GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART IV

[hockeynorth]

Chychrun is pretty good both ways guys... he's what people thought Seth Jones was

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Mentioned this in the earlier thread, but a negative on the "should the Leafs get Chychrun" is he isn't needed for the 1st PP Unit (they're not kicking Rielly off after giving him that huge extension). Which is going to limit to an extent his impact as an offensive centric D man.

The Leafs just need another Brodie. A safe minute munching guy.

Having a clapper at the point on PP1 is basic fundamentals since hockey was invented. I don't see many people jumping on board with you there to contest that. It's the one thing holding us back from being fully dynamic.

Not needed does not equal not willing to kick Rielly off (which isn't fact either, that's your prediction). We literally lost two playoff series in a row to inferior teams where our PP was trash. Sorry to bring up bad memories but I think you're completely wrong that Riellys PP1 job is secure if Leafs traded for Chychrun. Should watch some tape of teams that have a bomb from the point so you can see what we're missing.

Even if he doesn't get PP1 he will still be heavily involved in the offence, be it pp2 or in transition. I'm sure many here would easily take the bet that his floor is 40 points if he becomes a Leaf.


edit - I keep focusing on his clapper...he also has a nice quick wrister.

 

[horner]

Wait what?

Namestnikov - 25yr old 3rd liner
Howden - 19yr old late 1st round pick with mediocre junior numbers
Hajek - 19yr old 2nd round pick with poor junior numbers

None of those assets are comparable to Sandin.

And they got Miller on top of McDonagh too!

I would agree

 

[horner]

Chychrun is pretty good both ways guys... he's what people thought Seth Jones was

Have you watched him play.

His defensive game is it.
Pros and cons

Is he a Brodie type of defenceman , defensively speaking ?

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Chychrun is pretty good both ways guys... he's what people thought Seth Jones was

It's becoming clear that people are making hot takes about a player they know very little about.

 

[thusk]

He is playing for a pathetic team. Probably much better paired with a Muzzin or Brodie. Might be our 4th best dman today but could be better than most in the future. All depends on how the Leafs brass view him and the cost. I don't see it happening though.

Chabot play in an awful team, and look pretty good because he is a real elite talent dman


savard/ chiarot play in an awfull team
Larsson play in an awfull d
Gostibehere play in the same awfull team

All of them look better than chychrun!!! Playing on an awfull team doesn't excuse everything and its not because he get trade and play in an elite team than he will necessarely be better, maybe he will just play less because the mistake he did in arizona in a good team can be unacceptable. In the other end, a guy like sandin on a worst team can easily be a top 4 dman playinf 20-25 minutes/ game, playing on 1st unit in pp and get more points than he did in toronro because he can have more liberty and take some risk he cant in toronto. Its a dangerous game to considerate a player better only because he playing on a bad team

Hugues, chabot, dahlin, seider, bouchard thats kind of dmen who will become elite dman, chychrun is not even close of that category.

Trouba, dumba, brodin, orlov, pionk, gavrikov, fowler, ekman-larsson muzzin, brodie, hanifin, sanheim.. he's more on that kind of category, a very good top 4 dman but clearly not an elite one.

 

[hockeynorth]

Have you watched him play.

His defensive game is it.
Pros and cons

Is he a Brodie type of defenceman , defensively speaking ?

It's becoming clear that people are making hot takes about a player they know very little about.

I've followed Chychrun since his Junior days, his defensive abilities would be on par with Brodie yes. He's very strong at both ends of the ice, and I firmly believe he would be our best dman when we consider each of the three zones. From an advanced stats view, he's posting positive relative stats while playing the most dzone heavy minutes since his rookie year (similar to Muzzin). It's also a down year for him and he's still doing that, so a buy-low time. From a simple stat view, he hits, blocks and puts more pucks on net than any of our dman. From a scouting view, he has great IQ especially in his own zone, skates great, defends well in transition, plays tough hockey, and can throw up points by effectively moving pucks in the ozone or using his shot. He's also similar in age to liljegren/sandin, while being significantly ahead of them, so yes I would give up one of the two for him. If he played in NY or Boston, everyone would hear much more about him.

