GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART X

[ToneDog]

Who cares what he says? Masai said demar would never be moved and less than 24 hours later kawhi was a raptor.
I don’t get this obsession with people to take what these guys say to heart and so literal. He’s protecting his assets and not giving away his position. Pretty simple tbh

He may have said it to Demar but not sure he said it publicly. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Seems like Dubas is right betting on his core. But it’s more like a Super 2 and a Medium 2 instead of a Big 4. Nylander is young enough and cheap enough that you can wait for him to firm up a Big 3. The jury is still out. But that Tavares bet doesn’t seem like it will pay off in Years 4-7 when it didn’t in Years 1-3. It’s just handcuffing the entire process.

They definitely find themselves in a spot if Tavares doesn’t pick it back up. He’s never been much of a burner so maybe having guys who play his speed might help reignite him some. He hasn’t looked good lately but the production isn’t far off pace you can still have hope he’s better than his recent showing.
He’s never been fast so when it’s not clicking it can be real ugly for him

 

[Nylanderthal]

He may have said it to Demar but not sure he said it publicly. Let's leave it at that.

What does it matter? Are you personally offended if the manger doesn’t tell you everything they’re planning on?

 

[thusk]

This isn’t babcock leaf’s, they’re actually a reasonably structured and capable team defensively, the goaltending has been brutal. Period end of statement. Defenders aren’t the reason Petr and jack have been dogshit all of 2022.

Seriously i saw a structure first 30 game, last 29 i didnt see anything really positive defensive side...

 

[Scion]

This isn’t babcock leaf’s, they’re actually a reasonably structured and capable team defensively, the goaltending has been brutal. Period end of statement. Defenders aren’t the reason Petr and jack have been dogshit all of 2022.

The defense is not good. It's not as bad as the goaltending has made it look, but make no mistake this is not a Stanley Cup defense unless Muzzin is able to regain his form, and even then I think we need an upgrade on Holl.

 

[Magic Man]

And we are doing this to sit out Holl/Lyubushkin?

Why? Severson is really not that much better, if we even say he is better at all?

From what the raw stats tell me. Severson has led the New Jersey Devils in ice time for the last 4 seasons. He has also been one of the most used players on their PK, more so than he has been used on the PP. His low point totals in some seasons can partially be blamed on low PP time. He is pacing for 46 points right now, with 33 in the bank. He has average hit numbers, he's not a bruiser that way, but adequate. But, he has a history of a fight or two per season dating back to junior. On paper, it looks like he's minute muncher, who is better defensively than offensively, but good there as well, especially when given PP priority, with some grit. Someone who is a definite top-4 guy, who comes with an extra retained year bringing him in at bottom pairing pricing for a season.

 

[nuck]

You keep saying this, but there’s no indication that this is the case, at all. This season is a referendum on the core, not management

Kyle has tied himself inextricably to the core and the Big Four salary bias. Those players themselves are less responsible for the lack of post season success than their salaries which put down force on the rest of the lineup. All that comes back to the GM because it isn't those four forwards, its $40M on four forwards. I don't see how another bad playoff doesn't cost him his job as that would require MLSE to accept "sorry about the last five playoffs, I am going to move the big piece(s) I said I would never do and build somebody else's dream lineup". If they need a new direction, I can't see any reason why they would choose KD to take them there. His salaries, his lineup, his coach, his goaltending solution.

It seems counterintuitive that ownership wouldn't start at the top because that seems to be the norm in pro sports. Just because it hasn't been leaked to a media insider doesn't mean this isn't the 11th hour. There is still time to fix things but they have a much tougher path ahead of them than last year.

 

[Scion]

Seriously i saw a structure first 30 game, last 29 i didnt see anything really positive defensive side...

Some of these guys can't see past the stats, and even the macro stats have been dog shit since the new year. Blaming the struggles solely on goaltending is missing the forest for the trees.

