. When things go well, they disappear. Interesting!!!

They have been issues for years.

 

[Scion]

They’re actually middle of the pack as far as deflected and tipped goals as far as the other playoff teams go. I see them, I watch every game and a bunch of other teams too being out west. They’re not a physical and imposing team but they don’t need to be. They need to be the best version of themselves when it matters most, and that starts and ends witn getting stops from the goaltending

Not since January they aren't...

 

[fahad203]

They have been issues for years.

Some years more than others. This year though, it's a glaring hole
Other years you can count on Andersen to recover and have decent playoff runs. Not good, but decent

I am not sure if I can even count on that this year. Our goaltending other years were bad, this year is a tire fire

 

[Nylanderthal]

Not since January they aren't...

And I wonder what that coincides with…. The goaltending falling off a cliff perhaps?

 

[fahad203]

Friedman mentions the Leafs are interested in Motte… been a name I’ve liked for awhile now. Would be a great pickup.

Would be a great pick up, not the pick up Leafs need
A 4th liner isn't going to change anything for us. Motte is ok, but nothing special here

You need a difference maker of some kind, maybe a legit scorer, maybe a legit hitter
There's nobody brings any energy, elevates their game with this current squad

I hate to say it, Leafs need someone like Josh Anderson without that price tag. As garbage his contract is, and he can go games without scoring. goal, he's a gamer

We need a gamer

 

[thusk]

The defense is not good. It's not as bad as the goaltending has made it look, but make no mistake this is not a Stanley Cup defense unless Muzzin is able to regain his form, and even then I think we need an upgrade on Holl.

The biggest question who make who look worst than what it is. Goalie making d look worst or d making g look worst.

I gave 3rd goal as exemple. It was a f***ing weak goal but how many shot for the slot he saved all game long. It is possible, he was just thinking about all those scoring chance toronto gave all game long and expect a one timer and get caught short side.

Its the same in the other side, watching a goalie that kind of goal hurt team confidence.

So how to know what is the biggest problem if both affect each other negatively?

P
For me, it started with defensive struggle and goalie struggle follow so thats why i think d should be the pruority over goaltending.

 

[ShaneFalco]

And I wonder what that coincides with…. The goaltending falling off a cliff perhaps?

Maybe, just maybe there are other issues too?