This is a 23 year old dman who could seriously win a Norris one day, he's by far the Yotes best player, and a unicorn type of player. Comparably, it'd be like acquiring a young Letang or Weber, someone who will be a top 5 dman, though not #1 (Fox or Makar are ahead).

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Just play Liljegren in Holls spot and let him develop into that guy. Flip Dermott and Holl in and out of that 6D spot but we're wasting valuable development opportunity by not playing Liljegren with Muzzin at 5 on 5 as often as possible.

I think Liljegren could definitely still learn a lot dominating the bottom pairing given it is his first season in the NHL but I understand what your saying.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

I've followed Chychrun since his Junior days, his defensive abilities would be on par with Brodie yes. He's very strong at both ends of the ice, and I firmly believe he would be our best dman when we consider each of the three zones. From an advanced stats view, he's posting positive relative stats while playing the most dzone heavy minutes since his rookie year (similar to Muzzin). It's also a down year for him and he's still doing that, so a buy-low time. From a simple stat view, he hits, blocks and puts more pucks on net than any of our dman. From a scouting view, he has great IQ especially in his own zone, skates great, defends well in transition, plays tough hockey, and can throw up points by effectively moving pucks in the ozone or using his shot. He's also similar in age to liljegren/sandin, while being significantly ahead of them, so yes I would give up one of the two for him. If he played in NY or Boston, everyone would hear much more about him.

This is a 23 year old dman who could seriously win a Norris one day, he's by far the Yotes best player, and a unicorn type of player. Comparably, it'd be like acquiring a young Letang or Weber, someone who will be a top 5 dman, though not #1 (Fox or Makar are ahead).

Well said. Agree 100%.

 

[Knies iT]

I've followed Chychrun since his Junior days, his defensive abilities would be on par with Brodie yes. He's very strong at both ends of the ice, and I firmly believe he would be our best dman when we consider each of the three zones. From an advanced stats view, he's posting positive relative stats while playing the most dzone heavy minutes since his rookie year (similar to Muzzin). It's also a down year for him and he's still doing that, so a buy-low time. From a simple stat view, he hits, blocks and puts more pucks on net than any of our dman. From a scouting view, he has great IQ especially in his own zone, skates great, defends well in transition, plays tough hockey, and can throw up points by effectively moving pucks in the ozone or using his shot. He's also similar in age to liljegren/sandin, while being significantly ahead of them, so yes I would give up one of the two for him. If he played in NY or Boston, everyone would hear much more about him.

This is a 23 year old dman who could seriously win a Norris one day, he's by far the Yotes best player, and a unicorn type of player. Comparably, it'd be like acquiring a young Letang or Weber, someone who will be a top 5 dman, though not #1 (Fox or Makar are ahead).

That Sarnia team was a honey hole in hindsight. Zacha, Studnicka, Konecny, Kyrou, Chychrun, etc.

I agree with your assessment. Acquiring Chychrun now would be akin to adding a 2015-16 version of Brodie, but with more goal scoring output.

However it only makes sense if you plan to re-sign Chychrun at the end of his current deal. For the price he will command, you need more than 3 years ROI. The problem is that his contract expiry coincides with MM/AM/WN who will need new deals, but both Brodie/Muzzin will be off the cap by then. Can you afford to extend Chychrun if he explodes here?

Soon the Leafs will need to plan for life beyond Muzzin though.

 

[Griffin76]

That Sarnia team was a honey hole in hindsight. Zacha, Studnicka, Konecny, Kyrou, Chychrun, etc.

I agree with your assessment. Acquiring Chychrun now would be akin to adding a 2015-16 version of Brodie, but with more goal scoring output.

However it only makes sense if you plan to re-sign Chychrun at the end of his current deal. For the price he will command, you need more than 3 years ROI. The problem is that his contract expiry coincides with MM/AM/WN who will need new deals, but both Brodie/Muzzin will be off the cap by then. Can you afford to extend Chychrun if he explodes here?

Soon the Leafs will need to plan for life beyond Muzzin though.