 

[Shooter2x]

Kyle has tied himself inextricably to the core and the Big Four salary bias. Those players themselves are less responsible for the lack of post season success than their salaries which put down force on the rest of the lineup. All that comes back to the GM because it isn't those four forwards, its $40M on four forwards. I don't see how another bad playoff doesn't cost him his job as that would require MLSE to accept "sorry about the last five playoffs, I am going to move the big piece(s) I said I would never do and build somebody else's dream lineup". If they need a new direction, I can't see any reason why they would choose KD to take them there. His salaries, his lineup, his coach, his goaltending solution.

It seems counterintuitive that ownership wouldn't start at the top because that seems to be the norm in pro sports. Just because it hasn't been leaked to a media insider doesn't mean this isn't the 11th hour. There is still time to fix things but they have a much tougher path ahead of them than last year.

Matthews and Marner are worth their salaries and more. So is Nylander

Jt isn't living up to his.

The rest of the roster isn't a money issue. It's an incompetent balance issue. Cap problem is letting him off the hook. Focus should 100% be on identifiying the wrong guys to round out the roster with.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Reasonably structured until hemmed in the zone. Then what? We're going up against equals in the playoffs we're not going to have the luxury of our possession game keeping the puck away from the net/zone.

"Period end of statement" on a team that coughs it up the most in their back end out of all playoff teams and is the softest playoff team when it comes to stopping cycles and clearing the crease? Our own GM doesn't even agree with you there. I mean if you have the energy to sell that thought go ahead, but I don't think people are buying that anymore at this point.

Every team looks bad when hemmed in their zone. Do you see how awful other teams look when we’re holding the puck and making moves? Every team has strength and weaknesses, the leafs are obviously built on skill and offensive ability so they’re going to have shortcomings elsewhere. Of course I’d like us to be better at every aspect but none of it matters if they don’t get saves. When they were getting saves they were playing much better in front of the goalie. It’s a cycle.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Some of these guys can't see past the stats, and even the macro stats have been dog shit since the new year. Blaming the struggles solely on goaltending is missing the forest for the trees.

The horrid goaltending is a key factor in the slippage in structure, there’s no confidence that the goalie has their back and there’s pressure to score 5 every game

 

[Nylanderthal]

Seriously i saw a structure first 30 game, last 29 i didnt see anything really positive defensive side...

Right when the goalies started posting 880’s. Maybe if they weren’t concerned about every bouncing puck or bad angle shot going in they’d be less concerned about pressing to pot 5 a game

 

[Fogelhund]

The horrid goaltending is a key factor in the slippage in structure, there’s no confidence that the goalie has their back and there’s pressure to score 5 every game

Exactly. When the team loses confidence in their goalies, they always end up playing poorly in the defensive zone, trying to make up for it. Yes, the team D hasn't looked good, but then I do believe that they would look at least acceptable, if we found a goalie they would have confidence in. That doesn't mean we can't upgrade the D, as that's always possible, no matter who your D is.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Some of these guys can't see past the stats, and even the macro stats have been dog shit since the new year. Blaming the struggles solely on goaltending is missing the forest for the trees.

Stats? Watch the games! The goals going in every night are mediocre at best and back breaking at worst. Their macro micro stats don’t look great but the fact is way too many bad goals go in on this team, way more than other teams allow. If that was fixed the rest falls into place a lot better.
Muzzin back healthy and boosh fully acclimated to the line up would make a big difference too.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Exactly. When the team loses confidence in their goalies, they always end up playing poorly in the defensive zone, trying to make up for it. Yes, the team D hasn't looked good, but then I do believe that they would look at least acceptable, if we found a goalie they would have confidence in. That doesn't mean we can't upgrade the D, as that's always possible, no matter who your D is.

There’s always room for improvement at all positions. Lord knows this isn’t a perfect team, but none of that matters without getting the routine stops in net.

 

[Scion]

The horrid goaltending is a key factor in the slippage in structure, there’s no confidence that the goalie has their back and there’s pressure to score 5 every game

You must be one of those guys who is surprised every year in the first round.

 

[stickty111]

Exactly. When the team loses confidence in their goalies, they always end up playing poorly in the defensive zone, trying to make up for it. Yes, the team D hasn't looked good, but then I do believe that they would look at least acceptable, if we found a goalie they would have confidence in. That doesn't mean we can't upgrade the D, as that's always possible, no matter who your D is.

