GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VIII

[Holls Blackmail]

K... and kadri is decent now ... no? Decent career?



Yup he'll be top 10 in no time....

f*** sakes


Let's see how he does in a 5 to 10 game opportunity Debbie f***ing downer.

For every Kadri (who wasn't a prospect when he was moved) there's 100 other players that flaked. Get real.

 

[Holls Blackmail]

No but even a top 6 forward could hurt us. Lets not evaluate a kid so early. He's only what 20?

Yes. He's young. But he's done nothing to warrant any promise or indication that he'll grow into a top 6 player. YET.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Where does it say Crouse is untouchable?

My bad just saw this. Craig Morgan is the source. I can't get you the actual article I think it's behind a pay wall. I follow an account on instagram that compiles the latest news and they cite who said it.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Yes. He's young. But he's done nothing to warrant any promise or indication that he'll grow into a top 6 player. YET.

Almost PPG @ 20 YO in first 20-30 AHL games is not nothing

 

[The Podium]

Yes. He's young. But he's done nothing to warrant any promise or indication that he'll grow into a top 6 player. YET.

Nearly PPG as a 20 year old in the AHL after scoring at a crazy rate in the O is nothing these days?

 

[Magic Man]

Miller would be great and all on paper, but the acquisition cost and cap space we would need for him next year make it a non-starter to me. I have zero interest in moving Liljegren, and all the reports are saying Vancouver is high on him.

The hope would be because Vancouver is in builder mode and the contract is short term, that they would retain on Miller to 50%, which would be around 2.6M. That would likely mean a higher acquisition cost. But, the Leafs could pencil him in for the whole season next year at a reduced rate and get two runs with a 1st line player at a 3rd line cap hit. That has to be highly valued by the Leafs.

Liljegren would be a tough loss. We have been watching him develop for years and he could be a big part of the next few years if he stays given his trajectory, he could even become a top pairing defenseman. At the same time, he could end up like Dermott did in another scenario. He came up and was pretty good right away. With the Leafs always wanting to win now over developing their youth, Liljegren could be pushed down the lineup and be used as a depth piece that loses value like Dermott has. Both are realistic scenarios for me.

With Miller you know you're getting at least 2 runs with a legit 1st liner. He will give you PPG production, be your most physical forward and star on both the PP and PK, both are good already, but you can always be better. After 2 years the team can reassess and try to re-sign him if he worked out for them. Seems like an Andreychuk or Nolan type of big move in the cores prime.

I would do everything I could within reason to keep Liljegren and veer them towards a Niemela++ package instead.

 

[Holls Blackmail]

Almost PPG @ 20 YO in first 20-30 AHL games is not nothing

Yes, it is. You just mentioned it was for 1/4 of the season. What about the other 3/4s?

 

[kb]

JT Miller age 20/21 season:

AHL: 23 points in 42 games.
NHL: 4 points in 26 games.

Nick Robertson age 20 season:

AHL: 8 points in 9 games.
NHL: tbd

 

[Zybalto]

David Kampf led Blackhawks forwards last season in shorthanded ice time per game. His team was ranked 4th from the bottom. Kampf now leads Leafs forwards in short handed ice time, the 4th best team.

Miller actually would really help the penalty kill. Kerfoot can't take draws, they often put Spezza out there to take them. Miller is good at faceoffs and could replace a PK'er on unit #2 given his skillset.

Again, looking at the price, throwing in he could play on the PK #2 unit on one of the already best PKs in the league isnt very enticing.

The biggest problem I have is that he's not very good 5v5. Just look at his 5v5 production if you put him on the Leafs:

5v5 points/60:

1. Matthews
2. Bunting
3. Marner
4. Kerfoot
5. Tavares
6. Nylander
7. Kase
8. Engvall
9. Miller
10. Simmonds

....and he gets prime offensive minutes on the Canucks, right?

Throw in the fact his defensive numbers are pretty bad and I'm left looking for the upside.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Yes, it is. You just mentioned it was for 1/4 of the season. What about the other 3/4s?

wait and see? It’s irrelevant. Given what we have seen SO FAR he is clearly top6 potential. What you are referencing is not his potential but his actual ability. Is he a top 6 winger right now? No, probably not.

 

[4thline]

Didn't see this posted

Being conservative I'll say "some others" is Tverberg and Steeves.

Puts our top end 3 piece package at 2nd+Hirvonen/Holmberg + Kokkonen/Kral.

