GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VI
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FYI, even if Manson was double retained they wouldn't be able to afford him. They would HAVE to ship money out.
I still dont get the obsession with Manson.
Other than being big and mean, whats the appeal?
He has had a few big injuries over the last little while, and this year he has looked markedly worse than the last few defensively. Is the hope that being paired with Muzzin will make him look like his old self?
It is starting to feel like he is the name we have all just been going for a bit too long, so we arent grading him on what he is but what he was / what we want him to be.
Other than being big and mean, whats the appeal?
He has had a few big injuries over the last little while, and this year he has looked markedly worse than the last few defensively. Is the hope that being paired with Muzzin will make him look like his old self?
It is starting to feel like he is the name we have all just been going for a bit too long, so we arent grading him on what he is but what he was / what we want him to be.
dubplatepressure
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WTFMAN99
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No, desperate acts rarely result in success.
Trading premium assets on a rental when doing that previously hasn't yielded success isn't a path to follow. I watched Chicago continually move out picks and prospects in the name of competing and it was justifiable due to the success the team experienced even prior to that 1st cup in 3 years with a western conference final appearance.
The Leafs have traded picks and numerous top 60(62) picks the last few years with zero playoff success to show for it and this isn't the year to do it either IMO, not with Tampa and Florida most likely awaiting us. Those young pieces might be the edge we need later.
The issue with acquiring Manson is he's valued as a premium asset - Hard nosed top 4 all around Dman. People talk about him like he's an an equivalent to Jake Muzzin 3 years ago, and while he's having a better year this season after a couple not very good seasons, he's more like a tougher Justin Holl.
I don't have a problem trading premium assets but it better be for an actual premium player, not another Nick Foligno.
If you want a 'consolation prize' you can find someone as good, or nearly as good for a significantly lower cost than Manson.
WTFMAN99
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Aim for Scott Mayfield...failing that, someone like Justin Braun could be a solid add without breaking the bank.
ShaneFalco
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ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Considering no team wanted Ritchie for free, it would have to be a significant add because the way I see it Dermott + Ritchie gets you less than Dermott.
ShaneFalco
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Considering no team wanted Ritchie for free, it would have to be a significant add because the way I see it Dermott + Ritchie gets you less than Dermott.
That is the unfortunate reality
Mayfield is in the same boat as Manson. The aquisition cost heavily outweighs his actual value on the ice.
WTFMAN99
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I don't know what the acquisition cost is supposed to be for Mayfield but getting 2 years at 1.45M for someone that should be able to provide a missing ingredient and isn't a pure rental makes more sense than any pure rental at this point, within reason.
If the price is stupid, a 3rd for Braun and call it a day.
Although Ritchie didn’t get picked up it doesn’t mean that other teams didn’t want him. Maybe the other team didn’t have the 50 contract space for him. Instead of picking him up off waivers they would rather trade one of their guys for him.Considering no team wanted Ritchie for free, it would have to be a significant add because the way I see it Dermott + Ritchie gets you less than Dermott.
WTFMAN99
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbIpde_xKCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzS5yEBZAv8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hZPxw3OHaI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNMA0Pif-ng
Last year 3 years 234 hits for Holl in 154 games 1.5 hits game
Last 3 years 219 hits for Mayfield in 160 games 1.37 hits game
Those were some of the fights/hits I was able to find relatively easily...Holl, I was only able to really find Sabourin beating him up. No one is really worried about Holl catching them with their head down or Holl following up in a scrum to make them answer for anything.
So statistically, Holl has more hits/game than Mayfield by small margin but I wouldn't really have any concern with taking a hit from Holl either if I was an opposing player. Keep in mind that Mayfield last year when Leddy was still around was apart of a successful top 4 on the NYI that went deep into the playoffs while the last 2 years, Holl's statistics plummeted without Muzzin.
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ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
A definite possibility. Sure they might throw the Leafs a bone like the Leafs did for Gally last year but if you use him in a deal with Dermott to get an upgrade on D, you probably have to add IMO.
thusk
Registered User
Im not sure the price for manson will be that high with all those d available this season
Klindberg
Ristolainen
Chychrun
lindholm
Giordano
Miller
Chiarot
Leddy
Braun
Dekeyser
Dehaan
A season like this one, maybe a 2nd pick alone could be enough
Lindholm is the definitive upgrade for the leafs blue line. If he would agree to resign with the leafs he should be the number 1 target.
Hits per game are not a good measure of a players physical play or how many hits they laid actually do anything. Every city has a different view of what a hit is, and some are notorious for have inflated hit counters.
You can see a guy like Martin when he was with the Leafs threw a ton of hits, but because his linemates were not grinders he was easy to avoid while you had the puck. A ton of his hits were to guys who just let the puck go, so he wasnt separating player from puck or causing many turnovers.
The same guy before he left the Islanders was playing with two other players who played a similar enough style that everyone was under pressure. More of his hits were to guys with the puck, and made a material affect on the play.
Its even harder with D men. Are you rocking a guy along the boards and essentially removing him from play in the offensive zone (Kronwall), are you laying a guy out when he is cutting across the ice (Dion), are you just imposing your will on people getting anywhere near your net with a hit (Chara), are you angling people towards the boards and 'rubbing' them out (Niedermier) or are you attempting 5 a game hitting 2 or 3 and taking yourself wildly out of position (also Dion lol).
IMO Mayfield is physically really good in front of the net and doesnt take himself out of the play too often looking for a big hit. 'Chasing' hits has been something Muzzin seems to do more this season as well.
Remember when we had the league leader in hits. Robert shvela?
Not all hits are the same. To compare mayfield vs Holl. They aren’t in the same league in terms of physicality.
Not all hits are the same. To compare mayfield vs Holl. They aren’t in the same league in terms of physicality.
WTFMAN99
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Well said. Mayfield makes being in front of the opposition net uncomfortable, battling Holl in front of the net isn't an unappealing prospect.
Well that's true, Mayfield has a deterence factor that Holl doesn't. Also reach and size matters
That being said, I am not willing to part any significant asset for him
If anything I'll call Kraken for Oleksiak ....
Exactly, most places don't know what the NHL actually considers a hit (which is shoulder to body of opposing player) so lots of cities actually have inflated hit totals.
WTFMAN99
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I don't think Oleksiak is available, they just signed him to a big contract to have him avoid going to UFA.
Soucy on the other hand? Sure.
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