It really confuses me when media says Jack was bailing out the Leafs early on. That is untrue. Leafs were playing well defensively and Jack was playing well at the same time too. I see slippage defensively but that seems to the team playing scared than say structural problems.
I agree we can upgrade the D to not force feed Liljegren and Sandin in situations they aren't ready for.

 

[Scion]

Exactly. When the team loses confidence in their goalies, they always end up playing poorly in the defensive zone, trying to make up for it. Yes, the team D hasn't looked good, but then I do believe that they would look at least acceptable, if we found a goalie they would have confidence in. That doesn't mean we can't upgrade the D, as that's always possible, no matter who your D is.

That is a fair take, but looking acceptable and being capable of winning a cup are two very different things. This team is built to contend and not be acceptable.

 

[Nylanderthal]

You must be one of those guys who is surprised every year in the first round.

Not with the goaltending anderseive gave them most of the time, no not really.

 

[Scion]

It really confuses me when media says Jack was bailing out the Leafs early on. That is untrue. Leafs were playing well defensively and Jack was playing well at the same time too. I see slippage defensively but that seems to the team playing scared than say structural problems.
I agree we can upgrade the D to not force feed Liljegren and Sandin in situations they aren't ready for.

Jack Campbell had a .940% with the Leafs posting middling defensive xGA totals. He definitely covered alot of the Leafs shortfalls in November.

 

[Shooter2x]

Every team looks bad when hemmed in their zone. Do you see how awful other teams look when we’re holding the puck and making moves? Every team has strength and weaknesses, the leafs are obviously built on skill and offensive ability so they’re going to have shortcomings elsewhere. Of course I’d like us to be better at every aspect but none of it matters if they don’t get saves. When they were getting saves they were playing much better in front of the goalie. It’s a cycle.

We don't hit. We don't block. We don't clear the net. We turn it over like crazy in our own zone. Leafs aren't going to be skating circles keeping the puck away from their zone like they do against our recent weak opponents (who were still able to expose these weaknesses even though it was mainly bad goaltending and we limited their shots well because they can't keep up with our possession game).

"Every team looks bad when hemmed in" is a bit of a cop out statement no? I'll use that then for sake of argument and agree, and change it to Leafs are relatively the (*one of) worst out of all the playoff teams that look bad when hemmed in. What happens when the CF is more 50/50 against Tampa or Carolina? We're going to get smoked if this is the defence we get. Only needing average goaltending theory doesn't hold if we accept current defence.

 

[stickty111]

Not with the goaltending anderseive gave them most of the time, no not really

Leafs could give up no shots, no chances and we would still hear Leafs have to get better defensively. Leafs are never winning this argument despite all facts.

 

[Fogelhund]

That is a fair take, but looking acceptable and being capable of winning a cup are two very different things. This team is built to contend and not be acceptable.

When we were playing well, with good goaltending, the team looked as though it was close to being a contender. Probably adding a couple of heavier bodies to the lineup... we did that with Lyubushkin, and then lost Muzzin. Ideally, we'd add one more heavier body, and with a health Muzzin, and goaltending, this "should" be a contender.

 

[Nylanderthal]

That is a fair take, but looking acceptable and being capable of winning a cup are two very different things. This team is built to contend and not be acceptable.

Pittsburgh was acceptable on the back end and won b2b cups. More than one way to skin a cat.
Rielly brodie
Muzzin holl
Sandin boosh
Is good enough when that group is playing to expectations to win series with adequate goaltending and the offence playing to expectations, but that’s always going to be the case with every team. Only one team wins in the end and has it all come together for them.

 

[Scion]

Stats? Watch the games! The goals going in every night are mediocre at best and back breaking at worst. Their macro micro stats don’t look great but the fact is way too many bad goals go in on this team, way more than other teams allow. If that was fixed the rest falls into place a lot better.
Muzzin back healthy and boosh fully acclimated to the line up would make a big difference too.

Dude, look past the bad goaltending. How about the weak play in front of the net, the turnovers at the blueline, the way the defense is getting crushed off the rush and giving up tips in high danger areas. These are issues that extend way beyond our goaltending.