Nothing to sneeze at. More value then we sent for Foligno, more than it took for Bennett and Hall last year.
Upgrade to the first and it's more than Shattenkirk got, Iginla, etc.

I'd say that taken at face value it removes us from Miller and Chychrun and without the 1st from Klingberg/Hertl/Forsberg.

Enough for pretty much anyone else on the market though

 

[Mugzy97]

We should not be moving Robertson or Liljegren at this point in time

 

[stickty111]

Yes. He's young. But he's done nothing to warrant any promise or indication that he'll grow into a top 6 player. YET.

Good production in the AHL and a standout year in the OHL. He's well on track.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Good production in the AHL and a standout year in the OHL. He's well on track.

apparently producing at lower levels is not correlated to nhl success.

 

[Magic Man]

Again, looking at the price, throwing in he could play on the PK #2 unit on one of the already best PKs in the league isnt very enticing.

The biggest problem I have is that he's not very good 5v5. Just look at his 5v5 production if you put him on the Leafs:

5v5 points/60:

1. Matthews
2. Bunting
3. Marner
4. Kerfoot
5. Tavares
6. Nylander
7. Kase
8. Engvall
9. Miller
10. Simmonds

....and he gets prime offensive minutes on the Canucks, right?

Throw in the fact his defensive numbers are pretty bad and I'm left looking for the upside.

The second unit if we're being honest could use someone who doesn't give up possession off the faceoff the majority of the time and it would be nice if Spezza never had to be caught out on a PK. Keep Kerfoot out there with him, he's pretty good at it. Outside of that it is still an upgrade in PK personnel.

Miller leads the Canucks in even strength points, he is their play driver. He has a similar amount to the likes of Marner, JT and Nylander.

Him being the only gritty player in the top-9 outside of Bunting is also a thing. He would lead the Leafs forwards in hits.

He basically does everything well. You're not going to get a comparable upgrade. That guy does everything.

 

[stickty111]

apparently producing at lower levels is not correlated to nhl success.

I get his point that he's injured a fair amount, but his performance when healthy indicates top 6 potential.

 

[Smif]

Didn't see this posted

Sounds like a GM that is really worried about his job...

 

[thusk]

Robertson production ohl at 18 was better of his brother at 19.

In the AHL in the small sample we had, at 19 and 20 robertson remain with a better production/ game than his brother at 20, so can we just relax with the kid and give him time to grow up

 

[Smif]

If Muzzin is out until the playoffs I wonder if we can use our financial flexibility to recoup some mid to late round picks like we used to. Build up our draft capital again.

 

[dubplatepressure]

If Muzzin is out until the playoffs I wonder if we can use our financial flexibility to recoup some mid to late round picks like we used to. Build up our draft capital again.

accumulate dead weight instead of quality talent?

 

[jaric1862]

Leafs should just wait out the rental D market and get the best remaining player on the board.

 

[Smif]

accumulate dead weight instead of quality talent?

No no no, using us to retain on a contract, like we did with Lehner to Vegas a couple years ago, and like someone (I think San Jose) did for us with Foligno last year.

 

[Zybalto]

The second unit if we're being honest could use someone who doesn't give up possession off the faceoff the majority of the time and it would be nice if Spezza never had to be caught out on a PK. Keep Kerfoot out there with him, he's pretty good at it. Outside of that it is still an upgrade in PK personnel.

Miller leads the Canucks in even strength points, he is their play driver. He has a similar amount to the likes of Marner, JT and Nylander.

Him being the only gritty player in the top-9 outside of Bunting is also a thing. He would lead the Leafs forwards in hits.

He basically does everything well. You're not going to get a comparable upgrade. That guy does everything.

He also basically gets fed all the prime offensive even-strength minutes including 3 on 3s.

I'm far more interested in how he fares 5v5 as he'd be playing the majority of the game there as he's not getting the same opportunities Matthews and company are.

His 5v5 production this season is comparable to Engvall and his individual D numbers are bad. His numbers say he's not a good 5v5 player. I don't want to buy high on a guy who doesnt look good 5v5. Plain and simple.

Niemela is one of the best prospects outside of North America right now tearing up the Liiga as a 20-year-old after winning the best dman at the WJC as an 18-year-old. Do you really want to give him up?

 

[aingefan]

Keep scrounging around for new Hyman or Bunting. And give some internal options a shot.
While Zach wasn’t the catalyst on his lines, he provided plenty of speed n tenacity.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I think a 2022 2nd + decent prospect for soucy would help us a lot without giving up our future.