His contract actually coincides with Marner and Tavares of which neither deserves a raise. In fact they both deserve a cut. Tavares, likely a significant cut by that time too, due to age. The problem would be trying to sign Matthews and Nylander the year before but Brodie and Muzzin expire that year which helps.

 

[TMLAM34]

If Chychrun is as good as Brodie defensively and can play the right side, why are we not putting him right next to Rielly?

Rielly - Chychrun
Sandin - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren

Amirov, Robertson, Dermott, Ritchie, 1st for Chychrun?

 

[Griffin76]

If Chychrun is as good as Brodie defensively and can play the right side, why are we not putting him right next to Rielly?

Rielly - Chychrun
Sandin - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren

Amirov, Robertson, Dermott, Ritchie, 1st for Chychrun?

He's not as good as Brodie yet. But he is only 23. He could get there though. And I wouldn't break up the Rielly/Brodie duo. They've been very good. He could move there when Brodie's contract is up or even the year before.

Also I'm pretty sure Sandin would have to go the other way. Drop Amirov and swap Sandin for Dermott.

Ritchie, Holl and possibly Mrazek would need to be moved out in separate deals, but it is doable.

 

[ToneDog]

Chabot play in an awful team, and look pretty good because he is a real elite talent dman


savard/ chiarot play in an awfull team
Larsson play in an awfull d
Gostibehere play in the same awfull team

All of them look better than chychrun!!! Playing on an awfull team doesn't excuse everything and its not because he get trade and play in an elite team than he will necessarely be better, maybe he will just play less because the mistake he did in arizona in a good team can be unacceptable. In the other end, a guy like sandin on a worst team can easily be a top 4 dman playinf 20-25 minutes/ game, playing on 1st unit in pp and get more points than he did in toronro because he can have more liberty and take some risk he cant in toronto. Its a dangerous game to considerate a player better only because he playing on a bad team

Hugues, chabot, dahlin, seider, bouchard thats kind of dmen who will become elite dman, chychrun is not even close of that category.

Trouba, dumba, brodin, orlov, pionk, gavrikov, fowler, ekman-larsson muzzin, brodie, hanifin, sanheim.. he's more on that kind of category, a very good top 4 dman but clearly not an elite one.

Chariot for a 1st has been laughed at on this board (and I think he would be a good pickup but not for a 1st) and Chychrun will get close to 3x that. Those dmen in bold are pretty good. I'd gladly take most of them in my top 4.

You should read some of the posts after yours. They paint a completely different picture than yours.

 

[thusk]

If chychrun is a kind of brodie, its fine but toronto don't have 4.6M to put on an other brodie when they have pretty good cheaper option. Toronto need to resign jack campbell and he's the priority #1 right now

 

[ToneDog]

If chychrun is a kind of brodie, its fine but toronto don't have 4.6M to put on an other brodie when they have pretty good cheaper option. Toronto need to resign jack campbell and he's the priority #1 right now

If they traded Marner (big if), Mrazek, Ritchie and Kerfoot (if necessary) this summer there would be plenty to go around for Chychrun (4.6), Mikheyev (1.5-2), Soup (5), Kase (2), Lily (1.25) and Sandin (1.25) and any players coming back.

 

[tony135420]

If they traded Marner (big if), Mrazek, Ritchie and Kerfoot (if necessary) this summer there would be plenty to go around for Chychrun (4.6), Mikheyev (1.5-2), Soup (5), Kase (2), Lily (1.25) and Sandin (1.25) and any players coming back.

I would assume if Chychrun is here, Muzz is out.

 

[dubplatepressure]

If they traded Marner (big if), Mrazek, Ritchie and Kerfoot (if necessary) this summer there would be plenty to go around for Chychrun (4.6), Mikheyev (1.5-2), Soup (5), Kase (2), Lily (1.25) and Sandin (1.25) and any players coming back.

That's a lot of disruption in one offseason. I'd expect that only gets entertained if we don't get beyond the 1st round again. There are a lot of teams picking top-10 that would seem to be good suitors for Marner should we decided to pursue that. Columbus particularly, and they have the young players to compliment a high draft pick and the financial constrains to appreciate how much of Marner's amount owed has already been paid in cash. Philly also always seems to be willing to anti up to big trades, and Seattle could also throw down.

 

[WTFMAN99]

They need Josh Manson of like 5 years ago basically

Or Scott Mayfield now.

 

[Avilaj07]

I think there's 2 players we have to look to move this off season in order to somewhat restructure our cap. Those players being Muzzin and Mrazek. While it's a bit risky, I would run Woll as our backup and sign a veteran goalie to play for the Marlies in case Woll faulters. As for Muzzin, that's the tricky one, he has a NTC so he controls pretty much everything but do I think he'd be open to a move. Problem is, at 5.6 for 2 more years, teams will be hesitant to give anything of value for him considering he's at the tail end of his career. Odds are we'd have to add a sweetener to get fair value.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think there's 2 players we have to look to move this off season in order to somewhat restructure our cap. Those players being Muzzin and Mrazek. While it's a bit risky, I would run Woll as our backup and sign a veteran goalie to play for the Marlies in case Woll faulters. As for Muzzin, that's the tricky one, he has a NTC so he controls pretty much everything but do I think he'd be open to a move. Problem is, at 5.6 for 2 more years, teams will be hesitant to give anything of value for him considering he's at the tail end of his career. Odds are we'd have to add a sweetener to get fair value.

I wouldn't run Woll, he's not ready despite the wins etc.

Muzzin actually averages around 4M per for the last 2 years, we front loaded the deal and likely doesn't require a sweetener however he controls the destination etc, could probably send him back to the Kings...but not sure we can expect much of a return.

 

[thusk]

If they traded Marner (big if), Mrazek, Ritchie and Kerfoot (if necessary) this summer there would be plenty to go around for Chychrun (4.6), Mikheyev (1.5-2), Soup (5), Kase (2), Lily (1.25) and Sandin (1.25) and any players coming back.

1-You can stay with campbell and woll as back up. If campbell get injured, we are in trouble. So if leafs trade mrazek, they need to find an other back up they will need to pay.

2- Will maybe cost more than 5M with both of last 2 season

Chariot for a 1st has been laughed at on this board (and I think he would be a good pickup but not for a 1st) and Chychrun will get close to 3x that. Those dmen in bold are pretty good. I'd gladly take most of them in my top 4.

You should read some of the posts after yours. They paint a completely different picture than yours.

The post after mine, yeah are closer to what im saying than you. If chychrun is a kind of brodie to become, hes clearly not an elite dman but yes he s a good top 4.

But i will give you trouba exemple you was suppose to be an elite d too. NYR gave pionk and a 1st. A year after pionk was already at the same level or better, they lost a 1st round for absolutly nothing and overpaid trouba at 8M.

If toronto give sandin amirov and a 1st for chychrun and sandin still developping and next season are already at the same level or better than chychrun ( because hes clearly have the potential for it), at the end we just lost amirov and a 1st pick for absolutly nothing. Some time the best move is to don't move

 

[Griffin76]

1-You can stay with campbell and woll as back up. If campbell get injured, we are in trouble. So if leafs trade mrazek, they need to find an other back up they will need to pay.

2- Will maybe cost more than 5M with both of last 2 season





The post after mine, yeah are closer to what im saying than you. If chychrun is a kind of brodie to become, hes clearly not an elite dman but yes he s a good top 4.

But i will give you trouba exemple you was suppose to be an elite d too. NYR gave pionk and a 1st. A year after pionk was already at the same level or better, they lost a 1st round for absolutly nothing and overpaid trouba at 8M.

If toronto give sandin amirov and a 1st for chychrun and sandin still developping and next season are already at the same level or better than chychrun ( because hes clearly have the potential for it), at the end we just lost amirov and a 1st pick for absolutly nothing. Some time the best move is to don't move

And what if Sandin turns out to be a Gostisbehere level player and Chychrun does become elite? Is losing a guy like Amirov who may never amount to anything more than a depth player and the 1st that's literally a crapshoot, really that bad?

 

[Fogelhund]

 

[Cor]

I really think Nick Ritchie will be moved shortly.

Calgary, Rangers are two teams I could see that have the cap space.